Burgold Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 He was also so good that ten years after leaving football he was able to come back and lead a Vinny Cerrato/Snyder built team twice to the playoffs and even won a game, something that other reportedly great coaches like Marty and Shanny failed to do. He also went 3-0, including a beatdown of a Superbowl rated Cowboys' team with a team of scabs, 90% of which never played a game after the strike. Joe Gibbs is, perhaps, the best leader of men in all of or any sport's history. Hell, I bet if he took a month off to study hockey he could guide a women's team to win the Stanley Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 49 minutes ago, Burgold said: He was also so good that ten years after leaving football he was able to come back and lead a Vinny Cerrato/Snyder built team twice to the playoffs and even won a game, something that other reportedly great coaches like Marty and Shanny failed to do. Sigh. Sorry Burg, (and I know this isn't really your overall point in the thread), but you should really leave this part out to make your point. Because it again illustrates the inability of many folks to evaluate Gibbs 2 completely independently of Gibbs 1. Its a double-edged sword. The accomplishments of Gibbs 1 probably set the expectation of Gibbs 2 too high; however, having said that, the results of Gibbs 2 were pedestrian...….but only looks remotely good because the overall record of the Redskins over the past close-to-30 seasons now has been crap. Two good (not VERY good) seasons mixed in with two lousy seasons is not much to crow about in the grand scheme. And please don't bring Marty's name into this. The guy was given one whole year here, for God's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf3 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 The performance of the strike team merits a book solely devoted to its success and the methods Joe used. My guess is that part of it was due to planning and already having players identified. Maybe most of them even worked out on those Tuesday off days under the coaching staff so they already had a team in the works. Whatever, they were a pleasure to watch and the regulars owed them big time when they returned. Without them, no Super Bowl. Joe clearly regarded the strike games as simply an opportunity to win games, not as a setback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 The performance of the Gibbs 2.0 team here, given what came before and after, made me appreciate him more. He took a festering organization that even we the fans didn't truly know how decrepit and rotting it truly was and did what he did. He was never a personnel guy and better off not picking his own players. He had to also deal with guys (I'm looking right at you, Portis) going to the owner to get whatever he wanted. He wouldn't complain. Not his deal. We really had no idea how bad Ashburn was until over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 I’m with @ntotoro or he’s with me. Mike Shanahan is a borderline HOF coach, excluding the RGIII miracle year, he was a 5-11 coach here. What Gibbs accomplished despite his rust and the Front Office is pretty remarkable when you compare it to every single other coach. More, you have to consider that Joe was not only well past his prime, but 10 years completely removed from the game. Given that, the fact that he still made his team a playoff contender 50% of the time deserves a tip of the cap. Don’t get suckered by the Peter King hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hp703 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 hours ago, Burgold said: Hell, I bet if he took a month off to study hockey he could guide a women's team to win the Stanley Cup. Calm down buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_HOG Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 hours ago, Burgold said: He was also so good that ten years after leaving football he was able to come back and lead a Vinny Cerrato/Snyder built team twice to the playoffs and even won a game, something that other reportedly great coaches like Marty and Shanny failed to do. He also went 3-0, including a beatdown of a Superbowl rated Cowboys' team with a team of scabs, 90% of which never played a game after the strike. Joe Gibbs is, perhaps, the best leader of men in all of or any sport's history. Hell, I bet if he took a month off to study hockey he could guide a women's team to win the Stanley Cup. Gibbs has 5 Nascar Championships not 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, UK_HOG said: Gibbs has 5 Nascar Championships not 3. Thanks for the correction. Five championships. Three drivers. 16 minutes ago, hp703 said: Calm down buddy. You're right. It'd probably only take a week of film study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hp703 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, Burgold said: Thanks for the correction. Five championships. Three drivers. You're right. It'd probably only take a week of film study. The hard-on for Gibbs is quite ridiculous and people keep bringing up Nascar like that has anything to do with being a good football coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, hp703 said: The hard-on for Gibbs is quite ridiculous and people keep bringing up Nascar like that has anything to do with being a good football coach. You misunderstand the thrust of this thread. His NASCAR successes has nothing to do with him being a great football coach. It does have something to do with him being a great motivator, leader, and coach. It's pretty rare for an athlete to be successful in two sports at the highest level. It's equally rare (or moreso) for a coach to be successful in two completely different sports at the highest level. To have climbed the mountain and been among the best and Hall of Fame worthy in two completely distinct fields is impressive. I picked hockey as a joke, but I could have just as easily picked rhythmic gymnastics. Given a month or two of study, Gibbs could probably coach up several gold medal winning gymnasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Burgold said: I’m with @ntotoro or he’s with me. Mike Shanahan is a borderline HOF coach, excluding the RGIII miracle year, he was a 5-11 coach here. What Gibbs accomplished despite his rust and the Front Office is pretty remarkable when you compare it to every single other coach. More, you have to consider that Joe was not only well past his prime, but 10 years completely removed from the game. Given that, the fact that he still made his team a playoff contender 50% of the time deserves a tip of the cap. Don’t get suckered by the Peter King hate. No argument that Shanahan era has arguably been the most disappointing one of the Snyder era, even moreso than Spurrier. And no doubt that even in his second stint, Gibbs exhibited solid leadership, particularly in the wake of the Taylor tragedy. I don't get the Peter King comment. Art Monk being left out of the HOF for longer than he should've been has nothing to do with 2004-2007. And its sadly predictable that anyone who questions the notion that Gibbs 2 was a success is labeled a "hater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, hail2skins said: No argument that Shanahan era has arguably been the most disappointing one of the Snyder era, even moreso than Spurrier. And no doubt that even in his second stint, Gibbs exhibited solid leadership, particularly in the wake of the Taylor tragedy. I don't get the Peter King comment. Art Monk being left out of the HOF for longer than he should've been has nothing to do with 2004-2007. And its sadly predictable that anyone who questions the notion that Gibbs 2 was a success is labeled a "hater." I think it was Peter King who at the start of Gibbs II proclaimed that his second stint would prove him to be an "Ordinary Joe." It was one of the SI writers in any case. The point being that there are a lot of writer's out there who go out of their way to downplay the or downgrade Redskins' players and coaches. This is the reason why a team that went to four Superbowls in ten years, winning three, has fewer HOFers than teams from the same era with much, much worse results. Hard to believe that the only players deserving of recognition are Gibbs, Riggo, Green, Monk, and Grimm. Yet in discussions of great teams or great players, the 'skins are routinely shafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, Burgold said: I think it was Peter King who at the start of Gibbs II proclaimed that his second stint would prove him to be an "Ordinary Joe." It was one of the SI writers in any case. The point being that there are a lot of writer's out there who go out of their way to downplay the or downgrade Redskins' players and coaches. This is the reason why a team that went to four Superbowls in ten years, winning three, has fewer HOFers than teams from the same era with much, much worse results. Hard to believe that the only players deserving of recognition are Gibbs, Riggo, Green, Monk, and Grimm. Yet in discussions of great teams or great players, the 'skins are routinely shafted. I think the "Ordinary Joe" comment was from Len Pasquerelli, who at the time was with CBS Sports. No argument that more Gibbs 1 players should be in the HOF. And no argument that Gibbs is a great leader. But Gibbs 2, IMO, is irrelevant to both. And criticism of the Gibbs 2 record is not really a slam against Joe, who I'm sure worked as hard as he did during his first stint. For the organization (and this is not only in hindsight, but stepping back from the euphoria after he was hired), at the time it wasn't the move the organization should've made, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 It wasn't Peter Queen. It was Lenny Pasquarelli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 No other coach in the NFL has done what Gibbs has done. Some have more titles in the NFL but i dont think anyone has sniffed it across multiple sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 3 hours ago, hail2skins said: No argument that Shanahan era has arguably been the most disappointing one of the Snyder era, even moreso than Spurrier. I wouldn't give the euphemistic phrase disappointment to SOS compared to Shanahan. SOS was what I call a question mark at the time of hire, at best kind of like a high draft pick you hope will be the man but there really is no way to be sure. Shanny came in as a guy who had won 2 SBs as a HC and one as an OC, 7 10+ win seasons with 3 different QBs (Elway, Griese and Plummer), 9 non-losing seasons out of 14 and had found the best UDFA WR ever, an elite RB in the 6th round and turned a career back up WR into a 1000 yard guy. He was not a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Fair statement DT. From an expectation point of view, Shanny was the bigger disappointment. I place Spurrier as a more personal disappointment for the way he just mailed it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 12 hours ago, Burgold said: He was also so good that ten years after leaving football he was able to come back and lead a Vinny Cerrato/Snyder built team twice to the playoffs and even won a game, something that other reportedly great coaches like Marty and Shanny failed to do. He also went 3-0, including a beatdown of a Superbowl rated Cowboys' team with a team of scabs, 90% of which never played a game after the strike. Joe Gibbs is, perhaps, the best leader of men in all of or any sport's history. Hell, I bet if he took a month off to study hockey he could guide a women's team to win the Stanley Cup. I wanna see Coach Joe in the corner of a boxing ring ala Clint Eastwood in Million Dollar Baby.....no doubt that fighter would be a champion. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Burgold said: I think it was Peter King who at the start of Gibbs II proclaimed that his second stint would prove him to be an "Ordinary Joe." It was one of the SI writers in any case. The point being that there are a lot of writer's out there who go out of their way to downplay the or downgrade Redskins' players and coaches. This is the reason why a team that went to four Superbowls in ten years, winning three, has fewer HOFers than teams from the same era with much, much worse results. Hard to believe that the only players deserving of recognition are Gibbs, Riggo, Green, Monk, and Grimm. Yet in discussions of great teams or great players, the 'skins are routinely shafted. It's beyond ridiculous....but it adds to Gibbs greatness that he accomplished what he did without a roster full of hall of fame players. No doubt the strike year Super Bowls are holding back some of our HOF caliber players. What other franchise has been to 4 Super Bowls and had so few hall of famers? Shame on the jackass writers for not recognizing players like Joe Jacoby, Gary Clark and others....I remember getting Jim Lachey and how dominant he was....so was Wilbur Marshall when he came from the Bears. Those two were game changing additions for the Skins. Is Charles Mann Hall of Fame worthy? I'll tell you who is that will never be recognized.....Joe Bugel, architect of the greatest offensive line in NFL history. I ****in hate Peter King! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedBNG Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 I can certainly grasp the actual concept of Gibbs being the greatest coach in sports history, with his well-known success in the NFL, and also being a big success in NASCAR. Gibbs is a man with incredible knowledge and desire to be the best; he has done this! His NFL abilities to utilize average Joes and convince them to run through and eat brick walls, then watching the players actually do it. Matt Millen said he was the most psychologically aware coach he's ever been around; that says a lot, especially when he was with Bill Walsh { whom I actually find a little over-rated }. But here's the rub; Gibbs had the concept of surrounding himself with the best assistant coaches he could get. By far, Gibbs had more assistants than any other team in the league, and that gave his players the ability to really get into the dirty details of a position and learn more about the position and strategy. I recall first hearing about " influence blocking", where an o-lineman would position himself a certain way to make his opponent believe he was going to block a certain way or move to a certain area in his lane, thus steering the d-lineman exactly where the o-lineman wanted him to go, thus taking the d-lineman out of the play. But to the basics, Gibbs, taking 3 different QBs to win 3 Super Bowls, speaks volume to his success. There are coaches out these who only went to 1 Super Bowl, and in some cases, NO SUPER BOWLS, yet they are in the HOF. Notoriety and attention is what gets attention in today's society. People like Gibbs, who let their work dictate their success and are not vocal guys on every pre-game show out there, are mostly forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 7 hours ago, skins island connection said: But here's the rub; Gibbs had the concept of surrounding himself with the best assistant coaches he could get. There are two things to that. I think one aspect of being a great coach is putting together a great coaching staff. In NASCAR, too, i bet it isn't only about the driver. That said, while Joe put together a fantastic staff Bugel, Henning, Pettibone, etc. It's remarkable how little success any of them had away from Joe. Joe's coaching tree is actually pretty small whereas you can make an argument that Bill Walsh had many head coaches in waiting. Joe made his assistants rise and be great, but they were never quite great without Joe. Even stranger, Jay Gruden likely will have a tremendous coaching legacy despite his inability to succeed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profusion Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 There is no honest way to evaluate who's "the best" NFL coach of all time. No man is an island. I'd certainly put Gibbs in the discussion with Belichick, Lombardi, Brown, Parcells, Landry, Walsh, Shula and Halas. Part of the problem in evaluating Gibbs in that context is that he didn't coach as long as most of those guys. All coaches have ups and downs. If Gibbs hadn't burned out so soon, I believe his subsequent career would silence doubters. I don't count the NASCAR stuff. He's an executive there, not a coach. Impressive, but not relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cakmoney61 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Three Super Bowls, with three different average to good QBs and basically three different teams, is unheard of. I can easily see Gibbs as the best coach of all time. He is absolutely in the discussion. To say that someone is without a doubt better is quite debatable as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Especially considering nobody from those teams can get into the HOF. Hell even our few hofers didnt play in most of the SB's or those playoffs. Riggins retired before the last 2. Green wasn't around for the first 1. Grimm was injured or wasn't a starter anymore for the last 2 runs. Monk missed at least 2 of the SB's and playoffs also. Jacoby started 16 games and all the playoffs every year just about but he's apparently not worthy of the HOF according to the imbeciles running the selections so it must have been all about Gibbs. We had nobody there for all of the runs, at any position on the football field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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