FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[volsmet]

On 6/27/2020 at 8:22 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Here are the other NFC East team rankins according to PFF.  I think we are another off season from leapfrogging most of them.  But I agree at this time all three rivals have better teams on paper.  Cowboys arguably had the best draft in the NFL this year, at least on paper.  I love Kyle Smith but I'd concede that will McClay might be the best personnel guy in the NFL.  Gettleman for all his buffoonish statements has quietly had really good drafts IMO.  IMO their interior D line is as good as ours, PFF thinks its better than ours.  So thankfully we ended up with Chase and not them.  It feels to me that the Eagles' window is the shortest in the division but I give them that they are consistently good at fielding a strong D line and O line. 

 

There isn’t a human working in the nfl, including Gettleman, who would take their front 4 - or front 5 - over ours. The Giants are atrocious.

 

*

150:1 on the Skins to win the SB, let’s go Mr Charles, we need to keep DH up.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Have you seen the Philly Voice "10 reasons each NFC East team will be a dumpsterfire" series?  They're fun.  

https://www.phillyvoice.com/10-reasons-eagles-will-be-dumpster-fire-season-2020/

https://www.phillyvoice.com/10-reasons-giants-will-be-dumpster-fire-season-2020/

https://www.phillyvoice.com/10-reasons-cowboys-will-be-dumpster-fire-season-2020/

https://www.phillyvoice.com/10-reasons-washington-team-will-be-dumpster-fire-season-2020/

 

Thanks for the articles.  These comments below were painful to read  😪

 

The comment about the Redskins not just being bad but boring and have become irrelevant.  That to me is the hallmark of the Bruce Allen regime.  I think overall he was worse than Vinny for that reason.  Boring-sleazy and irrelevant.  

 

It's part of the reason though why I am optimistic about what we got cooking now.  I think the Rivera-Kyle Smith era is going to be light years ahead of their predecessors.  And i was far from a Jay hater.  But I do think Rivera is a leader of men in a different strata.  And Kyle IMO will run the team much more competently and without the sleaze.  I think this season ends up bumpy but we reach greater heights after that. 

 

https://www.phillyvoice.com/10-reasons-giants-will-be-dumpster-fire-season-2020/

Thank God for the Washington team, who the Giants have beaten 8 out of their last 12 meetings. Actually, take away those Washington games, and the Giants are 27-57 (0.321) over the last six years.

 

1) Who cares about this team outside of DMV?

 

...So, they're really, really, really, really bad. I know it. You know it. We all know it. There's no new ground being covered here. Like, when the schedules came out and fans were trying to figure out their teams' records for the season, I'm sure that even Giants fans and their trash team were chalking up a sweep over Washington.

Anyway, they're not just bad, they're boring, and their roster is littered with Mitchell Friedmans.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, volsmet said:

There isn’t a human working in the nfl, including Gettleman, who would take their front 4 - or front 5 - over ours. The Giants are atrocious.

 

*

150:1 on the Skins to win the SB, let’s go Mr Charles, we need to keep DH up.

 

 

 

I wouldn't either.  And I didn't say otherwise.  But PFF have alluded before that they would take their interior D line.  i don't think i would albeit Lawrence, Tomlinson, BJ Hill are a really good trio.  PFF digs them because they rate them high -- if I recall all three of them were rated higher by them over all of our D lineman.   Personally, I'd take our 3 at D line.   But I do think their interior D line goes unnoticed by some even though they are pretty good.  I haven't watched them closely last year but I recall the year before i was impressed with how Tomlinson for example handled our interior O line.   They got some big men up the middle who can stuff the run.  Their defense by Football Outsiders ranked 7th against the run.  We were 24th.   The Giants D issue is the pass rush and secondary. 

 

Part of my constant whining on the draft thread last year when the Giants were poised for a period to land Chase Young was he was a perfect fit for them because they have the interior D line but are desperate for a dude on the other side of Marcus Golden who got 10 sacks for them last year.  L. Carter hasn't really developed for them. 

 

Fortunately, we landed Chase and not them.  And mostly but not entirely for that reason, i'd take our D line overall over theirs by a mile.  And to me Chase Young will be the bandleader of the D line.   He won't just complement the guys we got -- but will be the standout star among them.  IMO he will be the best player we got on the D line from day 1.   Defensive rookie of the year -- bank on it.  😀

 

 

[Cooleyfan1993]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

https://www.phillyvoice.com/10-reasons-giants-will-be-dumpster-fire-season-2020/

Thank God for the Washington team, who the Giants have beaten 8 out of their last 12 meetings. Actually, take away those Washington games, and the Giants are 27-57 (0.321) over the last six years.

Jeez, they’ve beaten us 8 out of the last 12 meetings? That doesn’t SOUND correct to me, even though i know it is. (Does that sound right?)

 

2014

Week 4: L 45-14 (0-1)

Week 15: L 24-13 (0-2)

 

2015

Week 3: L 32-21 (0-3)

Week 12: W 20–14 (1-3)

 

2016

Week 3: W 29-27 (2-3)

Week 17: L 19-10 (2-4)

 

2017

Week 12: W 20-10 (3-4)

Week 17: L 18-10 (3-5)

 

2018

Week 8: W 20-13 (4-5)

Week 14: L 40-16 (4-6)

 

2019

Week 4: L 24-3 (4-7)

Week 16: L 41-35 (4-8)

Yep, that stat is correct. I guess I just had it in my head that we’ve been better against them in recent years, but that might just be because for what seems like an eternity, before the gruden years, they’d sweep us consistently 😂

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Yep, that stat is correct. I guess I just had it in my head that we’ve been better against them in recent years, but that might just be because for what seems like an eternity, before the gruden years, they’d sweep us consistently 😂

 

 

Yeah I recall how the Giants used to own us head to head.  They don't to the same degree now but it's still pretty dominant with them winning 66.66% of the time against us in recent years.   Heck even during the Gibbs years the Giants were somewhat the thorn in the mix.

 

I've made this point many times but I don't think there is a team's players, fans, media who disrespect the Redskins more than the Giants.  Many examples of it.  Among them years back a Giants reporter said the players told them the low point of the season was losing to the Redskins because that's a team they own so its unacceptable.  A couple players who played for both teams said when they were with the Giants that the Giants never respected the Redskins and always expected to beat them. 

 

You had the A. Rolle comment about how they'd beat the Redskins 99 times out of 100.  On and on.   The infamous game where they knocked us out of the playoffs when they already clinched in 2016 -- I recall all week leading up to it how the Giants were rallying under the cause of knocking the Redskins out of the playoffs.  It made the NY papers.  And hardly rested anyone in that meaningless game and looked more fired up than the Redskins were.  I recall leading to that game I commented on it on the game thread but some posters blew that off as hollow rhetoric from the Giants and don't expected them to come with their A game in a meaningless game.  Apparently the Redskins coaches felt the same judging by their comments after the game.  But they underestimated how much the Giants enjoy pummeling them if they can.

 

But yet for some reason from what I can tell its hardest for Redskins fans to hate the Giants among our NFC East foes the same way as the Eagles and Cowboys.  And that was the case even before the Giants got really bad of late.  It's been one of my rallying cries in the game threads when we play against them. 

[Riggo#44]

55 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But yet for some reason from what I can tell its hardest for Redskins fans to hate the Giants among our NFC East foes the same way as the Eagles and Cowboys.  And that was the case even before the Giants got really bad of late.  It's been one of my rallying cries in the game threads when we play against them. 

 

I want to stomp a mudhole in the ass of the Giants. They've lost more games than any other team the last 3 years, but act like they have Eli's prime. Go check the responses to an AMA Landon Collins did a couple months back--all Giants fans did was talk **** about their win in December that cost them Chase Young. Stupid.

 

I am pretty excited about the Skins coming up--we won't contend for a playoff spot, but we'll be better than what most people think.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I want to stomp a mudhole in the ass of the Giants. They've lost more games than any other team the last 3 years, but act like they have Eli's prime. Go check the responses to an AMA Landon Collins did a couple months back--all Giants fans did was talk **** about their win in December that cost them Chase Young. Stupid.

 

I am pretty excited about the Skins coming up--we won't contend for a playoff spot, but we'll be better than what most people think.

 

To me getting Chase was huge and I think will be the tipping point eventually between us and the Giants.   That game was the only time I could bear to root for the Giants.   Lose the battle to win the war.  Like I said in a previous post here, the Giants IMO have an underrated interior D line.  Their edge rush though is bad.  Chase could have done a lot for them.  Thankfully, we don't have to worry about it and he's playing for us. 

 

Yeah the Giant fans have some odd arrogance about them.  They bemoan Gettleman the way many here bemoaned Bruce -- so some of them feel battered.    Yet, they have had a superiority vibe about them especially in the context of the Redskins that is very annoying.  I recall a NY reporter (can't remember the year but it wasn't that long ago) who once laughed on air when asked if the Redskins have a chance to beat the Giants that day.   

 

From what I've observed no team in the NFC East has more of a culture of feeling superior to the Redskins than the NY Giants.  I recall Max Kellerman from First Take, avid Giants guy, saying in one segment that Giant fans thank the football gods for the Redskins being in their division because even in the toughest years at least they can beat them.    For these and other reasons I hate the Giants every bit as much as the other NFC East times, sometimes even more.  😀

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Riggo#44]

I hate agreeing with Bucky Brooks, but there is talent on this team, and for the first time in 15-ish years, we have a legitimate coaching staff. This is the best DC we've had since 2007, at least (albeit a very low bar). Although I think we're getting away from Dwayne Haskins discussion.

[OVCChairman]

8 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

I hate agreeing with Bucky Brooks, but there is talent on this team, and for the first time in 15-ish years, we have a legitimate coaching staff. This is the best DC we've had since 2007, at least (albeit a very low bar). Although I think we're getting away from Dwayne Haskins discussion.

 

 

I agree with you about all the things you mentioned... and not one time did you say Chase Young.

 

This is such a frustrating hot take because it's taking Chase Young and elevating expectations around this team to those that are not likely, or reasonable.  The way it's framed, in this little spot, the success and failure of the Washington Redskins hinges on Young and that's not fair to him or the team.  They MENTION the fact that we have 5 first round picks on the D-line, but it is done in passing.   

 

If we had decided to NOT take Chase Young, this team still likely takes a big step forward because of the things you pointed out.  Young is a factor, not the reason, that this team likely will be much improved over last year.  i wish stuff like this didnt come out because it's just setting up Young to be a let down if he doesn't become a HOF player... he's almost reaching a level where being a really good no. 2 overall pick isn't good enough.   

[Warhead36]

I mean there is a precedence for Super Bowl winning teams being built around strong pass rushes. Von Miller's Broncos. The Eagles with Fletcher Cox. The Giants two wins in the Eli era were mostly because of their DL/pass rush. Then you have teams that get there but don't win like the 9ers this year, or Aaron Donald and the Rams the year before(though they also had a great offense obviously).

[OVCChairman]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean there is a precedence for Super Bowl winning teams being built around strong pass rushes. Von Miller's Broncos. The Eagles with Fletcher Cox. The Giants two wins in the Eli era were mostly because of their DL/pass rush. Then you have teams that get there but don't win like the 9ers this year, or Aaron Donald and the Rams the year before(though they also had a great offense obviously).

 

 

Ok, so have your hit be about JDR and the fact that he's going to have a very talented D-line that Young is a member of... not "Chase Young = Elite means Redskins = Super Bowl"

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

150:1

 

Too much to pass, even if a top 3 pick is far more likely than a Sb appearance. Bucky gives the time frame of a couple years, but that’s the case for any team, even a Miami squad that tried to gut its roster. 

[wit33]

Are we all not all on the same page of expecting Chase Young to be a hall of famer? 
 

Some dudes come with different set of expectations and Young qualifies. It appears in my short time of observing from a fans view he has similar expectations. 

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

Are we all not all on the same page of expecting Chase Young to be a hall of famer? 
 

Some dudes come with different set of expectations and Young qualifies. It appears in my short time of observing from a fans view he has similar expectations. 

 

 

 

A lot has to happen for someone to become a HOF player.

I think Young, like Sean Taylor, has the physical skillset to make it happen.

It would APPEAR he's got the right mindset.

 

He also hasn't played a down in the NFL.  I certainly HOPE he is able to have a career that HOF worthy, but i think we need to cool the jets on some of this stuff because he's still a rookie.  The potential may be there, but there is a really long road to the HOF.  You know who else had all those tools?  Lavar Arrington, and he'll never be considered imho for the HOF.  It didn't come together for him.  

[Conn]

It's insane to "expect" any player to be a HOFer. 

[wit33]

1 minute ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

 

A lot has to happen for someone to become a HOF player.

I think Young, like Sean Taylor, has the physical skillset to make it happen.

It would APPEAR he's got the right mindset.

 

He also hasn't played a down in the NFL.  I certainly HOPE he is able to have a career that HOF worthy, but i think we need to cool the jets on some of this stuff because he's still a rookie.  The potential may be there, but there is a really long road to the HOF.  You know who else had all those tools?  Lavar Arrington, and he'll never be considered imho for the HOF.  It didn't come together for him.  

My point being most were disappointed or the least underwhelmed with Lavars career. 
 

If Young has a similar career I’d be disappointed. Understand, I can careless about the dude personally nor does he me, so he’ll be just fine with my disappointment and 60-80mil earned lol

 

Im hoping and bordering on expecting pro bowl type impact his rookie season. 

[Est.1974]

Just now, ConnSKINS26 said:

It's insane to "expect" any player to be a HOFer. 

Was just about to post something similar. I agree, especially before they’ve played a down in pro football.

[wit33]

1 minute ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

It's insane to "expect" any player to be a HOFer. 

What are your statistical expectations for Chase young over 10 years? 
 

Unless we’re going to operate in the world of not expecting anything at all due to all the evidence of past busts. 

[OVCChairman]

11 minutes ago, wit33 said:

My point being most were disappointed or the least underwhelmed with Lavars career. 
 

If Young has a similar career I’d be disappointed. Understand, I can careless about the dude personally nor does he me, so he’ll be just fine with my disappointment and 60-80mil earned lol

 

Im hoping and bordering on expecting pro bowl type impact his rookie season. 

 

 

I get that, and the 'hope' or 'expectation' is that anyone taken no. 2 overall is an elite level player that changes the dynamic of your team.  Day 1 Chase Young does that.  You hope he is able to do it well enough, for long enough to get there, but there are A LOT of damn good football players not currently in the HOF for one reason or another.  Again... Sean Taylor being an example of that.  

 

I guess i just want to not set the bar at HOF because it's so unique and rare, that a REALLY good player could be looked at as a disappointment, despite the fact that they're a really good player.  

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

I do worry about Dwayne throwing to a bunch of new WRs every week given the current environment... 

[Conn]

31 minutes ago, wit33 said:

What are your statistical expectations for Chase young over 10 years? 
 

Unless we’re going to operate in the world of not expecting anything at all due to all the evidence of past busts. 

 

I hope for many years of play on a spectrum between Pro Bowl and All-Pro performance, honestly. 

 

But a HOF career requires so many factors to come together. Uncommon longevity and league-wide impact to go along with the elite production is part of it.

 

It's unrealistic enough to expect any draft pick gives you multiple All-Pro seasons. I repeat that it's absolute insanity to expect an overall HOF-level career. 

[wit33]

2 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

I hope for many years of play on a spectrum between Pro Bowl and All-Pro performance, honestly. 

 

But a HOF career requires so many factors to come together. Uncommon longevity and league-wide impact to go along with the elite production is part of it.

 

It's unrealistic enough to expect any draft pick gives you multiple All-Pro seasons. I repeat that it's absolute insanity to expect an overall HOF-level career. 

 

Hope can lead to disappointment, so we’re not far apart. Pro bowls and All pros sound good to me— we agree! 
 

Sure, odds say he won’t be a hall of famer, but damn the odds is how I roll in life and as a now supporter of Young. 
 

Wouldn’t attributing any level of expectations be “insane” just by sheer math? I do have different expectations for freaks and he qualifies. For example, I didn’t have the same expectations for Kerrigan and he’s been a good Skins player, but I’d be underwhelmed if Young has a similar impact/career numbers as Kerrigan. 

 

Splitting hairs, we both hope he becomes a Hall of Famer. Go Skins!
 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

Wait, you lived with Dwayne last season? 

I didn’t have a home in Virginia as soon as we got back from [training camp in Richmond]. When we came back to Ashburn, we had a few weeks before camp was over, so I stayed with Dwayne for around a month.

 

What was that like? 

It was fun. Dwayne, he loves football, just like me. All he wants to do is watch football, talk football and work. I was on his schedule [because I didn’t have a car], so we were up early. I was [at Redskins Park] on a quarterback’s schedule, so I was there before other receivers were. I feel like that was a blessing in disguise.

 

This offseason, you’ve continued working with Dwayne and wide receivers Terry McLaurin and Kelvin Harmon. What have you seen from those guys?

It’s like we never left [Redskins Park]. Timing, chemistry, everything — it’s going very well. We’re running smooth, calling plays from the new offense. You see Dwayne’s leadership out here. We’re just a bunch of guys playing pickup with routes. … [If anyone messes up], he’s telling guys, “I don’t like the energy.” He said that yesterday.

 

To see that in Dwayne, that’s big for me. That’s what I saw from him late [last] year, correcting [former left tackle] Donald Penn in the huddle. He’s telling him, “Hey, Penn, shut up. I’ve got to say this play, [and] you’re sitting here going back and forth with the refs. We got to move on. We got a whole new play coming. A whole new clock is started and already running.” It’s good to see those things, that leadership and chemistry.

 

How has your rapport developed with Dwayne?

We have been working on that. [Last year], Dwayne overthrew me on some passes. I was running hard, but I feel like I underestimated Dwayne’s arm and he threw it to lead me away from the defenders. If we miss a big play or a big catch, we just say it’s a big-money play. We left a lot of money out there on the field.

 

During your workouts, how does the new offense feel?

I'm not going to say it's easy, because we're all still going through some of the basics, but it's more simple. We're on the number system. The offense of last year, everybody's getting tagged, the formations, the motions, this and that. It was a lot more complex.

 

How have you prepared for a larger role?

My conditioning, getting in better shape to play maybe 90 plays in a game. Last year, I saw it out of Terry. He might’ve ran 60 routes in a game. Just a crazy amount of wear-and-tear.

 

It could be tough if you have to balance a bigger offensive role and special teams.

I don’t think it’s different. I’m ready for whatever. We have a new staff, so that makes it even more in my head, like, “These guys didn’t watch you practice for a whole year last year.” They don’t know. … What I’ve done up to now means nothing. I have to prove myself again.

 

The only small receiver Ron Rivera ever had was Steve Smith. When my agent called and told me that, that was more motivation than I ever needed.

 

Wait, talk me through that. 

It wasn’t a bad talk. It was right after we signed [Cody] Latimer, right after the draft. It was like, [Rivera] brought in bigger bodies [at wide receiver]. I was like, “Okay, that’s what he likes.”

 

I’m not saying I’m on the cut block. I’m just saying: “Be different. Be another Steve Smith.” He started off the same guy. They only thought he was going to be a returner, and he’s a [potential] Hall of Famer. … He was a small guy who played big. He wasn’t going to limit himself to being 5-9.