Riggo#44 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, RandyHolt said: lets call it deer Heath in the headlights Yeah, I'm stealing that one. And you make great points. Jay can't be rigid. I like Jay, I think he's handcuffed by the two dickbags in the FO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I have to admit I want to believe this but not for the same reason that some others are hanging onto. The idea that some in the FO wanted Jones at #15 just gives me the chills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I have to admit I want to believe this but not for the same reason that some others are hanging onto. The idea that some in the FO wanted Jones at #15 just gives me the chills. We have always been at war with Eastasia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I see the pre-draft "lying season" hasn't ended. A lot of this can easily be fudged. Let's say 1/3rd liked Haskins, 1/3rd like Jones, 1/3 liked Lock. Some might have Jones as the Top Guy, but he can say something like "Jones was not the top rated QB by the franchise" and it would be true. Since despite some thinking he was #1, the majority did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I have to admit I want to believe this but not for the same reason that some others are hanging onto. The idea that some in the FO wanted Jones at #15 just gives me the chills. The rumor was it was people on the coaching staff who favoured Jones while the front office wanted Haskins. No idea if that is true or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Just now, MartinC said: The rumor was it was people on the coaching staff who favoured Jones while the front office wanted Haskins. No idea if that is true or not. Keim hinted very strongly on a podcast that so did Kyle. that it wasn't just Jay. I am not fixated on it because we don't know. I do believe the narrative that regardless of what Jay's position originally was -- he's excited to make things work with him. In other words, there is no tension about it. That would be my main concern one way or another. So I think all is cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said: Keim hinted very strongly on a podcast that so did Kyle. that it wasn't just Jay. People who get paid a lot of money and obviously know a lot more about football than I do seem to like Daniel Jones as a potential franchise QB. I have no idea why ... I agree with your take above re Haskins here though. I think everyone is on-board now. The tension is that Jay and the coaching staff are in a 'must win' year - that's not ideal in terms of developing a rookie QB or making decisions on who starts. I know many fans would hate it but we should really extend Jay, say 'We drafted a rookie QB we believe in and we believe you are the coach to develop him'. if they don't believe that he should not still be the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJacobyHOForRIOT Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 26 minutes ago, MartinC said: The rumor was it was people on the coaching staff who favoured Jones while the front office wanted Haskins. No idea if that is true or not. That scares me, really scares me and i hope its nothing more than gossip or false rumor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: That scares me, really scares me and i hope its nothing more than gossip or false rumor. I'm not sure it's a huge surprise though. Jones was coached in a purely pro-style offense by a pro-style coach who had generated pro QBs. The Ohio State offense was uniquely different this year to past years with Day and the mesh and a more sideline-to-sideline attack with a lot of pro-style passing complexity, reads and protections, but when you live in shotgun you have to learn drops and Jay had direct experience with RGIII and the difficulty of that with such a QB. Haskins won't have problems with progressions and protections and the passing tree so much as he will the timing of when his back foot hits at which step and the like, at least very early on. It would not be surprising of coaches would prefer a guy they'd have to coach less on the very basics. That said, I would not anticipate MANY feeling that way given the vast differential in all other apparent aspects of the game Jones was not as good at as Haskins. But, hell, you saw an entire organization prefer Jones to Haskins and how scared the Giants fans actually get to be by that reality. I wouldn't spend time worried about the possibility someone in our organization liked Jones more than Haskins as we don't have to deal with it because we have Haskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxJoe Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 25 minutes ago, MartinC said: I know many fans would hate it but we should really extend Jay, say 'We drafted a rookie QB we believe in and we believe you are the coach to develop him'. if they don't believe that he should not still be the coach. See, this very rational what you just said. If the FO had low-to-no trust in Jay Gruden coupled with the strong belief that they would draft one of the top four QBs, they would've likely fired Jay in January. So I agree they trust Jay with Haskins. But, I would wait a year to see the fruits of that development before I extend him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, JaxJoe said: See, this very rational what you just said. If the FO had low-to-no trust in Jay Gruden coupled with the strong belief that they would draft one of the top for QBs, they would've likely fired Jay in January. So I agree they trust Jay with Haskins. But, I would wait a year to see the fruits of that development before I extend him. But then Jay knows he is under pressure to win right now. And starting and developing a rookie QB means taking some lumps along the road that are not always conducive to winning. Extending Jay now and making clear you are judging him based on the longer term development of the QB and the team is the right thing to do. But there are a lot of Redskins fans who would disagree 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I have to admit I want to believe this but not for the same reason that some others are hanging onto. The idea that some in the FO wanted Jones at #15 just gives me the chills. Daniel Jones is not their kind of stupid. Their kind of stupid is trading up for the flashy secy guy like RG3 or even Haskins in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxJoe Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, MartinC said: But then Jay knows he is under pressure to win right now. And starting and developing a rookie QB means taking some lumps along the road that are not always conducive to winning. Extending Jay now and making clear you are judging him based on the longer term development of the QB and the team is the right thing to do. But there are a lot of Redskins fans who would disagree 🙂 Totally agree that this would be a good strategy. I think if I were GM though, I would verbalize that, but not contract-wise. Once I see a good rapport develop and obvious signs of progression, I’d put in ink. But, your absolutely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJacobyHOForRIOT Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, Art said: I wouldn't spend time worried about the possibility someone in our organization liked Jones more than Haskins as we don't have to deal with it because we have Haskins. Yeah but this already happened in 2012 my friend, Only this time we didn't draft Kirk Cousins in the 4th round..... 😨 Its not even fair to Haskins if this is the truth, Poor kid would be walking into a situation where the coaches don't believe he could lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 23 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said: I don't think he has quick feet in the pocket, rather he's a pro-active shuffler, if that makes sense. He never stays on spot, he knows protections and blitz lanes, so knows where pressure is likely coming from and starts drifting away from that. Depending on the type of QB you are, that could wind up being more valuable than a QB with quick feet who only reacts to pressure felt instead of that and knowing where pressure would likely come from anyways. Innate spatial awareness is a big part of this too and his is very advanced especially considering his experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Also, I wouldnt sweat it even if we knew for sure that they liked Jones better. We didnt trade up for him, and unless that is because the FO said no, then its a moot point. We didnt get the first pick in the draft. So that means that every pick we took, has the possibility of not being THE guy at his position for us, but THE guy available at the position for us. Its how the draft works. Example being, we would have taken Sequon Barkley if he would have been available with our first pick last year. He wasn't so we didn't. We took the Guise because he was available at out spot. Its the exact same concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Just now, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: Yeah but this already happened in 2012 my friend, Only this time we didn't draft Kirk Cousins in the 4th round..... 😨 Its not even fair to Haskins if this is the truth, Poor kid would be walking into a situation where the coaches don't believe he could lead. Having a preference for another QB (for whatever reason) does not equate to not also rating another QB highly or believing he's not a potential franchise QB. It's not a zero sum equation. I don't get any sense that there is an issue about the coaches not wanting Haskins at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: Yeah but this already happened in 2012 my friend, Only this time we didn't draft Kirk Cousins in the 4th round..... 😨 Its not even fair to Haskins if this is the truth, Poor kid would be walking into a situation where the coaches don't believe he could lead. There are very few coaches that are talented enough to pick their own players in the NFL. Gruden is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJacobyHOForRIOT Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Just now, MartinC said: Having a preference for another QB (for whatever reason) does not equate to not also rating another QB highly or believing he's not a potential franchise QB. It's not a zero sum equation. I don't get any sense that there is an issue about the coaches not wanting Haskins at this point. O ok, well thats good to know then, thank you. 1 minute ago, Llevron said: There are very few coaches that are talented enough to pick their own players in the NFL. Gruden is not one of them. So you value Bruce Allen, Doug Williams & Dan Snyder over the coaches when it comes to evaluating talent ? Not being sarcastic , Im genuinely asking a question. I'm not even sure who i would trust more to be honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: Yeah but this already happened in 2012 my friend, Only this time we didn't draft Kirk Cousins in the 4th round..... 😨 Its not even fair to Haskins if this is the truth, Poor kid would be walking into a situation where the coaches don't believe he could lead. I'm not sure what that means. I suspect we'd have taken Luck over RGIII if given either as an option but only RGIII was an option in 2012 and was the obvious selection as led by Shanny, who believed he could win with RGII, and, frankly DID. There were stretches where the league was unsure how it would ever stop THAT offense. The reality was injury would and when Shanny ran RGIII into the ground, he didn't fully believe RGIII was a different kind of QB. Our coaches don't have any doubt that Haskins can play in a passing system. None at all. There were BASIC concerns RGIII couldn't. Unlike Haskins RGIII not only played only shotgun, but also was a single read offensive system. Haskins actually had to read the field and progress. No one would here is worried he can't do that. He's a pure pocket passer, as is Jones, with the difference being one guy played well and one guy didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I've been seeing a lot of chatter that one concern with Haskins was his weight. When watching his pro day he looked gassed. Does anyone know if he has a hard time controlling weight and being in shape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: So you value Bruce Allen, Doug Williams & Dan Snyder over the coaches when it comes to evaluating talent ? Not being sarcastic , Im genuinely asking a question. I'm not even sure who i would trust more to be honest Naw thats a fair question. Im assuming there are are other people involved in scouting with the Redskins. And I assume that they are a part of making the draft board. If they make Haskins the #2 then I would trust that over Gruden. And yea I would trust Doug to make some decisions, including this one, over Gruden. Dont get me wrong I dont trust either much. Dan and Bruce are there because we cant make them leave. I reserve the right to be wrong about any of this stuff lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJacobyHOForRIOT Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Just now, HigSkin said: I've been seeing a lot of chatter that one concern with Haskins was his weight. When watching his pro day he looked gassed. Does anyone know if he has a hard time controlling weight and being in shape? Meh we do better with fat QB's its part of Redskins history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I am also fat. So if Haskins doesnt work out...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJacobyHOForRIOT Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Although my previous post was comedy I'm not concerned with Haskins weight, He is a QB for christ sake and a pocket passer. As long as his arm & brain is functional im good. Look at Big Ben, he has been out of shape for years and always delivers for the steelers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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