Next Day Thread: Redskins vs. Giants

[KDawg]

Here we are. 0-4.

 

Not a lot to take away from yesterday, to be honest. There weren't many positive plays occurring for the Redskins. 

 

To start, the Redskins technically began the game without three of their projected starting 5 offensive linemen, their top receiver and their starting running back (Guice) on the offensive side. This is already a recipe for issues and it continues on the theme that we have seen here time and time again: injured players being relied upon not being available. Before the game even began the team found themselves in an uphill climb.

 

The losing itself isn't particularly an issue in my eyes. The team has needed a season like this for awhile now to allow them a chance at some top tier talent in the draft and to hit the reset button a little bit. The way this team loses, though, is actually fun and exciting to view every week as they find new ways to amaze us.

 

I'm not against Gruden accepting the holding penalty after the third down stop. It was actually, in my opinion, the right decision as far as just smart football is concerned. The Giants are in field goal position. Accepting the penalty puts them out of range. The problem, though, was that this is the Washington Redskins and what's technically the best football decision may not be the best decision for this team. And that, in a nutshell, is one of the most maddening things about this streak. We are so unconventional in the ways we go about things.

 

The loser mentality has completely permeated the franchise and is rotting it from inside. I know the common thought around here is that this team is talent deprived and the team has no chance for success. But this team has talent. It's not A+ talent. It may not even be B+ talent, but it has enough talent to be more competitive. But the base of our pyramid is cracked and its tough to overcome anything when that happens.

 

When I say the base is cracked, I refer to the structural pyramid. The Front Office/Executive Level is the bottom of the pyramid... or the base. The coaches, players and even fans are higher up. You can survive the cracks in the upper tiers of the pyramid because your structure can stay strong. But if the base is cracking, the whole thing can crumble under the weight. This is a team that is crumbling.

 

If the plan all along was to lose this season and to acquire a top draft pick, the tone of Redskin Nation would be different. People wouldn't be so apathetic. People would probably be on board. The main issue was Bruce Allen's statements saying that this team was close. Talent wise they are probably close. But again, the best ability is availability and we haven't seen that on teams in any recent time frame. 

 

Gruden may be a decent coach... As a coordinator, head coach, whatever. We really don't know. And sometimes I wonder if he makes some of these horrendous decisions just because the Redskins are like the childhood game of opposite day. I'm not sure how successful he can be elsewhere, but I do know its difficult to judge his ability based on his time here. I'm sure I have more thoughts that weren't covered above, but we'll start there and see where the thread takes us.

 

Studs:

 

Tress Way - ***

 

That's it.

 

Duds:

 

Bruce Allen - "we're close" -

Injuries -

Gruden -

 

Season Totals:

 

 

Terry McLaurin - 8x*

Tress Way - 4x*

Daron Payne - 3x*

Inside LBs - 2x*

Paul Richardson - 2x*

Vernon Davis, Keenum, fans who left - 1x*

Injuries - 2x

Right Side of OL/Callahan - 3x 

Secondary Minus Collins - 3x

Jay Gruden -6x

Greg Manusky - 6x 

Bruce Allen -7x

 

[sempre_victrix]

I'm mostly curious if anything will change.  Otherwise, I'm apathetic.

 

If Dan doesn't fire someone high up this week, it only proves that he's an imbecile or just doesn't care.

[DJHJR86]

The only dude on the roster worth building around...

[Burgold]

Really good sober write up. I predicted this season would be a train wreck because of the way last season ended. Most of this is about coaching to me. We have sufficient talent to be at least an okay team (7-9 wins), but are playing like we are a 0-2 win team. I think the drafts have been strong. Ironically, I think the front office has still been weak. The use and non use of personnel has been baffling.

 

Throwing Haskins out with Gruden washing his hands of the move... not talking to the kid on the sidelines, recusing himself from play calling, not giving him sufficient snaps in practice (splitting with Colt?) and seemingly not coming up with a Haskins playbook designed to make the kid successful and allow him to do what he does well... All of that is just WEIRD! It's like we're doing everything we possibly can to make the player look like a bust.

 

It's like Gruden is separated from the team and just waiting for the divorse, and just going through the motions of being married. Does he think he's putting up a good face for the kids and neighbors?

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Burgold said:

 

 

It's like Gruden is separated from the team and just waiting for the divorse, and just going through the motions of being married. Does he think he's putting up a good face for the kids and neighbors?

 

I think coaching is for sure part of it. But when you coach handcuffed it's tough to get too creative. When you coach thinking you're going to be the scapegoat for a poor regime, it's tough to do anything worthwhile. 

 

Until people start realizing that the issue is at the very top, and the very top won't ever be replaced, heartbreak will continue. The only hope this franchise has is that the "Hand of the King" is good enough to change the King into being a "better" owner. Better being defined as, "less involved due to the fact he's not a football guy". Sure, one could argue Snyder has been less involved. But his insistence on keeping Allen around is proof of the opposite. Bruce is Dan's social extension. Keeping him around means Dan is just as involved as ever. 

 

So while I agree that the coaching is holding this team back to the tune of horrendous play versus mediocrity, I believe the coaching is a symptom of the overall pathology...

 

The infection needs to be removed or any success this team finds will be lightning in a bottle and not sustainable.

[Butchie_T]

I was really hoping to wake up to good news of a firing. The day is young though and my heart is full of hope......

[my_friend_goo]

Given that for official purposes, stats are often slightly tweaked post-game, with yardage totals amended slightly, sacks/tackles awarded etc., is it time to revisit the scores you've awarded Bruce Allen? In a 0-4 season, following the end of last season and complete lack of action, 7x☹️ seems an insufficient appraisal of his performance to me.

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Butchie_T said:

I was really hoping to wake up to good news of a firing. The day is young though and my heart is full of hope......

 

You know, I thought about how I would react to news of a firing...

 

And I'm not sure if it's apathy setting in or it's just the cold hard truth, but...

 

I don't think a firing does anything except buy Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder some leeway. Unless that firing as at the top of the ladder, what good does it do at this point? A new DC? Sure. Tomsula or Ryan are sure to be more aggressive. But will that matter? A new head coach? I'm not sold on Callahan, and do we really want to see O'Connell get tossed to the lions so soon?

 

This team is absolutely regressing, but I'm not sure that's totally due to the coaching. We may see a small improvement. Maybe even enough to win a game or five. But then what?

 

There's one change that would incite hope (and even then only a glimmer until I saw who the replacement was).

 

Otherwise the only thing a firing does is act as a mercy killing for whoever got the hook. And in this case I believe in no mercy... just because my misery wants company

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

 

 

So while I agree that the coaching is holding this team back to the tune of horrendous play versus mediocrity, I believe the coaching is a symptom of the overall pathology...

 

The infection needs to be removed or any success this team finds will be lightning in a bottle and not sustainable.

I buy that. I've said for a while that it's an "AND" and not an "OR" situation. We've had two good drafts in a row, but our free agency, player relations, and all the other stuff stinks. More, the tenor of the team is wrong.

 

For all the things that McCloughan did wrong (and boy did he do a lot wrong) he seemed to generate a good relationship with the team and they seemed to rally towards that. Bruce is just the cheap **** out to cheat them and screw them. Good, hard negotiations are fine. Bruce leaves too many feeling screwed over and that doesn't even include the side stuff. The other day I saw a TV news segment about some practice field that used astroturf. The reporter said, it was a field type not even in use in the league anymore.

 

Then why are we practicing on it? That type of cheapness or lack of forethought is ridiculous. It's a billion dollar business. Get the little things right.

[KDawg]

Just now, my_friend_goo said:

Given that for official purposes, stats are often slightly tweaked post-game, with yardage totals amended slightly, sacks/tackles awarded etc., is it time to revisit the scores you've awarded Bruce Allen? In a 0-4 season, following the end of last season and complete lack of action, 7x☹️ seems an insufficient appraisal of his performance to me.

 

I mean, he could only have 12x  at this point. So he's pretty soundly in the lead.

 

Not going to rescore previous weeks, though. But I suspect Allen is going to be taking a commanding lead.

[sempre_victrix]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

You know, I thought about how I would react to news of a firing...

 

And I'm not sure if it's apathy setting in or it's just the cold hard truth, but...

 

I don't think a firing does anything except buy Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder some leeway. Unless that firing as at the top of the ladder, what good does it do at this point? A new DC? Sure. Tomsula or Ryan are sure to be more aggressive. But will that matter? A new head coach? I'm not sold on Callahan, and do we really want to see O'Connell get tossed to the lions so soon?

 

This team is absolutely regressing, but I'm not sure that's totally due to the coaching. We may see a small improvement. Maybe even enough to win a game or five. But then what?

 

There's one change that would incite hope (and even then only a glimmer until I saw who the replacement was).

 

Otherwise the only thing a firing does is act as a mercy killing for whoever got the hook.

 

At this point, the only thing that will get Dan's head out of his ass is a good 0-8 start.  The stadium will be empty of Redskins fans and the local press will be ripping the organization for inaction.  Once the late night talk show hosts begin to poke fun, something has got to happen.

 

I agree that any firing, aside from Allen, will just buy more time for Dan & Bruce.  Who in their right mind wants to come here, in any capacity, unless it's for stupid money?

 

 

[profusion]

5 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

At this point, the only thing that will get Dan's head out of his ass is a good 0-8 start. 

 

Quite the optimist, you are. 😄

[sempre_victrix]

We're already 16 point dogs to the Pats, BTW. 

 

At home.

 

I predict us to lose by 30+.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, sempre_victrix said:

We're already 16 point dogs to the Pats, BTW. 

 

At home.

 

I predict us to lose by 30+.

 

Yeah. 16 pts in the Pats favor is an easy money bet at the moment. Surprised the line is that low.

[sempre_victrix]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Yeah. 16 pts in the Pats favor is an easy money bet at the moment. Surprised the line is that low.

 

Maybe Brady broke both legs yesterday and the starting defense was abducted by aliens and it has not been reported, yet.  Then that line makes sense.

[Butchie_T]

21 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

You know, I thought about how I would react to news of a firing...

 

And I'm not sure if it's apathy setting in or it's just the cold hard truth, but...

 

I don't think a firing does anything except buy Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder some leeway. Unless that firing as at the top of the ladder, what good does it do at this point? A new DC? Sure. Tomsula or Ryan are sure to be more aggressive. But will that matter? A new head coach? I'm not sold on Callahan, and do we really want to see O'Connell get tossed to the lions so soon?

 

This team is absolutely regressing, but I'm not sure that's totally due to the coaching. We may see a small improvement. Maybe even enough to win a game or five. But then what?

 

There's one change that would incite hope (and even then only a glimmer until I saw who the replacement was).

 

Otherwise the only thing a firing does is act as a mercy killing for whoever got the hook. And in this case I believe in no mercy... just because my misery wants company

While it would be nothing more than a mercy killing. The fundamental problems lie deeper than any single firing. a complete blow up and rebuild of the entire organization needs to take place. Starting with Snyder selling the team. 

 

Regrettably his narcissistic attitude will never allow reality to smack him in the head. So we end up with an organization that embraces mediocrity and ignores the problems staring them right in the face.    Sad walk.......

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

It oversimplifies things to say that if the Dline creates pressure it makes it easier on the guys in the back end.

 

That said, it's rather glaring to me that our middle linebackers are still terrible and our secondary's cumulative wonderlic was probably 3.  We've tossed different players and coaches into the mix of this group for years and still see the same stuff over and over again.  I'm certainly not defending Manusky as to my eyes, he stinks.  But I'll be damned if all this talent doesn't look like doo doo on the regular and I can't imagine that it's all a result of Manusky and every other coach he's had being complete morons.  Perhaps another coach could get more, but how much more?

 

Daniel Jones stunk up the joint yesterday and you'd never know it.  Similar to last year when we played bad quarterbacks that failed to make plays vs. our team making plays.  Our defense just has this innate ability to make everyone seem like they are pretty damn good.

[Commander -JB-]

Jay is a lame duck coach in the final year of his deal.  He’s basically taunting Snyder to fire him because his money is guaranteed.  He knows his future isn’t with the Redskins.  He’s already planning on joining his brother in Las Vegas next season.  He doesn’t give two ****s about Haskins or whatever the Redskins front office has going on there or with Trent Williams.  At this point I think he just wants to get the hell out of Dodge.

 

 

[KDawg]

Our inside backers are being asked to do too much. If Reuben Foster was in there, you'd see a much different result. Here's the problem with my last statement, though: IF REUBEN FOSTER WAS IN THERE. Foster has a ton of ability, it's just Redskinny that one ability he doesn't have is avail.

 

Now we go in with some green backers.

 

They are better tacklers than last year's crop. But they are also not as athletic. And they are being asked to do a lot in coverage/run responsibilities because it's not happening at the other levels. The inside backers are not good enough for that, and they are over thinking to my eye. Which makes them slower to react and they aren't playing downhill. 

 

There is also little to no creativity in our pressure schemes. And our DE/OLBs just aren't doing much of anything. They're getting so far upfield that it looks like the team expects Payne and Allen to collapse the pocket from the inside, but those two are being blocked by three sometimes four guys and teams appear to be leaving our OLB/DEs one on one. And they are winning. 

 

I haven't had the heart to go back and watch a lot of film, so I'm basing this on the first eye ball test, to be fair.

 

But there's a lot wrong with this team defensively.

[dballer]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Our inside backers are being asked to do too much. If Reuben Foster was in there, you'd see a much different result. Here's the problem with my last statement, though: IF REUBEN FOSTER WAS IN THERE. Foster has a ton of ability, it's just Redskinny that one ability he doesn't have is avail.

 

Now we go in with some green backers.

 

They are better tacklers than last year's crop. But they are also not as athletic. And they are being asked to do a lot in coverage/run responsibilities because it's not happening at the other levels. The inside backers are not good enough for that, and they are over thinking to my eye. Which makes them slower to react and they aren't playing downhill. 

 

There is also little to no creativity in our pressure schemes. And our DE/OLBs just aren't doing much of anything. They're getting so far upfield that it looks like the team expects Payne and Allen to collapse the pocket from the inside, but those two are being blocked by three sometimes four guys and teams appear to be leaving our OLB/DEs one on one. And they are winning. 

 

I haven't had the heart to go back and watch a lot of film, so I'm basing this on the first eye ball test, to be fair.

 

But there's a lot wrong with this team defensively.

 

Holcombe is the most athletic ILB we have had in a long time. But, hes a later round rookie.

 

The creativity is the problem. You watch some of the best defenses, who have the best talent, and they are extremely creative. We don't have the best talent, and expect them to just line up and win. It's madness. 

[fearlessNelms]

Just terrible all the way around. Keenum has left plays and points on the field with his overthrows of wide open receivers that would be TD's. The overthrow of McClaurin opening week & the two to Quinn yesterday are huge. Those plays change the dynamics of games and whether we still lose those games or not really isn't the point. It's about giving your team their best chance to win and Keenum has failed. Very hard to judge Haskins' performance considering the situation he was thrown into- already down 14, with a depleted O-line that can't run the ball and few weapons at receiver. I will say that Haskins does move better than I thought he could and that is obviously a plus.

 

As for the D? Awful again! Missed assignments, guys stumbling over their own feet and falling down, teams converting 65% of their third downs- just abysmal! There was one play where the entire D bit on a basic play action fake to the left and Chris Spielman- who was a very good linebacker in the league for a long time- said how that is inexcusable and should never happen to an NFL defense. It's like the land of the lost out there! When they show our sideline, the coaches look clueless and uninspired, which translates to the players on the field, who look the same.

 

We're a bad team that's getting worse by the week and we're a 14.5 underdog at home this upcoming week. i know it's the Patriots, but I don't remember us being over a two TD dog at home and I've been a fan for 46 years. The way this season is headed is downright ugly and if things don't at least get righted somewhat, our 2019 Washington Redskins have a shot at being a historically bad team.   

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, dballer said:

 

Holcombe is the most athletic ILB we have had in a long time. But, hes a later round rookie.

 

The creativity is the problem. You watch some of the best defenses, who have the best talent, and they are extremely creative. We don't have the best talent, and expect them to just line up and win. It's madness. 

 

Sure... When I said not as athletic I meant as a whole unit. Holcomb is athletic. But he's green as a fresh grown banana. 

 

Second point is head on the nail. Or nail on the head. I'm a 'Skins fan, the order of things is easy to mess up.

[megared]

39 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don't think a firing does anything except buy Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder some leeway. 

 

Agreed.  I don't want Jay to be seen as a scapegoat when the problem is much larger.  Would love to see Bruce canned first...But if not, at least a mandate to return to the GM structure, if not his full removal from football operations.  

 

A new GM should be able to decide everyone else's fate.  We all know Jay needs to go, but I don't want Bruce making that decision in the lens of us reloading and being instantly competitive.  

[GoDeep81]

Nobody fired yet? I really don't get it.. Season is done. Jay aint coming back. They just gonna waste 12 more games only to start over again next year? Seems they'd just clean house, promote within and see if there's anyone worth keeping? Get Haskins a bunch of reps..  If we see Colt McCoy next week Im gonna throw up. 

[justice98]

16 minutes ago, megared said:

 

Agreed.  I don't want Jay to be seen as a scapegoat when the problem is much larger.  Would love to see Bruce canned first...But if not, at least a mandate to return to the GM structure, if not his full removal from football operations.  

 

A new GM should be able to decide everyone else's fate.  We all know Jay needs to go, but I don't want Bruce making that decision in the lens of us reloading and being instantly competitive.  

 

Therein lies the rub.  Getting rid of Jay does nobody any good if Bruce is the one picking the replacement.  And there's really been no real buzz about Bruce being in jeopardy.  There needs to be a full-on housecleaning, top to bottom.