Raiders suspending Antonio Brown

[Nerm]

37 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t think it’s rigged at all.  The timeline sets up perfectly.  He swallowed his pride, apologized to the team, and right after that was over the Raiders handed him papers indicating his guarantees no longer existed.  AB is a nut, but Mayock and Gruden are morons.

 

He swallowed his pride, apologized, then released a YouTube video that contained audio recordings of private conversations with his coach.  The Raiders did the right thing.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, Nerm said:

 

He swallowed his pride, apologized, then released a YouTube video that contained audio recordings of private conversations with his coach.  The Raiders did the right thing.

That video wasn’t released until after they notified him his guarantees were stripped.

 

What exactly did they expect?  Why even bother to have him address the team? If you are going to tell him afterwards that his contract basically no longer exists. Yeah, that was sure to go over real well.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, NickyJ said:

So you are faulting the Raiders before confirming he has CTE.... How are the Raiders supposed to force a player to get tested for CTE? What are they going to do if he refuses? Cut him?

Yes, I'm faulting them for not doing that because this makes absolutely no sense and many people can argue that his behavior has gotten gradually worse, typical of CTE.  

 

NFL has just started to take mental health with any level of seriousness, each team has a team doctor, should at least evaluate him, we've already had one player come back to the the team headquarters and kill themselves after killing someone else.  If they were willing to cut him anyway, that's the least they could've done, especially since I doubt New England will.  To say that's a haven from nonsense isn't true anymore after Hernandez.

[Nerm]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That video wasn’t released until after they notified him his guarantees were stripped.

 

What exactly did they expect?  Why even bother to have him address the team? If you are going to tell him afterwards that his contract basically no longer exists. Yeah, that was sure to go over real well.

 

Im pretty sure he was recording private conversations with his coach before his guaranteed money was stripped.  There was also pretty good production quality in the video... So it probably was made before yesterday (I.e. Before he lost the guaranteed money).  I am starting to wonder if his goal was to get cut the whole time.  He really was not leaving the Raiders much of a choice.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

They would be shown to be liars. You cannot confirm CTE without dissecting the brain which requires the subject be dead. 

That's not true anymore

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/nfl-player-confirmed-1st-diagnosis-cte-living-patient/story?id=51181721

[goskins10]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

That's not true anymore

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/nfl-player-confirmed-1st-diagnosis-cte-living-patient/story?id=51181721

 

This is still in the research stage so as of right now the only factual way to diagnose CTE is after the person is dead. Raiders do not have access to this technology nor could thy stand behind the results. Maybe in time, but not right now. 

 

Either way, they have no business making any kind of statement about the man that they cannot prove. I believe that would be considered tampering and they would lose draft picks and hopefully a huge fine. However, it would still interfere with the players ability to find another team at a fair market price. 

 

It is possible that AB is just crazy without there being CTE. Making any kind of claim is pure conjecture and should be met with extreme penalties. And if you are looking at as some misguided way to protect him against himself, that's not up to the teams or the NFL  He has agents, family, friends etc. They should be counseling him. Either way it's not up to the teams to jsut decide he has something with no way to prove it. That is a really massive dick move IMO.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

17 minutes ago, Nerm said:

 

Im pretty sure he was recording private conversations with his coach before his guaranteed money was stripped.  There was also pretty good production quality in the video... So it probably was made before yesterday (I.e. Before he lost the guaranteed money).  I am starting to wonder if his goal was to get cut the whole time.  He really was not leaving the Raiders much of a choice.

It doesn’t matter when it was recorded.  Nor am I condoning any of AB’s actions.  

 

But the Raiders still handled this about as poorly as they could have.  Under no circumstances was stripping his guarantees ever going to lead to anything positive.  The only thing guaranteed was more drama.

[NickyJ]

19 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Yes, I'm faulting them for not doing that because this makes absolutely no sense and many people can argue that his behavior has gotten gradually worse, typical of CTE.  

 

NFL has just started to take mental health with any level of seriousness, each team has a team doctor, should at least evaluate him, we've already had one player come back to the the team headquarters and kill themselves after killing someone else.  If they were willing to cut him anyway, that's the least they could've done, especially since I doubt New England will.  To say that's a haven from nonsense isn't true anymore after Hernandez.

You didn't answer my question: How are the Raiders supposed to force a player to get tested for CTE? What are they going to do if he refuses?

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

This is still in the research stage so as of right now the only factual way to diagnose CTE is after the person is dead. Raiders do not have access to this technology nor could thy stand behind the results. Maybe in time, but not right now. 

 

Either way, they have no business making any kind of statement about the man that they cannot prove. I believe that would be considered tampering and they would lose draft picks and hopefully a huge fine. However, it would still interfere with the players ability to find another team at a fair market price. 

 

It is possible that AB is just crazy without there being CTE. Making any kind of claim is pure conjecture and should be met with extreme penalties. And if you are looking at as some misguided way to protect him against himself, that's not up to the teams or the NFL  He has agents, family, friends etc. They should be counseling him. Either way it's not up to the teams to jsut decide he has something with no way to prove it. That is a really massive dick move IMO.  

 

Not only is that researcher not associated with the NFL but the NFL has put zero money into the ability to find this protein that I can find.  If you want to argue they didn't prove he had CTE until after he died, you can say two years ago they could've gone all in creating a process to test for that protein, but they didn't.  From what we can tell every team has a team mental health specialist and not once did AB have to see him.  It's a not a dick move when nearly every player that's been tested after they die has CTE, this is about protecting them so yes the team should be taking a proactive approach on this, especially now.

[NickyJ]

1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

So, all due diligence done by both parties over an hour or so?

 

That is pretty much how most free agent signings go, I guess.

Patriots: Hey dude, we've been to the Super Bowl three times in a row, and we're going to again this year. Wanna come with? We'll give you $15 million with another $9 million guaranteed.

 

Who, in their right mind, would say no? If you say that Brown isn't in his right mind, I guess you'd have a point, but no one else.

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

You didn't answer my question: How are the Raiders supposed to force a player to get tested for CTE? What are they going to do if he refuses?

You test for the protein I mentioned in the article and depending on the amount, especially any, require an evaluation.  You can withhold game checks, any other way you would discipline a player.  Yes, I do envision a future where we get to the point where we can confirm substaintial brain damage in players while they are alive and they'll be forced to retire, if that's what you are getting at.

[NickyJ]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

You test for the protein I mentioned in the article and depending on the amount, especially any, require an evaluation.  You can withhold game checks, any other way you would discipline a player.  Yes, I do envision a future where we get to the point where we can confirm substaintial brain damage in players while they are alive and they'll be forced to retire, if that's what you are getting at.

So what you're saying is that the solution to someone with CTE flipping his lid about being fined... is to fine him again. I'm pretty sure the last time he got fined, he threatened to punch the general manager in the face. I expect throwing on a "we think you have brain damage" on at the end wouldn't make him more willing to comply.

[TradeTheBeal!]

8 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Patriots: Hey dude, we've been to the Super Bowl three times in a row, and we're going to again this year. Wanna come with? We'll give you $15 million with another $9 million guaranteed.

 

Who, in their right mind, would say no? If you say that Brown isn't in his right mind, I guess you'd have a point, but no one else.

 

Oh that definitely happened.  It just happened while he was still under contract with the Raiders.

 

Maybe even weeks ago.

[Renegade7]

Just now, NickyJ said:

So what you're saying is that the solution to someone with CTE flipping his lid about being fined... is to fine him again. I'm pretty sure the last time he got fined, he threatened to punch the general manager in the face. I expect throwing on a "we think you have brain damage" on at the end wouldn't make him more willing to comply.

 

Then what is the point of having a mental health initiative if they aren't going to use it?  Bench him, whatever, otherwise, just let them bash their skulls in until they do it to themselves or someone else, which is the in thing now if you haven't noticed.

 

This list is before Hernandez and Belcher, so I don't care if the players don't like it: https://sbindependent.org/nfl-athletes-with-cte-who-committed-suicide/

[goskins10]

13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Not only is that researcher not associated with the NFL but the NFL has put zero money into the ability to find this protein that I can find.  If you want to argue they didn't prove he had CTE until after he died, you can say two years ago they could've gone all in creating a process to test for that protein, but they didn't.  From what we can tell every team has a team mental health specialist and not once did AB have to see him.  It's a not a dick move when nearly every player that's been tested after they die has CTE, this is about protecting them so yes the team should be taking a proactive approach on this, especially now.

 

You are arguing two different points here. There is Oakland and AB. And then there is the NFl and their reaction to long term brain damage including CTE. I am glad to have both conversations but please stop conflating the two. 

 

As for CTE - Yes, I agree 100% that the the NFL for all it's bluster has not done enough to understand the issue and to try and find solutions. Despite the money they make off these players if nothing else from a cold business standpoint it seems they would want to protect their assets better. From a human decency standpoint they are grossly negligent in their response which in my opinion is jsut horrible. Shows a total lack compassion or caring about the players.

 

However, that has nothing to do with making some kind of claim that a player is suffering from a disease that at this point cannot be proven. What if he does not have CTE? Then what? Oops my bad? No, you cant mess with a mans money that way even if you think you are doing it in his best interest. Also, he has agents, family friends and other advisers that with all we do know about the issues around head trauma have the responsibility to safe him from himself. 

 

I can see you have some passion around players an CTE and i agree from that standpoint, but what you are suggesting is just plain wrong. There are other ways to force this issue that are both ethical and legal. What you are suggesting is neither. At the very least it would be a major breach of contract based on the CBA. 

 

 

 

[Llevron]

Can’t we all just be happy the Redskins aren’t  involved? 

[purbeast]

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Can’t we all just be happy the Redskins aren’t  involved? 

That was my first reaction when I saw the news. 

 

"Phew.  At least the Redskins can't pull a Redskins now."

[Idaho fan]

6 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Can’t we all just be happy the Redskins aren’t  involved? 

They *we* almost were.   Skins were actively pursuing AB.  Guess we can all be thankful it didn’t happen (just like it didn’t happen with Ocho Cinco)

[NickyJ]

35 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Oh that definitely happened.  It just happened while he was still under contract with the Raiders.

 

Maybe even weeks ago.

And your proof for that is that they managed to send him an offer that they prepared well in advance when they realized their was a high chance that he hit the market? I think we've gone full circle.

 

35 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Then what is the point of having a mental health initiative if they aren't going to use it?  Bench him, whatever, otherwise, just let them bash their skulls in until they do it to themselves or someone else, which is the in thing now if you haven't noticed.

 

This list is before Hernandez and Belcher, so I don't care if the players don't like it: https://sbindependent.org/nfl-athletes-with-cte-who-committed-suicide/

Goskins covered it well for me before I could respond. In either case, if the players don't like it, they're not going to comply. Brown has made it very clear that if he doesn't like something, he isn't going to comply without pulling teeth. Sitting a clearly woozy player in a game is entirely different from taking them aside in the middle of the week and trying to tactfully say "you are brain damaged".

[Renegade7]

26 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I can see you have some passion around players an CTE and i agree from that standpoint, but what you are suggesting is just plain wrong. There are other ways to force this issue that are both ethical and legal. What you are suggesting is neither. At the very least it would be a major breach of contract based on the CBA. 

 

You have some points, but if you dont think mandatory testing for this protein will happen at some point once this process and correlation becomes more refined into a certified process, I got bad news for you. 

 

I dont know if you read the list, but one of the guys who killed himself was 44 and had the brain of a 90 year old with Alzheimers.  This isnt about finding a trace and overreacting, Hearnadez had one of the worst stages of CTE you can have when he died at 27, they will be able to figure how bad players are and start tracking it with other data and factors and they should.

 

There are professions that have mandatory mental health screening, I accept your arguement it's not in the current CBA, but it needs to be.  And it will end the NFL as we know it because theres no way to make a naturally violent game perfectly safe.  I know this is radical, but we are at a point where saying some players are just weirder then others, no, this is staring us in the face, the ice caps are melting.

[Nerm]

49 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The only thing guaranteed was more drama.

 

If I am the Raiders GM, there is no way I risk $30+ million in cap space after what he has been doing.  If you have seen the video of AB reacting to the news he was cut, it really seems like this was his goal all along.  He was going out of his way to show that he was going to continue being a problem for the team, from what I can tell.

[Renegade7]

Just now, NickyJ said:

 

Goskins covered it well for me before I could respond. In either case, if the players don't like it, they're not going to comply. Brown has made it very clear that if he doesn't like something, he isn't going to comply without pulling teeth. Sitting a clearly woozy player in a game is entirely different from taking them aside in the middle of the week and trying to tactfully say "you are brain damaged".

 

His point that it isnt in the CBA is fair until they put it in there.  And I'm not jus talking about CTE, if you want to argue we are still not ready to say the protein level is a clear indicator of CTE stages, a certain level should still require a mandatory mental health screening.  Every team has a mental health doctor now, the only reason they arent making mandatory to see them is because it isnt in the CBA yet.  Are you saying it shouldnt for any reason?

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You have some points, but if you dont think mandatory testing for this protein will happen at some point once this process and correlation becomes more refined into a certified process, I got bad news for you. 

 

I dont know if you read the list, but one of the guys who killed himself was 44 and had the brain of a 90 year old with Alzheimers.  This isnt about finding a trace and overreacting, Hearnadez had one of the worst stages of CTE you can have when he died at 27, they will be able to figure how bad players are and start tracking it with other data and factors and they should.

 

There are professions that have mandatory mental health screening, I accept your arguement it's not in the current CBA, but it needs to be.  And it will end the NFL as we know it because theres no way to make a naturally violent game perfectly safe.  I know this is radical, but we are at a point where saying some players are just weirder then others, no, this is staring us in the face, the ice caps are melting.

 

You are still arguing a totally separate point that i have made no comment on, at all. Please tell me where I said the testing would never become mandatory. I never even inferred it. It is highly possible and if it works then it would be awesome. I would totally support it. I agree the league should be doing more. I am not disputing that at all. Not sure how else i can say it... 🙂  

 

But that has absolutely zero to do with the current situation and what Oakland should or more importantly can do to AB. They are two entirely different conversations. Currently Oakland would be in serious violation of the CBA and possibly be open to civil litigation. 

 

 

[Ghost of]

why are people arguing CTE because a wide receiver, of all things, is acting like a lunatic?  

This is a league where Kellen Winslow brought a full replica of a woman's nether parts with him on the road.  A league where Charles Haley masturbated in front of teammates and pulled his genitals out and acted insane all through Super Bowl runs.  Where guys hit women or lose their cool in other situations with millions on the line.  Skill position players seem very susceptible to this, I don't know if it's the attention they got growing up or the attention they get from external sources in the league.  There was one guy who blew his career by killing (and attempting to murder) his gf and son, respectively.  Rapists, lunatics, and for some reason lots of wideouts seem to have bipolar issues (there was the one guy who played for Detroit, Brandon Marshall, maybe AB?)

 

Not every time a professional (or college) athlete acts like a giant piece of garbage is it attributable to concussions.  

 

You know who else was a jerk who signed with the Patriots? Randy Moss.  He hit a meter maid with his car, and often acted like a **** to people.  He just had more moments where he was seemingly likable.   

 

The CTE thing is starting to make people apologists for terrible human beings because that seems more tolerable to our mind than remembering that the people who dominate the serious or violent crime stats on college campuses are often the very people that some cheer for on Saturdays (then Sundays.) 

[NickyJ]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

His point that it isnt in the CBA is fair until they put it in there.  And I'm not jus talking about CTE, if you want to argue we are still not ready to say the protein level is a clear indicator of CTE stages, a certain level should still require a mandatory mental health screening.  Every team has a mental health doctor now, the only reason they arent making mandatory to see them is because it isnt in the CBA yet.  Are you saying it shouldnt for any reason?

I'm saying that Oakland, in releasing him, was doing absolutely all they can do about him. I agree with Battered, they handled it poorly from the start, but there was nothing more unethical in what they did than what teams are allowed to do.