Sit Haskins for 2019??? (The Andrew Luck Effect)

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

The irony is, our OLine could possibly be even worse next year - if we're without Scherff, Williams, and Penn, and are unsuccessful in addressing it next offseason.

 

And our front office should get ripped to shreds if it goes backwards.  Trent is gone, but I dont agree Scherff is.  Penn I dont care about because we should be using that first pick on oline and signing at least one other veteran.

 

This may jus be me being optimistic, but regardless of the reports until Trent is gone hes still here.  Ya never know until you know, maybe seeing Haskins get cruched a couple times changes his mind.

[SonnySideUp]

I think they SHOULD sit him for the entire season (especially with this OL) as KC did with Mahomes but I doubt they will have that luxury. I think that either Keenum will get injured or do so poorly that they will be forced to play Haskins (this assumes that McCoy is gone permanently which may or may not be the case). Even if Keenum doesn't get injured, if the team goes 0-5 they may just go ahead and start Haskins to try and light a fire under the team.
 

I'm just not very sure that I like that idea. Given this team's recent history of QB injuries (including RG3 and especially after what happened at the end of last season with Smith and McCoy) and the team's overall bad luck with injuries throughout the team (whether it's because of the crappy turf at FEDEX, training quality or whatever the reason), I just don't like the idea of playing him the first season.

 

Gruden even admitted that they rushed McCoy's recovery last season to try and get him back too soon. Rushing things is what the Skins do. They have so little depth at many positions that it seems as if it's part of their brand anymore. I don't want to see them also rush Haskins till they get the OL in better shape. And after yesterday, there's now Andrew Luck's ghost hovering over the subject of QB protection everywhere.

Also, if McCoy doesn't come back, do they try and get another QB for backup? I don't know enough about Woodrum to guess whether they keep him or not but I can't imagine they would go into the season with just two QB's after what happened last year. But then.....they ARE the Skins' FO.  

[Malapropismic Depository]

I like the idea of Case being in the game, and DH and Alex are on the sidelines, and after each play by Case, Alex is dissecting it for DH and he soaks all that in.

Then during the week in practice, granted it's with the 2's, but DH implements everything Alex told him at the previous game.

Is that realistic ?

[JoggingGod]

1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

The irony is, our OLine could possibly be even worse next year - if we're without Scherff, Williams, and Penn, and are unsuccessful in addressing it next offseason.

I doubt Scherff leaves and a 1st round rookie would be an upgrade over Penn most likely.

[Renegade7]

30 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

I like the idea of Case being in the game, and DH and Alex are on the sidelines, and after each play by Case, Alex is dissecting it for DH and he soaks all that in.

Then during the week in practice, granted it's with the 2's, but DH implements everything Alex told him at the previous game.

Is that realistic ?

 

If I'm not mistaken Haskins has already been poking his head in those convos at least in practice without Alex being in the middle of it.  Dude is doing the little things and mad that he isn't playing better, he's the truth.  

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/dwayne-haskins-i-know-i-will-be-great/ar-AAFHLXJ?ocid=ob-fb-enus-894&fbclid=IwAR16NQYy2w2d5qc7qFHzSJwpQXvEmp8gIUwRkFoz6PAgMhkZg4WHa64gaGI

 

Quote

According to ESPN's John Keim, Haskins is treating his path in the NFL like a graduate course on quarterbacking:

As one Washington Redskins quarterback received the playcall from the coach, another - rookie Dwayne Haskins - would inch his way toward the huddle. Then, as the other quarterback - either Colt McCoy or Case Keenum - relayed the play in the huddle, Haskins would lean in to listen. And learn.

 

[volsmet]

Good to see young @Renegade7 come around. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I want whatever the coaches want here.  They see him in practice every day they know what he knows including whether he can call protections well.  Game Pass has a cool feature where they interviews players for 20 minutes or so and they delve deep into their preparation.   Ironically, I watched one from Andrew Luck not long ago.   Luck said even as a veteran he spends more time going over protections with his coordinators than any other aspect of the game.  If he can ensure the protection is good then it dramatically increases the odds that the play he runs is successful.  He described it in a nerdy way that I can't really duplicate well on this thread but I'll just say it doesn't sound simple.

 

You can simplify an offense for a rookie QB.  But defenses aren't going to simplify their part and arguably that's more essential to the point here.   Defensive coordinators get off on disguising coverages for young QBs and want to put a lot on their plate as to what they need to think about.  Shawn Springs talked about it some and said Gregg would go off on them if rookie QBs had success against them.  

 

That's my long winded way of saying, Haskins will have a lot on his plate to begin with as to shaky offensive line play.  I'd wait for him to have decent command of protections before I'd throw him to the wolves.   Because if the dude doesn't have a decent mastery of protections yet and you couple that with a shaky O line -- that could be brutal.

 

I am hardline against starting Haskins right away.  I see some value of playing Haskins at some point.  But I am perfectly fine if the coaches elect to sit Haskins for the whole season.  I don't think Jay would sit Haskins to help save his job considering I think his best shot to save his job would be to eventually get Haskins to play and show that he has some promise under his system.  

[sempre_victrix]

I feel that the better QB should start, be it Haskins or Case.  Haskins has a lot to learn and his footwork is not very good.  He has a great arm and I hope that his touch improves.  There's no use to have an artificial date for him to be ready.

 

That said, if he eventually becomes the better QB this year, AND we have a shot at the playoffs, I think we should start him.  Nothing like game reps to improve his skills.

 

 

[volsmet]

10 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

I feel that the better QB should start, be it Haskins or Case.  Haskins has a lot to learn and his footwork is not very good.  He has a great arm and I hope that his touch improves.  There's no use to have an artificial date for him to be ready.

 

That said, if he eventually becomes the better QB this year, AND we have a shot at the playoffs, I think we should start him.  Nothing like game reps to improve his skills.

 

 

 

What makes a QB better? Can a lesser QB ever give you a better chance to win than one that is a bit better? 

[sempre_victrix]

2 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

What makes a QB better? Can a lesser QB ever give you a better chance to win than one that is a bit better? 

 

Ultimately, the better QB is the one who is more able to put the team into a position to win the game.  I would think it would be the QB who is a more accurate passer, one who makes the better decisions, and is better able to understand our offense and better able to read defenses.  Obviously, most of that is subjective.

[volsmet]

3 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

 

Ultimately, the better QB is the one who is more able to put the team into a position to win the game.  I would think it would be the QB who is a more accurate passer, one who makes the better decisions, and is better able to understand our offense and better able to read defenses.  Obviously, most of that is subjective.

 

Love that post.

 

If we take it to college & the QB many are calling the best they’ve ever seen:

 

Was Trevor Lawrence better than Bryant the second he got to Clemson... or by game 1... or by game 5? What made him better than Bryant on the 24th of September... that he lacked the week prior? 

 

Sometimes the best guy to get you from 1-10 isn’t the best guy to get you from 10-100.

 

 

[Shkspr]

We should probably sit all our quarterbacks until the O-Line is better.  Move Doctson to QB, Flowers to WR, slot in Adonis Alexander at LG and let it roll.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/patrick-mahomes-kansas-city-chiefs-rookie-quarterback-analysis-2019

 

I can’t believe this is a real thread. Good QBs do not sit year one. I think Haskins is good. Plz play him. There is no good reason not to. 

 

[sportjunkie07]

Every situation with every rookie qb is different. You have to compare them individually. Mahomes, russell wilson, mayfield, etc., are not the same situations as the one haskins is in. I want to sit haskins for 2 reasons:

 

1.) We do not have good support for him. Our oline and wide receivers are abysmal and Jordan Reed is hurt as well.

2.) He has limited playtime at the college level.. I just don't think he is ready and, most importantly, i don't think he is currently as good a qb as case keenum. 

 

We definitely need to do our best to support haskins. We need to take a heavy offensive approach to possibly free agency and definitely to the draft.  

 

It is remarkable how much indy expected from luck. He was expected to run a difficult offense for a young qb and had very little to work with on offense for a long time.. their defense was poor as well. I found myself wondering around year 3 if they were ever going to make it a priority to support him. They whiffed really hard on the Trent Richardson trade which set them back in that regard. 

 

Our run game could turn into a strength for this team and the defense has been heavily invensted in, so at least we have that going for us. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

How many young QBs are brought into good situations?? They wouldn’t have been brought in if the team was good.

 

this is not going to be a good season. They are going to lose 10+ games most likely. So let Haskins learn with the rest of the young guys. If he’s as good as we hope he is, we’ll see it and there will be value added to the team. 

 

Let Keenum get killed for the first 4-5 games. That’s fine because i know the FO is under the delusion that they can compete this year. So once that pipe dream is done, we can get to serious business with out long term solution 

[sportjunkie07]

13 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

How many young QBs are brought into good situations?? They wouldn’t have been brought in if the team was good.

 

this is not going to be a good season. They are going to lose 10+ games most likely. So let Haskins learn with the rest of the young guys. If he’s as good as we hope he is, we’ll see it and there will be value added to the team. 

 

Let Keenum get killed for the first 4-5 games. That’s fine because i know the FO is under the delusion that they can compete this year. So once that pipe dream is done, we can get to serious business with out long term solution 

Many young qbs are brought into good situations.

 

You have no idea if the skins will lose 10 games this year. There is a lot of parity in the NFL and it doesn't take much to turn the tide. The nfc east wasn't particularly strong last year. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I honestly don't care anymore.  @Renegade7 you missed that option.

 

 

He's gonna play when he plays and that'll be that.  4 or 5 games in, we'll see if we can win with Case.  If we are winning, Haskins sits.  If we're not, I'd be more inclined to want to see him play.

 

While the NFL should rightfully be ****ting their pants about Luck retiring early, I still think they're overall cavalier enough to look at Luck as an outlier, not as a predictor of what's to come.  They are going to point to guys like Brady, Brees, Rivers, Rodgers, Favre, Manning and Manning and others as examples of guys who have played the position for a long time (and in some cases way too long).  And you don't see Peyton Manning out there saying "Damn, I played too long, took too many hits, life after the NFL is hard..." No, he's on some ESPN show celebrating football.  

 

As I said I don't really care anymore, he'll be ready when the coaching staff deems fit.  But I think it's a combination of feeling comfortable with the playbook, being able to get the ball out quickly and decisively AND playing behind a capable line.  If Haskins gets the ball out quick, knows the playbook inside and out, can call plays in the huddle, audible at the line, etc, he goes a long way in protecting himself from taking a lot of hits.  Certainly not all, but some.  So they know they've got a line without Trent and some new pieces that need to gel and they've got a project QB with high upside....so, he sits.

 

I'm in the sit him camp for most of this season, but as I said I don't really care anymore.  He'll play when he plays.

 

Overall, I'm just tired and ready for the season to start so we can see what we've got.

 

 

@volsmet how'd I do with the gifs? 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

12 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

Many young qbs are brought into good situations.

 

You have no idea if the skins will lose 10 games this year. There is a lot of parity in the NFL and it doesn't take much to turn the tide. The nfc east wasn't particularly strong last year. 

Name these young QBs please. 

 

I’ll help and give you Mahomes. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

10 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

 

You have no idea if the skins will lose 10 games this year. 

 

Not gonna lie, I've got a pretty good idea.  And if you don't, you haven't been paying attention for awhile now.

[sportjunkie07]

15 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Name these young QBs please. 

 

I’ll help and give you Mahomes. 

Roethlisburger, Russell wilson, deshaun watson. You don't always have to have the number 1 pick to start a young qb. Contrast those guys to someone like Josh Rosen this year, who is going to have little support on his team. 

14 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Not gonna lie, I've got a pretty good idea.  And if you don't, you haven't been paying attention for awhile now.

Yeah. It's probable that it will blow up in our faces but there is smaller, yet realistic chance that things go our way. Happens all the time in the nfl. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

Yeah. It's probable that it will blow up in our faces but there is smaller, yet realistic chance that things go our way. Happens all the time in the nfl. 

 

I admire the optimism though.  You're right, it does happen all the time in the NFL, just doesn't seem to happen to us.   

[HardcoreZorn]

35 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

Many young qbs are brought into good situations.

 

You have no idea if the skins will lose 10 games this year. There is a lot of parity in the NFL and it doesn't take much to turn the tide. The nfc east wasn't particularly strong last year. 

 

I thought it was a foregone conclusion. A team with a strong defense, two horses at RB, and who went 6-3 last year with pedestrian at best QB last year will be lucky to win 5 games this year total. Let’s start Haskins even if he isn’t our best shot to win, just cause why not we’ll suck anyway. What a loser attitude.

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/patrick-mahomes-kansas-city-chiefs-rookie-quarterback-analysis-2019

 

I can’t believe this is a real thread. Good QBs do not sit year one. I think Haskins is good. Plz play him. There is no good reason not to. 

 

 

 

No, they play & retire at 29, can’t throw a forward pass at age 26, can’t throw with any velocity at 28, can’t get to week 16 at age 24, can’t get to the middle of the season at age 25, can’t walk at age 23.

 

Those are 4 different mvp level QBs all under the age of 30 today. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

22 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

I thought it was a foregone conclusion. A team with a strong defense, two horses at RB, and who went 6-3 last year with pedestrian at best QB last year will be lucky to win 5 games this year total. Let’s start Haskins even if he isn’t our best shot to win, just cause why not we’ll suck anyway. What a loser attitude.

Yes, a bad team that lucked into a decent record regresses the next season. That is a nearly annual occurrence in the nfl. Unfortunately we didn’t even get to enjoy the fluke playoff run because Alex went down 

 

And yes a fitting attitude for a perennial loser franchise like the Skins have been for near 3 decades

 

[HardcoreZorn]

12 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Yes, a bad team that lucked into a decent record regresses the next season. That is a nearly annual occurrence in the nfl. Unfortunately we didn’t even get to enjoy the fluke playoff run because Alex went down 

 

And yes a fitting attitude for a perennial loser franchise like the Skins have been for near 3 decades

 

 

They are 31-32-1 in the last 4 years and haven’t once finished in fourth place in the division during that span. They are average as can be. Its not inconceivable to think they were a playoff team last year with Smith still at the helm and not rotating through 15 offensive guards. So for one, they are just one year removed from being an almost playoff team. And two, it’s not just worse than last year but the last four. So sorry for not endorsing the attitude “we’ll be lucky to win 5 games, start Haskins even if he’s not ready” attitude. Play the best guy, play to win. Quit acting like Snyder used to.