Sit Haskins for 2019??? (The Andrew Luck Effect)

[Renegade7]

First off, I'm saying too early, and acknowledge this is a full on pendelumb swing from wanting him to start week 1 no matter what to benching him the whole season no matter what.  But this is why I started this thread instead of hijacking the already existing Haskins thread that should be about his development:

 

 

One of the points I've been arguing is that the experience Haskins got would be worth him getting hit because he'd learn faster how not to get hit and how to deal with it, watching his own tape on his mistakes and prioritizing blocking schemes that he used to brag about doing in college.  I was wrong, and the Colt we're, too thinking they could get away with this for 6-7 years.  Yes, historically we've had players go out earlier then they should and turn out HOF or Super Bowl QBs anyway, but this is 2019, and what we are seeing is players at younger and younger ages prioritizing their bodies and their future over this game.  He's supposedly walking away for half a billion dollars according to the Colts owner, **** just got real.

 

Make no mistake about it, if a 29 year old franchise QB can call it quits a week before the regular season starts, anyone can.  Now I'm not ready to go into full on turtle-mode on this, but here I am got my first thread to get Haskins locked and relentlessly blasting this decision to not prioritize his development and have to live with the fact that instead of Case possibly getting sacked 7-8 times in Philly next week, it'd be Haskins.  It'd have to sit and watch that whole thing, I would not stop thinking about it.  My perspective of this being a brutal game has just changed, this isn't about toughness anymore, and as an OT comment, stuff like what Luck just did is one of the reasons I don't believe there's going to be 100 Super Bowls.  I've been concerned for a while that I might not see my team win one simply because at somepoint they stop playing them, I do believe that will happen in my lifetime.

 

Back on topic:  so in this back and forth, I know I'm not the only one that has seen comments about being perfectly fine with Haskins not playing this year from one circumstance to the other.  That is completely different then going from starting him week 1 no matter what to not playing him at all this year no matter what.  Is the o-line really that bad? I'm not sure, but I'm positive we'll find out in about a week.  I terrfied that I think it already sucks in pass pro and will get worse when the eventual injuries start to mount.  It just feels inevitable.

 

Again, I don't want this lost in the Haskins thread or take it over because this is a very different, big picture dynamic.  Luck just did something that absolutely should change the conversation.  I bet you a million dollars Houston is looking at this and realizing that if they don't take protecting Watson seriously, that could be Watson in a couple years.  We should be looking at this and saying if we don't take protecting Haskins seriously, we should not expect him to just gut it out.  This changes things, I think the trend of seeing early retirements will continue and the reality that players are giving up their offseasons to rehab will reverbirate for a while.  That's one of the biggest things Luck touched on, this wasn't just about him missing games, this was about him missing life then going back out there just to get injured again and again and again, dealing with this for at least four offseasons in a row.  The Colts did not prioritize protecting him so he priorized protecting himself, shot heard around the world, we should not make the same mistake.

 

And for the record, I will not support benching him next year too if the o-line still sucks.  At some point he has to play, instead I will blast this franchise relentlessly if I don't believe they are taking the o-line seriously.  I don't know if that's technically hypocritical yet or just a reaction to an overreaction.

 

 

[SkinsGuy]

I picked "Did someone hack your account"? 

 

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

I picked "Did someone hack your account"? 

 

If anybody asks if I ever admit that I'm wrong, this should answer it : )

[bakedtater1]

I'm a douche and need to learn to read the whole OP.

 

#StartDH

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

What happens if the line is in shambles next year?..wait till the next year?

 

#StartDH

 

 

I already said no to that.  For me its too early, I still want him to play, but staying flexible enough that if we are leading the league in sacks allowed we should probably reconsider, or at least have that conversation.  I've changed my mind on holding out for Trent as well, if there's any truth the Pats are willing to give up a first, offer Docston with it and get it done so we can draft to o-linemen in the draft next year on top of whatever veteran(s) we bring in.  Vikings remade their entire o-line in one offseason not too long ago, this isn't impossible when its a priority.

[bowhunter]

No QB should start until at least 6 years on the bench to fully develop. Why would any team risk injury to a potential franchise player until there is surety that Medicare can help assist them with their rehab bills?

Players are drafted to play. Play them when they are ready to best help their team win. Whether it be week 1 or week 8

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

No QB should start until at least 6 years on the bench to fully develop.

 

 

To be clear, this thread is specific to 2019 only.

[justice98]

If Penn is serviceable, and he ultimately should be at least that, then I dont think the OL will be sooooo bad that you'd be afraid to put Haskins in there.  The line should be good enough to play him.  Just gotta run the crap out of the ball and scrape together a passable LG.   

[bakedtater1]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I already said no to that.  For me its too early, I still want him to play, but staying flexible enough that if we are leading the league in sacks allowed we should probably reconsider, or at least have that conversation.  I've changed my mind on holding out for Trent as well, if there's any truth the Pats are willing to give up a first, offer Docston with it and get it done so we can draft to o-linemen in the draft next year on top of whatever veteran(s) we bring in.  Vikings remade their entire o-line in one offseason not too long ago, this isn't impossible when its a priority.

Already said no to what?...

 

My personal opinion is...its exciting to have a first round qb on our roster that will either a.succeed b.fail. It gives me the butterflies that comes with being a skins fan...I love it..would absolutely hate living life as a patriots fan..oh cool a new year, will win the sb again..pssst  how stupid..so i want to play with my shiny new toy but I dont want any of the neighbor kids to play with it and possibly break it tho...we all know case is gonna start..I'm fine with that..I'll just bring out that old toy that's still ok to play with..but if it gets super boring I'll just get the new toy out and be careful with it....if case is 0-3 do we just use him to ride out the storm(first 5 weeks)than break out the new toy all the neighbor kids are gonna love? just be extra careful and hope for the best?...if case is 0-3 and qb play is partially to blame when does the pressure start to mount that the new toy needs to be brought out?..if coach decides to shelf the rookie for the year regardless, is he fired because he didn't bring the new toy out? My point is..I'm fine either way and just realy hope for the best all the way around lol

12 minutes ago, justice98 said:

If Penn is serviceable, and he ultimately should be at least that, then I dont think the OL will be sooooo bad that you'd be afraid to put Haskins in there.  The line should be good enough to play him.  Just gotta run the crap out of the ball and scrape together a passable LG.   

Thank you man..I wanted to reply to this thread in so many ways and ur response was one of them..

[bakedtater1]

16 minutes ago, justice98 said:

If Penn is serviceable, and he ultimately should be at least that, then I dont think the OL will be sooooo bad that you'd be afraid to put Haskins in there.  The line should be good enough to play him.  Just gotta run the crap out of the ball and scrape together a passable LG.   

Yes Yes Yes..this guy gets it!!!...This has been my thought all along..we have bill frickin callahan folks!!

 

 

#HandoffHandoffthrow

 

no one else sees the possibilities of this happening?..we have play makers folks..I'm not throwing in the towel on Reed     yet... we know v Davis is a play maker..so is thompson..we know this...we seen it..so is ap..it looks like guice will be too!!..the o line will play alot better than people think and we wont go 0-5..there, I think I was able to hit on a few different thread titles all in one thread lol

[Renegade7]

13 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Already said no to what?...

 

My personal opinion is...its exciting to have a first round qb on our roster that will either a.succeed b.fail. It gives me the butterflies that comes with being a skins fan...I love it..would absolutely hate living life as a patriots fan..oh cool a new year, will win the sb again..pssst  how stupid..so i want to play with my shiny new toy but I dont want any of the neighbor kids to play with it and possibly break it tho...we all know case is gonna start..I'm fine with that..I'll just bring out that old toy that's still ok to play with..but if it gets super boring I'll just get the new toy out and be careful with it....if case is 0-3 do we just use him to ride out the storm(first 5 weeks)than break out the new toy all the neighbor kids are gonna love? just be extra careful and hope for the best?...if case is 0-3 and qb play is partially to blame when does the pressure start to mount that the new toy needs to be brought out?..if coach decides to shelf the rookie for the year regardless, is he fired because he didn't bring the new toy out? My point is..I'm fine either way and just realy hope for the best all the way around lol

 

I agree with most of your points, we've been making a lot of the same ones lately.  I was saying no to benching him next year if the oline was still bad, that was literally my last two lines in the OP.

 

Here's the thing, I've mentioned that the fan revolt will get real after the first blowout or game Case absolutely craps the bed whether Haskins is ready or not.  A lot of people claiming they don't want Haskins out there until he's ready will flip, they won't be able to handle it.  I've wanted to drop the whole "Start him Week 1" thing because I know it isn't going to happen now on the idea of focusing on what he can do and be a run first team.

 

The thing is, and this is the catch-22, that he's going to get hit no matter when he gets in there.  My concern now is him getting hit too much regardless if he's ready to play or not.  In the future this is going to be called "Pulling a Luck" where a QB just retires because they don't believe their team is doing enough to protect them and tired of getting hurt every year.  The next candidate for pulling a Luck is Watson, I don't want Haskins in that conversation.

 

This is probably the only year we can do this and it kinda make sense.  All the sudden I would not go balistic if we pulled Haskins to the side and said we're going to make a major investment in the o-line in the offseason before putting you out there to show that we are serious about protecting you.  Luck didn't just give up on football, he gave up on the Colts doing what they needed to do to make sure he didn't keep getting hit like that.  His body gave up first, then his mind did.

[bakedtater1]

30 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

No QB should start until at least 6 years on the bench to fully develop. Why would any team risk injury to a potential franchise player until there is surety that Medicare can help assist them with their rehab bills?

Players are drafted to play. Play them when they are ready to best help their team win. Whether it be week 1 or week 8

Couldn't tell rather to give this a like or a laugh..lol this is funny bro.

[KillBill26]

I'm very excited to have Haskins, it seems he has a lot of positive attributes, but I'd like to see him sit a year to work on footwork, protections, and life as an NFL QB, while the Redskins are given another off-season to improve their below average offensive line and find a more adequate replacement for TW.

[bakedtater1]

5 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

I'm very excited to have Haskins, it seems he has a lot of positive attributes, but I'd like to see him sit a year to work on footwork, protections, and life as an NFL QB, while the Redskins are given another off-season to improve their below average offensive line and find a more adequate replacement for TW.

I like this post..realy makes sense...just prey Daniel dosent get in the way and screw **** up..

 

 

Ahhh this is such a tough topic..

 

Ok(not trying to hijack the thread).. there's only one way to know if you have a gem at QB and that's by him just going out and playing the game..I slam my fist I want DH to start but than/then cringe when thinking of the rookie getting slammed around, taking unnecessary hits.

 

This is the plan I would like to see the skins going with into the season... start Keenum, feed him to the Wolves not your possible future, we know its gonna be wolves when were talking eagles bears cowboys defenses..that's three brutal defenses folks..if case escapes with a win out of the first 5 games especially if its two and the offense had some good moments ya ride with case...if he goes 0-5 with alot of head scratching moments ya start the future.

[Going Commando]

I wish we could sit him the whole season, until something like week 17 when we're either already in the playoffs or already out.  Do him like the Chiefs did Mahomes. That's the ideal scenario.

 

But I highly doubt we get to do that.  He'll probably end up starting by the end of October.  And it's not going to be pretty or even close to ideal.  The offensive line is a real problem.  I'm probably the most consistent BPA disciple in the draft threads, but we need to spend big resources on the line in the draft this year AND we need to find significant free agency dollars for the position group too.  It needs like three to four new good players in order to be fixed for Haskins to be able to hit the ground running in 2020.

[88Comrade2000]

No. When he and the team are ready, he plays.  Haskins has to learn to play behind a weak line because injuries could wipe out a future strong o-line. 

 

It is possible more players will do what Luck did but that shouldn't prevent a team doing, what's best for them.

[theTruthTeller]

Haskins started one year in college, on a team that was favored almost every week and was stocked with offensive stars.  More than half of the OSU offensive starters were selected in the 2019 draft, including the wide receivers, who were both selected in the first three rounds.

 

I'd probably be in favor of starting him at some point in the year, despite the OL, if Gruden could tell him "Don't worry about interceptions, just let it rip."  But, of course, Gruden can't tell Haskins that, because he wants a HC job next year.  If he starts, he'll be under tremendous pressure to succeed, despite having one of the worst lines and worst receiver corps in the NFL.

 

He'll have plenty of opportunities to play in garbage time during the year to adjust to the pro game.  This isn't our Super Bowl year or even a playoff year.  Why sacrifice a kid with a lot of potential?

[Veryoldschool]

I see Luck's retirement has caused some of the "play Haskins week 1" guys to reconsider things.  I selected "Too Early To Tell."  I can't know by watching him how much he knows.   Haskins appears to understand things so I am encouraged about his long term prospects for success.   Only the coaches really know how much he has learned and what he needs to absorb yet so I defer to the coaches.  Maybe they can win with Keenum, I came away from the third game with some faint hope and I am looking forward to opening day.  Also, there is the issue of the performance of the OL, especially the left side.  Even if I thought Haskins was semi-prepared to start I'm not eager to see the rookie start behind this patched together OL.  The left side appears to be decent run blockers but I really question what kind of protection they will provide in real games, I fear very little.  So as of today, I think the Skins should start Keenum to try to get things off in a positive fashion and if he is functional keep playing him.  Playing Haskins can wait until the supporting cast improves.

[Renegade7]

58 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

He'll probably end up starting by the end of October.  And it's not going to be pretty or even close to ideal. 

 

 

Agree, and that's been my concern and part of the reason I wanted to get it out the way and him playing with the team as close to full strength as its going to get if he is going to play.  My greatest concern at least for this season is by the time he gets out there we're going to be missing starters at every level of the offense an he'll end up out there before the bye week with little to any reps with the starters.  

 

He's going to get blitzed relentlessly, his first game could end up the most anticipated/gut-wrenching redskins game in recent memory, like the 2012 Seattle playoff game, there will be a cringe moment we all look at each other and ask if we should've done something differently.  The answer will be "yes, but we choose not to"...

[Malapropismic Depository]

Haskins looks super durable.

I think he can take the punishment.

I can just see 300 pound lineman slowing down right as they're about to hit him, because he's so solid, they're afraid they might injure their own selves when they hit him.

[Voice_of_Reason]

luck was great, but he and Aaron Rodgers both hold the ball to try and make the big play often and both take shots.  

 

Its up to the coaches to make sure they protect any QB  through quick game and scheme, it's up to the QB to protect themselves. 

 

Also, let's not forget that the OL had NOTHING to do with Alex Smith getting hurt last year.  Marshall (RB) completely wiffed on a blitz pickup. 

 

It's football.  Things happen.  You prepare the best you can then you go play ball.  

 

If the coaching staff knows what they are doing, if Haskins is ready, he should play. 

[desertbeagle85]

The only reason Haskins should sit is, because he isn't ready. It has nothing to do with being afraid of injury. Sometimes QBs have to deal average or worse lines. With that being said he needs to learn how to read a defense and play the game. If he is always under pressure he'll have a hard time learning. So let him learn while watching and then throw is butt in there. Lets be clear we will all see him this year as the starter.

[Malapropismic Depository]

 

5 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

If anybody asks if I ever admit that I'm wrong, this should answer it : )

 

Kudos for you admitting it.

Isn't it kind of funny though, that in a matter of days, we've gone from specifically using Andrew Luck to justify Haskins starting right off the bat, to using Luck as a reason to wait a year ? 😁

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

Kudos for you admitting it.

Isn't it kind of funny though, that in a matter of days, we've gone from specifically using Andrew Luck to justify Haskins starting right off the bat, to using Luck as a reason to wait a year ? 😁

 

Thanks.

 

Whoever used Luck didnt make a fair comparison.  Luck was as NFL ready as any QB that ever entered the draft, that's the opposite of Haskins.  Haskins still needs to play to get more experience, Luck did not.

 

And Luck is an example of when you never fully address or prioritize the oline, I'm fine if the plan is to hold him out jus this year to better invest in the oline.

 

At the end of the day, this thread is bigger then jus how we deal with the oline this offseason.  Luck jus showed protecting your QB needs to be jus as high a priority as getting one.  That goes for their entire career and whoever comes after him.

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Thanks.

 

Whoever used Luck didnt make a fair comparison.  Luck was as NFL ready as any QB that ever entered the draft, that's the opposite of Haskins.  Haskins still needs to play to get more experience, Luck did not.

 

And Luck is an example of when you never fully address or prioritize the oline, I'm fine if the plan is to hold him out jus this year to better invest in the oline.

 

At the end of the day, this thread is bigger then jus how we deal with the oline this offseason.  Luck jus showed protecting your QB needs to be jus as high a priority as getting one.  That goes for their entire career and whoever comes after him.

 

The irony is, our OLine could possibly be even worse next year - if we're without Scherff, Williams, and Penn, and are unsuccessful in addressing it next offseason.