No Excuses Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Quote If you’re surprised that the issue of reparations for black Americans has taken so long to resolve, blame the president. President Andrew Johnson. As the Civil War wound down in 1865, Gen. William T. Sherman made the promise that would come to be known as “40 acres and a mule” — redistributing a huge tract of Atlantic coastline to black Americans recently freed from bondage. President Abraham Lincoln and Congress gave their approval, and soon 40,000 freedmen in the South had started to plant and build. Within months of Lincoln’s assassination, though, President Johnson rescinded the order and returned the land to its former owners. Congress made another attempt at compensation, but Johnson vetoed it. Now, in the early phase of the 2020 presidential campaign, the question of compensating black Americans for suffering under slavery and other forms of racial injustice has resurfaced. The current effort focuses on a congressional bill that would commission a study on reparations, a version of legislation first introduced in 1989. Several Democratic presidential hopefuls have declared their support, including Senators Kamala Harris of California, Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and Cory Booker of New Jersey and former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Julián Castro. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/23/business/economy/reparations-slavery.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 The numbers they quote seem high, but If they spread the payments out over 10 or so years, I think they could probably do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 @No Excuses Is that paywall? Can someone post the full article, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 I consider reparations of any meaningful sum being paid directly to individuals being extremely unlikely. If by some miracle it did manage to gain enough support to have a real chance, people would howl at the moon over every detail of this. On both sides. The closer it moved to an actual cash pay out the angrier both sides would become. If it passed some would argue it was too little, others too much, and everyone would be furious that their favorite budget items were drastically cut. Lawyers would benefit though. That much is certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 If these reperations to happen, I would hope that they will also be offering reparations for indentured servants and other migrants that were treated very poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 hour ago, DCSaints_fan said: The numbers they quote seem high, but If they spread the payments out over 10 or so years, I think they could probably do it. Can you post the numbers? I can't get to the article due to the paywall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 26 minutes ago, Destino said: I consider reparations of any meaningful sum being paid directly to individuals being extremely unlikely. If by some miracle it did manage to gain enough support to have a real chance, people would howl at the moon over every detail of this. On both sides. The closer it moved to an actual cash pay out the angrier both sides would become. If it passed some would argue it was too little, others too much, and everyone would be furious that their favorite budget items were drastically cut. Lawyers would benefit though. That much is certain. there would also be some not so small number of people who will (rightly) say "reparations? you think you can pay people off for hundreds of years of institutionalized oppression in the form of slavery and jim crow? i don't think so." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 23 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: Can you post the numbers? I can't get to the article due to the paywall. Quote What would Sherman’s promise be worth today? Mr. Darity has been mulling that question for years, and is writing a book on reparations with Kirsten Mullen, due out next year. He begins with the cost of an acre in 1865: about $10. Forty acres divided among a family of four comes to 10 acres per person, or about $100 for each of the four million former slaves. Taking account of compounding interest and inflation, Mr. Darity has put the present value at $2.6 trillion. Assuming roughly 30 million descendants of ex-slaves, he concluded it worked out to about $80,000 a person. To get a sense of the scale, consider that the United States budget this year is $4.7 trillion. Of course, varying any critical assumption can add or subtract billions or trillions of dollars. Thomas Craemer, an associate professor of public policy at the University of Connecticut, used the same starting point — 40 acres and a mule — but a different method in a study published last year. He used the current average price of agricultural land and figured that 40 acres of farmland and buildings would amount to roughly $123,000. If all of the four million slaves counted in the 1860 census had been able to take advantage of that offer, it would have totaled more than $486 billion today — or about $16,200 for each descendant of slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 I have turned pro-reparations over the years, but I think the bigger issue right now is really the institutional racism issues that prevent the climbing of the ladder in the first place. It doesn't hurt me any for descendants of slaves to receive a check for $16,200, but that also isn't going to work as some kind of cure-all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 26 minutes ago, grego said: there would also be some not so small number of people who will (rightly) say "reparations? you think you can pay people off for hundreds of years of institutionalized oppression in the form of slavery and jim crow? i don't think so." My response would be "No, but its a step in the right direction" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 If the dems add reparations to their 2020 platform the only logical conclusion I can draw is that they’ve punted on the election cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said: My response would be "No, but its a step in the right direction" If there were reparation payouts, they would be used to justify a halt to further action. Reparations have to come in the form of sustained economic empowerment of our black citizens who are descended from slaves. That's what they were supposed to achieve in the first place. I don't know what form that kind of empowerment could take though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: If there were reparation payouts, they would be used to justify a halt to further action. Reparations have to come in the form of sustained economic empowerment of our black citizens who are descended from slaves. That's what they were supposed to achieve in the first place. I don't know what form that kind of empowerment could take though. Well, given further action isn’t exactly happening now or in the future, I’d say a tax-free $80k check would be a good step. (insert Chappelle Show reparation day skit) Seriously though, I hadn’t even considered reparations as a thing that should be on the table until I read this: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/ Required reading, in full, for anybody commenting on the subject imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Would they deduct for back taxes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 It would be astronomically divisive. Do we really want to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Just now, nonniey said: It would be astronomically divisive. Do we really want to do that? No one is running for office with this being a high ticket issue or issue at all. This thread really isn't having to do with the election so much as just the subject itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: No one is running for office with this being a high ticket issue or issue at all. This thread really isn't having to do with the election so much as just the subject itself. So lets say my wife gets $80,000 and daughter get $80,000 this year but then we have another child next year. That child would not get anything? Or child born on 31 December would get the money but one born on 1 January would be **** of of luck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: If there were reparation payouts, they would be used to justify a halt to further action. What "further action" are you referring to? They've been waiting 150+ years for further action. 9 minutes ago, nonniey said: It would be astronomically divisive. Do we really want to do that? Desegregation was "astronomically divisive" in the 50s/60s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, nonniey said: It would be astronomically divisive. Do we really want to do that? 400 years of slavery and institutional racism has also been pretty divisive. Only difference is white people haven’t had to deal with black people getting things like rights and wealth most of that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 minute ago, nonniey said: So lets say my wife gets $80,000 and daughter get $80,000 this year but then we have another child next year. That child would not get anything? Or child born on 31 December would get the money but one born on 1 January would be **** of of luck? Maybe make it only for those 18+. Alternatively for a family the compensation for minors would lbe controlled by the parents to put into trust so they could divide it amongst any future offspring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 13 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said: Seriously though, I hadn’t even considered reparations as a thing that should be on the table until I read this: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/ Required reading, in full, for anybody commenting on the subject imo. It's interesting to hear different perspectives. I can see the good and potential bad. It could probably be done. Coleman Hughes response of sorts - https://quillette.com/2019/03/17/reparations-and-ta-nehisi-coatess-pyrrhic-victory/ Glenn Loury and John McWhorter on reparations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, nonniey said: It would be astronomically divisive. Do we really want to do that? There is never going to be a good time to work on reparations. I can't even fathom how difficult it would be to authenticate the genealogies of what could potentially be tens of millions of claimants. The longer we put off work on reparations, the more remote the ancestry will become, and the harder the task becomes. At a certain point, it would mean the debt will never be repaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: At a certain point, it would mean the debt will never be repaid. I think we’re already past that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Even if we could solve the logistical issue of accurately identifying the descendents of slaves and could come up with 2.7 trillion to 500 billion, 80k to 16k wouldn't come close to adequate reparation for slavery (anyone willing to be sold into slavery so that your children could collect 80k max?). And it doesn't even begin to address the wrongs black Americans suffered after emancipation. Not to mention that reparation will be used as an excuse against actually trying to address racial injustice in today's society. It's a bad and inadequate solution to a hugely complex problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 20 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: No one is running for office with this being a high ticket issue or issue at all. This thread really isn't having to do with the election so much as just the subject itself. They do mention some canidates have supported it Quote Democratic presidential hopefuls have declared their support, including Senators Kamala Harris of California, Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and Cory Booker of New Jersey and former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Julián Castro. Although I agree, none of them are going make it a big issue in the debates or a major part of their platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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