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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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Saw a mock recently that had the Skins taking Malik Harrison at 66. BUT, in that mock Cole Kmet was still on the board and went a couple of picks later. I doubt Kmet will get past the 2nd but if he did......in that scenario would you take Harrison or Kmet? I really like Harrison's tackling, aggressive play, and ability to quickly respond to gaps and get downhill into them fast, but I'm wary about his limitations in coverage. 

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8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Saw a mock recently that had the Skins taking Malik Harrison at 66. BUT, in that mock Cole Kmet was still on the board and went a couple of picks later. I doubt Kmet will get past the 2nd but if he did......in that scenario would you take Harrison or Kmet? I really like Harrison's tackling, aggressive play, and ability to quickly respond to gaps and get downhill into them fast, but I'm wary about his limitations in coverage.  

 

I would grade Harrison well above Kmet.  I think people are going pretty far out on a limb with how much potential is playing into their Kmet projections.  He's not even that dynamic of an athlete either.  He's going to be a two or three year project who is going to need a coaching staff that won't practice squad him before his NFL team starts to see a return on a relatively high pick invested in him.

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27 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Saw a mock recently that had the Skins taking Malik Harrison at 66. BUT, in that mock Cole Kmet was still on the board and went a couple of picks later. I doubt Kmet will get past the 2nd but if he did......in that scenario would you take Harrison or Kmet? I really like Harrison's tackling, aggressive play, and ability to quickly respond to gaps and get downhill into them fast, but I'm wary about his limitations in coverage. 

With our need of quality young linebackers, I would take Harrison and never think twice. I think he would fit well as the starting MIKE.

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Harrison would be my pick as well. I was just curious about it since TE has been a big subject as well in this thread and most people see Kmet as a 2nd round guy. But I think LB is just as much of a need as TE. Yes, we certainly have more decent depth right now at LB than TE, but I'm definitely not convinced we have the right horses for a 4-3 transition at the moment. Some of that depends on how Reuben Foster comes along, but for now I'm assuming he's not going to be fully healthy and/or may not be able to stay healthy.

 

Harrison isn't great in coverage and his sideline to sideline speed isn't upper echelon but he's a great downhill run stopping, gap shooting thumper. We could probably sub him out in 3rd down nickel packages for someone like SDH, who is excellent in coverage. 

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1 hour ago, mistertim said:

Saw a mock recently that had the Skins taking Malik Harrison at 66. BUT, in that mock Cole Kmet was still on the board and went a couple of picks later. I doubt Kmet will get past the 2nd but if he did......in that scenario would you take Harrison or Kmet? I really like Harrison's tackling, aggressive play, and ability to quickly respond to gaps and get downhill into them fast, but I'm wary about his limitations in coverage. 

Here's how I'd like to see the draft play out, MT:  1st:  EDGE, Chase Young, 3rd:  TE, Cole Kmet, 4th:  TE, Hunter Bryant, 4th:  S, Tanner Muse, 5th:  OT, Trey Adams, 7th:  WR, Austin Mack, 7th:  OT, Terrance Steele.  Cole Kmet compares to Tyler Higbee, Hunter Bryant compares to Jordan Reed give Haskins a traditional TE and HB/TE that he needs to succeed and Turner needs to make this OF flourish.  

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think it will be some order of those positions in three to seven too, but I hope it's not TE in the third because I don't think there is any value to be had there. 

 

I am ok with any permutation, I just want BPA.  My only disagreement with you is in any draft Trautman and Kmet are good value in the third.  In most other drafts to me, Kmet and Trautman would be the next run of TEs after 2-3 TE's go in the first and 2nd.   So the third round for me for both would be good value.  As to the best value at that round?  Probably not but that's not in my view because they aren't third round worthy but that this draft is insanely loaded.  I'd take Trautman or Kmet over any of the TEs that went in the third round last year.  And I dived as deep into that crop as I have on this one.  But that's just my opinion.

 

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

 Trautman is the other guy I see steadily being projected into the third and I'm not a big fan of him.  The red zone domination is the best thing about his game, but so much of that feels like he was just beating up on small players who weren't very aggressive.  IMO he's a low upside try-hard who doesn't have any explosion in his game and doesn't seem to have a great feel as a route runner or blocker. 

 

I like Trautman much more than that.  But to each their own.  I've watched probably now almost 50 receivers and tight ends combined and fairly closely.  And granted it's to my amateur eyes, Trautman was the most consistent blocker I've watched this year.    There are others I've liked who have moments where they looked really good and then they had some misses and and I just let it go because I've seen enough good.  With Trautman I rarely had to forgive plays.  He locks into his blocks well and rarely misses his man.

 

He is a try hard type stylistically  But a dude who is over 250 pounds yet runs a 3 cone better than every TE and every receiver aside from one WR -- and ran a 1.57 10 (96 percentile), is plenty of an athlete with enough explosion.    Do I find him explosive?  Not really.  But he's plenty explosive enough especially for a dude his size.

 

I do agree there is always pause about dudes that played against inferior competition.  But at the same time plenty get infatuated with small school prospects especially in this draft.  And I can't think of any of those small school players with PFF grades just about across the board like Trautman.  Great scores as a receiver and blocker.   😀

 

Usually there is something to the smoke when the team sniffs around a player.  I recall hearing they have serious interest in Guice and Payne back before that draft.  There is some smoke on that front as to their interest in Trautman.   Will see. 

 

 

 

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Edited by Skinsinparadise
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8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am ok with any permutation, I just want BPA.  My only disagreement with you is in any draft Trautman and Kmet are good value in the third.  In most other drafts to me, Kmet and Trautman would be the next run of TEs after 2-3 TE's go in the first and 2nd.   So the third round for me for both would be good value.  As to the best value at that round?  Probably not but that's not in my view because they aren't third round worthy but that this draft is insanely loaded.  I'd take Trautman or Kmet over any of the TEs that went in the third round last year.  And I dived as deep into that crop as I have on this one.  But that's just my opinion.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The only TE I found myself really liking from a value perspective is Harrison Bryant in the late fourth or early fifth.  His film is a little meh and he needs to build up his body for the NFL, but I thought he was the best TE in the class when I watched them.  TDN has him at 135, and that feels like a good bargain for him.  I've been getting him with our fifth rounder in mocks, and I'd be happy with that.

 

I like Harrison Bryant better than most but not as much as my top 4 TEs.  He'd be in the next group for me.   And within that next group, I'd probably go Hopkins by a hair over him.  Bryant didn't face the stiffest competition either.   He's a good H back type IMO, decent hands, good separating.   He's a willing blocker, and I know Zierlein who seems to be his biggest fan (from what I recall you respect Zierlein) bills him as a really good blocker, he compares him to Kittle.   I personally don't see him being a good blocker in the NFL.  I think Zierlein is off about Harrison.  But I am relatively high on Harrison especially if he's in the 5th round range than most. Like Hopkins, he can stretch the field, good YAC dude. 

 

Actually the way you describe Trautman is the way I see Harrison, instead.   He's a dude who isn't the best athlete, small wing span, small hands, not really fast or agile but he's a decent route runner especially from the slot and a try hard blocker yet he isn't that physical.

 

 

 

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Edited by Skinsinparadise

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16 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

SIP, I agree with the scouts in your two recent posts who thought we were going to take Chase Young and then a TE. 


We always TALK about taking BPA, but then draft for need. We are going OT, WR, TE, or CB with our 3rd and probably our 4th and TE looks like both the direst need and the shallowest group. 

That being said, I wouldn't mind some combination of Trautman/Edwards in the 3rd/4th or Pittman/Albert O. Our 1st next year looks destined for OT or CB. Can't fix everything at once. 

 

If ratings were perfect we would never see low round picks beat out those with higher pedigrees.  But you still need a system to make the best guess at the best players.  The scouting department does its best job and the Skins need to rely on their draft board within the scheme of the plans to build the team.  If the Skins grade a WR as a high 2nd round talent then IMO they should pick the WR over a TE if he's a mid 3rd round talent.  I have no idea where the TEs are going to be ranked!  If the TE is close in rank to the WR then it makes sense to pick the TE and hope to get a good WR value pick in the 4th round.  If a WR and OT are equally ranked then I'd go with the OT without hesitation.    

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Here's how I'd like to see the draft play out, MT:  1st:  EDGE, Chase Young, 3rd:  TE, Cole Kmet, 4th:  TE, Hunter Bryant, 4th:  S, Tanner Muse, 5th:  OT, Trey Adams, 7th:  WR, Austin Mack, 7th:  OT, Terrance Steele.  Cole Kmet compares to Tyler Higbee, Hunter Bryant compares to Jordan Reed give Haskins a traditional TE and HB/TE that he needs to succeed and Turner needs to make this OF flourish.  

 

Of my top 4, I've really landed hard on Trautman and Asiasi in that I think at least in my mind I have them figured out.   Asiasi might be the safest pick IMO among the TEs.  I personally think Trautman is going to be good -- he's also a high intangibles guy. 

 

The two TEs I am less sure about in my top 4 who IMO have more boom-bust in them are Albert O and Kmet.   I'd put more money on Kmet because of his high intangibles-reputation wise.  And I admit I love TEs who are 260 but can still move.   Albert O is almost that same size.  My pause about both is production.  In Kmet's case his production was decent but only for a season but he's coming out young at 20 so I can understand that to an extent.  Albert O I understand less as for his production to be meh.  And I agree with what PFF said about him which he doesn't play as fast as his speed times. 

 

If I can just have the draft go totally my way, my top preference would be Asiasi in the 4th.  But I am OK with any of those 4 TEs.  

 

 

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Edited by Skinsinparadise
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31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Of my top 4, I've really landed hard on Trautman and Asiasi in that I think at least in my mind I have them figured out.   Asiasi might be the safest pick IMO among the TEs.  I personally think Trautman is going to be good -- he's also a high intangibles guy. 

 

The two TEs I am less sure about in my top 4 who IMO have more boom-bust in them are Albert O and Kmet.   I'd put more money on Kmet because of his high intangibles-reputation wise.  And I admit I love TEs who are 260 but can still move.   Albert O is almost that same size.  My pause about both is production.  In Kmet's case his production was decent but only for a season but he's coming out young at 20 so I can understand that to an extent.  Albert O I understand less as for his production to be meh.  And I agree with what PFF said about him which he doesn't play as fast as his speed times. 

 

If I can just have the draft go totally my way, my top preference would be Asiasi in the 4th.  But I am OK with any of those 4 TEs.  

I respect your posts as you know, SIP.  Bryant show me a lot of speed and good hands.  Like NFL.com compares him to Reed and I can see that.  Having someone who can play similar to Reed with good hands and speed and I think may block better as a HB than Reed does is a plus for our system.  Having Kmet as the conventional TE also works well too.  I have no problems at all with Trautmen at #66 instead of Kmet either. :) 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I respect your posts as you know, SIP.  Bryant show me a lot of speed and good hands.  Like NFL.com compares him to Reed and I can see that.  Having someone who can play similar to Reed with good hands and speed and I think may block better as a HB than Reed does is a plus for our system.  Having Kmet as the conventional TE also works well too.  I have no problems at all with Trautmen at #66 instead of Kmet either. :) 

I can justify anyone of the 4 I mentioned (Trautman, Kmet, Asiasi, Albert O) but in my view Trautman and Asiasi are the safest among those 4.   

 

I don't mind the point that some make that they hope they aren't going with a TE in the third.  I am not sure if I would either.  But I won't flip out if they do it.  It doesn't seem crazy to me.  I can justify a TE in the third without losing my lunch on draft day.  😀  It all depends on who else is available. 

 

As for Harrison Bryant.  I think he and Hunter Bryant and Hopkins are in the Reed mode albeit I'd be surprised if they end up as good.  They can separate, they can catch.  All three are dubious to me as players I'd trust blockers but IMO all better at it than Jordan Reed.  Deguara might be interesting too among the H back types because he's not as good IMO at separating as the other 3 but he has good hands and is a better blocker than them. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I can justify anyone of the 4 I mentioned (Trautman, Kmet, Asiasi, Albert O) but in my view Trautman and Asiasi are the safest among those 4.   

 

I don't mind the point that some make that they hope they aren't going with a TE in the third.  I am not sure if I would either.  But I won't flip out if they do it.  It doesn't seem crazy to me.  I can justify a TE in the third without losing my lunch on draft day.  😀  It all depends on who else is available. 

 

As for Harrison Bryant.  I think he and Hunter Bryant and Hopkins are in the Reed mode albeit I'd be surprised if they end up as good.  They can separate, they can catch.  All three are dubious to me as players I'd trust blockers but IMO all better at it than Jordan Reed.  Deguara might be interesting too among the H back types because he's not as good IMO at separating as the other 3 but he has good hands and is a better blocker than them. 

 

Sorry you got what I was saying about Hunter Bryant. :)

Edited by RWJ

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Trautman's combine numbers are a bit mystifying to me. His 10 yard split and 3 cone were both elite but his 40 time and broad were very meh. With that 10 yard split you generally think explosion but then his broad and vertical (which tend to measure explosion) were meh and good but not great, in order. His 3 cone split was nuts for a guy that size so maybe he's one of those guys with really good short area quicks and who can get in and out of breaks fast, but just doesn't have that top gear. That being said when I watch him on tape he looks faster than a 4.8 guy so maybe he plays faster than his timed speed indicates. Then again, some of that could have to do with going up against inferior competition. 

 

It's always tough to grade out those small school guys and how they'll translate to the NFL. 

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13 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Sorry you got what I was saying about Hunter Bryant. :)

 

Yeah I'd agree about Hunter Bryant, he'd be my closest comp to Jordan Reed.  If I am just going with a TE purely as a route running receiver type -- Hunter IMO is the best TE in that group.

 

The reason why I struggle to fall hard for him is his size.  He's not much of a blocker albeit he's a willing blocker.    And for a 6 '2 dude, ballooning up to almost 250 for the combine just seemed out of place, I think it cost him as for his speed/athletic skills. 

 

But yeah if there is one dude who reminds me of Jordan Reed, IMO Hunter would be the closet to that. 

 

 

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Wilson, the Wyoming LB wasn't even drafted in a lot of mocks 2 months ago and now, he seems to be around the 4rth and sneaking into day 2.

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Bachie is a straight run defender. Very limited in coverage. Plays downhill but not particularly explosive or inspiring, but he's a good hand in the sense he'll get himself in position to make a play. The coverage part is an issue and he's not a range guy. It seems like most of his penetration tackles came on twists and blitzes and not so much trigger. He also failed a PED test in 2019. 

 

He is a very smart player and plays instinctually. But there are a few too many red flags and I'm not sure he's a better base MIKE than Holcomb could be, Bostic is or KPL is. Maybe. But Bachie may be a later round snag at MIKE.

 

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Wilson, the Wyoming LB wasn't even drafted in a lot of mocks 2 months ago and now, he seems to be around the 4rth and sneaking into day 2.

 

He's phenomenal. He plays downhill, instinctually and is pretty good in coverage. He has a quick trigger and he's quick to the POA. He's very disciplined in pursuit and rarely over pursues.  He's ****ing smart. 

 

Thing I see with him is that he's a zone drop backer and not a man coverage guy. But he's probably a 2-down MIKE in the NFL as well. He's not terribly fast sideline to sideline but his instincts make up for that. 

 

He's my current "want" in the third if he's there. Him, Davis-Gaither and Dugger are all atop my third round draft choice leaderboard. Not sure they'll all be there, though. 

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