Fergasun Posted March 13 Author Share Posted March 13 I have a little bit of background in engineering instructions and procedures. I don't want to defend the technicians who peformed the procedures, but I am not sure the hotel key card or soap really alarm me that much, so much as the lack of feedback and communication back to the engineers/instruction writers. So sure, there could be "gap check" tool that is used and someone likely said "why not use a hotel key card"... does the key card match the gap? The leak test with soap probably says something like, "perform a bubble test using appropriate medium". So, yes... it's likely tribal knowledge that's no documented. And if everything is working, why bother updating procedures. They didn't say "FAA inspected 3000 steps and found step failures." The FAA should do these audits more regularly.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 9 minutes ago, Fergasun said: The FAA should do these audits more regularly.... You should watch the John Oliver video, in it he covers the fact that the FAA auditors were Boeing employees, which is an obvious conflict of interest. I think rather that "FAA should do these audits more regularly" it should be audits should actually be done by the FAA and not Boeing moving forward, as well as more regularly. The FAA is not innocent in all of this. They failed to audit properly for quite a while. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 If the FAA wanted to offload the audit responsibility, they should make airbus audit Boeing and Boeing audit airbus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 2 minutes ago, tshile said: If the FAA wanted to offload the audit responsibility, they should make airbus audit Boeing and Boeing audit airbus. Wink wink nudge nudge, let’s never share each others fudge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 1 hour ago, Fergasun said: And if everything is working, why bother updating procedures. About that... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 3 hours ago, tshile said: If the FAA wanted to offload the audit responsibility, they should make airbus audit Boeing and Boeing audit airbus. No. That's probably worse. At least the Boeing employee knows the systems and where to look (if they choose to). They need a major reset. Big leadership changes to institute culture changes. But that's not as good for short term stock prices. They're about to find out what their planes falling out of the sky does to their stock prices short and long term. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 3 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Wink wink nudge nudge, let’s never share each others fudge. Given the current situation- I don’t know that it would be bad thing. the goal is safe and reliable air travel, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 12 hours ago, dfitzo53 said: Toothpaste with baking soda is more or less a polishing agent. Yep, it's how I've always cleaned my jewelry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 It’s hard to see how Boeing survives this. It may survive via government takeover, or total rebrand and reorg. But it’s in for a rough ride. DOJ criminal investigations consumers avoiding flights with their planes carriers halting orders It’s going to be hard to get through all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) I think @CousinsCowgirl84 is right, they will be considered top big to fail, much as the auto companies were. Plus they are one of only 2 major aircraft manufacturers in the world. We don’t want that disappearing from this country. If necessary, there will be some sort of government intervention. They may come under a consent decree. Edited March 13 by China Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted March 13 Author Share Posted March 13 Ok. My level of concern for their production control is rising. Quote "To date, we still do not know who performed the work to open, reinstall, and close the door plug on the accident aircraft," Homendy [NTSB Chairman] wrote to Sens. Maria Cantwell and Ted Cruz. "Boeing has informed us that they are unable to find the records documenting this work." That is crazy!!!!!!!!! Systems that track maintenance data like this are trivial. I would assume any production of any thing as complicated as a car or airplane has a step by step record of who did each step. I mean, its a $100M plane. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 8 hours ago, Cooked Crack said: For some reason I thought this was old news, like 6months plus… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 1 hour ago, China said: I think @CousinsCowgirl84 is right, they will be considered top big to fail, much as the auto companies were. Plus they are one of only 2 major aircraft manufacturers in the world. We don’t want that disappearing from this country. If necessary, there will be some sort of government intervention. They may come under a consent decree. Right - but Boeing as it exists currently will not be how it exists in the future. I imagine entire c-suite turnover, as well as upper management. They may need to rebrand, or maybe even broken up. My point is I think we’ve reached a point where it’s clear something very drastic will occur with Boeing. but it’s just my opinion. also just my opinion - I cannot help but wonder if the Air Force One contract going to airbus was somehow based on certainly people having an understanding this was how things were at Boeing, and determining there’s no way in hell they’ll use their planes for the next generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 2 minutes ago, tshile said: Right - but Boeing as it exists currently will not be how it exists in the future. I imagine entire c-suite turnover, as well as upper management. They may need to rebrand, or maybe even broken up. My point is I think we’ve reached a point where it’s clear something very drastic will occur with Boeing. but it’s just my opinion. also just my opinion - I cannot help but wonder if the Air Force One contract going to airbus was somehow based on certainly people having an understanding this was how things were at Boeing, and determining there’s no way in hell they’ll use their planes for the next generation. I’m surprised the axe hasn’t fallen on the C-suite already. I don’t know exactly who did what, but standards suddenly dropping for a major trusted brand is a well known story by now. It just usually doesn’t happen to airplanes that might fall out of the sky. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 I thought Boeing had the air force one contract. Would be interesting is they went with airbus since it is owned by the French. 2 minutes ago, Destino said: I’m surprised the axe hasn’t fallen on the C-suite already. I don’t know exactly who did what, but standards suddenly dropping for a major trusted brand is a well known story by now. It just usually doesn’t happen to airplanes that might fall out of the sky. Boeing has had a lot of ceos churn through in the last 10 or so years…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Destino said: I’m surprised the axe hasn’t fallen on the C-suite already. I don’t know exactly who did what, but standards suddenly dropping for a major trusted brand is a well known story by now. It just usually doesn’t happen to airplanes that might fall out of the sky. My guess is it’ll happen soon to save face. Don’t think it’ll help much short term. Edited March 13 by tshile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) 32 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: I thought Boeing had the air force one contract. Would be interesting is they I know Boeing disputed it and I’m not sure how it finalized but if I recall correctly they originally chose airbus edit: well I can’t find any articles on it so maybe I just made that up 😂 Edited March 13 by tshile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 21 minutes ago, tshile said: My guess is it’ll happen soon to save face. Don’t think it’ll help much short term. The damage is done, there is nothing that will help in the short term. There is now a non negligible number of passengers do not want to fly on Boeing aircraft. Reporting on this will continue and so will the bad news as investigations progress. Whatever damage they did to cut costs and boost profits by cracking the whip on labor while cutting corners will take time to undo. Even if they wanted to undo it immediately it’s likely not possible. Quality is easier to lose than reestablish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 3 hours ago, Destino said: The damage is done, there is nothing that will help in the short term. There is now a non negligible number of passengers do not want to fly on Boeing aircraft. Reporting on this will continue and so will the bad news as investigations progress. Whatever damage they did to cut costs and boost profits by cracking the whip on labor while cutting corners will take time to undo. Even if they wanted to undo it immediately it’s likely not possible. Quality is easier to lose than reestablish. Instead of fixing it, they’ll probably just “reorganize” and rebrand. By reorganize I mean move all the corporate assets into another entity and leave the liabilities in the empty husk of former Boeing, but pretty much be the same thing run by mostly the same people. Edited March 14 by PleaseBlitz 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 39 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: Instead of fixing it, they’ll probably just “reorganize” and rebrand. By reorganize I mean move all the corporate assets into another entity and leave the liabilities in the empty husk of former Boeing, but pretty much be the same thing run by mostly the same people. We really need a law that says this sort of reorganization opens executives personal assets to a companies creditors for no more than the total compensation received by executives, including stock sales, during their time time with the company. It’s theft and it screws over a lot of working people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 7 hours ago, Fergasun said: That is crazy!!!!!!!!! Systems that track maintenance data like this are trivial. Which airline was it that had to completely shut down for several days, because they couldnt tell flight crews when to show up for work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 8 hours ago, Fergasun said: Systems that track maintenance data like this are trivial. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 15 hours ago, Destino said: There is now a non negligible number of passengers do not want to fly on Boeing aircraft. https://jalopnik.com/this-website-lets-you-search-for-flights-that-don-t-use-1851332453 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 On 3/12/2024 at 5:57 PM, dfitzo53 said: Toothpaste with baking soda is more or less a polishing agent. On 3/13/2024 at 6:38 AM, skinsmarydu said: Yep, it's how I've always cleaned my jewelry. i dunno.... sounds like WAY too much abrasion for my jewels 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now