Where is the Outrage over Boeing 737-MAX?

[mcsluggo]

On 3/7/2024 at 8:48 PM, China said:

 

 

the people commenting in this thread need to watch this.       John Oliver is a national treasure (for the USA!   woot!!)  and this is EXACTLY focused on the subjects at hand here.    those of us that are geezers (or at least older than 35 or so) have a view of Boeing from its historical position as an engineering focused and driven institution.   I knew several old Boeing engineers (from when i was young... so back in the days before color or electricity) and there was a notable and surprising level of universal pride and dedication to the company.   That company doesn't exist anymore.   The current Boeing is actually McDonnell Douglas with a name change

 

---- For those young turks in the audience... McDonnell Douglas used to join Boeing and Airbus as the third airplane manufacturer... until their shady management and crap quality control caused the firm to tank, and "be taken over" by Boeing...  except it turns out that McDonnell Douglas ate Boeing, rather than the other way around.

 

this story is just McDonnell Douglas tanking yet again, exactly like they did 20 years ago.   It has just taken them this long to finish using up and monetizing all the residual Boeing engineering and name brand value.

[tshile]

3 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

this story is just McDonnell Douglas tanking yet again, exactly like they did 20 years ago.   It has just taken them this long to finish using up and monetizing all the residual Boeing engineering and name brand value.

Yes. It takes a while to destroy rigorous engineering processes. 
 

and it is very hard to put them back in place especially since destroying them in the first place resorts in a money issue

 

americans have an unhealthy infatuation with the stock market, and in many ways don’t even understand the thing they’re obsessed with. 
 

worse - the people responsible have made a ton of money and likely have a golden parachute in place for when they are kicked out. None of them will see prison. Whatever find there are will be handled by the org. 
 

I’ve always thought that if you wanted to stop rich people from doing things that are devastating to the rest of us - put them in prison. Fines are meaningless. Put them in prison and suddenly it matters and others take note. Purdue pharma is a great recent example. 

[skinsmarydu]

Lockheed?  

Hubby's stepfather was an engineer there, and when my husband took over his local industrial rubber plant, that was his first contract.  Had it for decades. 

[PleaseBlitz]

I'm trying to think of precedents for US companies that straight up went away due to incompetence (not due to changing market circumstances like Blockbuster or Sears).

 

My list so far is Union Carbide, which still exists as part of Dow Chemical, and a bunch of financial institutions that made bad bets.  Enron, but that was basically intentional.  

 

It's not a long list. 

[Fergasun]

@PleaseBlitz

 

Ahem.. I just happened to think of a certain regional big box electronics store...

Quote

In late 1988, Circuit City had an opportunity to purchase Best Buy, a growing competitor at the time, for US$30 million (~$64.4 million in 2022). The offer was rejected by Richard Sharp, Circuit City's CEO, since he believed they could open a store in Best Buy's home territory of Minneapolis and easily beat the competitor.[18]

...

Quote

In July 2000, Circuit City abandoned the large appliance business in all stores to make space for more small electronics. This was controversial because in the previous year Circuit City was the second largest appliance retailer in the United States, behind only Sears. The company had earned nearly US$1.6 billion in sales revenue from large appliances in 1999. However, executives were concerned about the competition from Home Depot and Lowe's and believed there would be big savings in warehouse storage and delivery costs if they quit the large appliance business. It was later realized that Circuit City thus missed out on the residential housing boom of the mid-2000s, which saw a dramatic rise in new-appliance sales.

 

[tshile]

NRA might qualify 

 

also maybe eventually the GOP/RNC 😂 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Circuit City kinda/sorta morphed into CarMax.  So there is a flameout there, but…how’s HHGregg doing?

[Spaceman Spiff]

17 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

Circuit City kinda/sorta morphed into CarMax.  So there is a flameout there, but…how’s HHGregg doing?

 

I remember seeing an HH Gregg right after it opened and thinking "what the **** is the point of that?" 

[PleaseBlitz]

22 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

@PleaseBlitz

 

Ahem.. I just happened to think of a certain regional big box electronics store...

...

 

 

I guess, but Circuit City was still opening stores seven years later.  CC basically got outcompeted by Best Buy and was also a victim of the general disappearance of specialty retailers (e.g., Linens and Things, Sharper Image, Radio Shack, Toys R Us, etc.)

[PokerPacker]

Supposedly the Boeing whistleblower that "killed himself" told a friend that if anything happens, it's not suicide.
 

 

[DCSaints_fan]

On 3/12/2024 at 5:01 PM, China said:

Just ask yourself how many options you have.  2,  Airbus and Boeing.  What do you do if you have no choice but to take Boeing?  Not go?

Fly private?

 

Not that it would be cheap ... but I think you might be able to get away with "only" 3-4x a commercial flight. ..

 

[DCSaints_fan]

None of the last three CEOs of Boeing going back to 2005 have had a background in engineering or even aviation.  They've all been pure businessmen/marketers/accountants/"finance bros".  I guess this is what you get when the leader lacks an appropriate background  

[China]

United CEO promises safety review; Boeing woes continue

 

An Alaska Airlines flight from Arlington, Virginia, landed safely in Portland, Oregon, after the plane’s inner windshield cracked during descent Monday.

 

According to the airline, the windshield suffered a small crack, but with the plane’s five-layer windows, it was able to land safely without a loss of pressure. The plane, a Boeing 737, was carrying 159 passengers and six crew members at the time and will be inspected and repaired by engineers on the ground.

 

In the meantime, United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby acknowledged recent safety problems on some of its planes.

 

The letter to customers came after a United flight landed safely in Oregon after a panel fell off the bottom of the fuselage. The plane? Also a Boeing 737.

 

Boeing has made headlines with other safety issues, including a door plug that blew off the fuselage of a plane midflight. The Boeing 737 has also had other parts fly off in the air and has experienced engines catching fire.

 

Boeing is already under intense scrutiny from regulatory agencies, but United has also promised to sharpen its focus on safety.

 

The letter reads in part, “Unfortunately, in the last few weeks, our airline has experienced a number of incidents that are reminders of the importance of safety. While they are all unrelated, I want you to know that these incidents have our attention and have sharpened our focus.”

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

The last days of the Boeing whistleblower

 

Saturday March 9 dawned as a gusty gray morning in Charleston, S.C. with thunderstorms rolling across the historic city and daggers of lightning lighting up the skies. Just after 10 AM, Rob Turkewitz was sitting in a tony lawyers’ office downtown, waiting for his client John Barnett to testify—and further his crusade for safety in the skies. “My co-counsel Brian Knowles and I were gathered around a conference table alongside Boeing's in-house counsel, and its trial lawyer from Ogletree, Deakens. It was in Ogletree’s offices, much fancier than ours, what you’d call a ‘grand door.’”

 

Turkewitz wasn’t totally surprised that Barnett was late for this round of depositions. “Downtown Charleston was flooded by one of the worst rainstorms I’ve ever seen,” he recalls. “I’d called John’s room at the Holiday Inn where he was staying at 9 AM to see if he wanted me to pick him up, but he didn’t answer.”

 

Turkewitz was especially buzzed about this session because Barnett was slated to continue the account of the production gaffes he’d allegedly witnessed up-close on the Boeing factory floor, a dramatic narrative that he’d started the previous day. Barnett, 62, had worked from 2011 to 2017 as a quality manager at the North Charleston plant that assembles the 787 Dreamliner. In that role, he’d alerted senior managers to what he called violations of legally required processes and procedures, and maintained that his warnings were being ignored. In the years following his departure, Barnett emerged as arguably the most renowned Boeing whistleblower, recounting the quality abuses he’d claimed to have witnessed to multiple media outlets.

 

Barnett’s charges had drawn fresh attention in the wake of the January 737 MAX door-plug blowout on Alaska Airlines flight 1282 just after takeoff from Portland, Ore., followed by a string of other mishaps on Boeing aircraft. In interviews after the big bang over Portland, Barnett had been scathing in his criticism of Boeing’s safety lapses, and attributed the catastrophe to the types of sloppy practices he said that he’d witnessed and flagged years earlier at the North Charleston plant.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Renegade7]

[China]

Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 passengers receive FBI letter identifying them as the victims of a possible crime

 

Passengers of the Alaska Airlines flight that was forced to make an emergency landing when a door panel blew out midair have received a letter from the FBI identifying them as victims of a possible crime.

 

The incident occurred Jan. 5, when Flight 1282 was on its way from Oregon to California with 177 people on board. The Federal Aviation Administration announced an investigation into Boeing days later.

 

Attorney Mark Lindquist, who represents passengers on the flight in litigation against Boeing and Alaska Airlines, shared the letter from the Justice Department with NBC News.

“I’m contacting you because we have identified you as a possible victim of a crime,” a victim specialist with the FBI’s Seattle division wrote in the letter.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Renegade7]

Don't give them golden parachutes...let them land on the ground like if they flew out that fd up door they approved.

[Destino]

Great article on how suits and their wall street culture killed Boeing.

https://prospect.org/infrastructure/transportation/2024-03-28-suicide-mission-boeing/

this part is extremely telling

Quote

The day after Broken Dreams premiered, Swampy got an email informing him that he’d been put on a 60-day corrective action plan four weeks earlier. His alleged offense constituted using email to communicate about process violations; the HR file noted, fictitiously, that his boss had discussed his “infraction” with him earlier.

Among the multitude of predictable sins detailed in this article this point here annoys me the most. It should be a federal crime for any company or organization to instruct members or employees to avoid documentation of problems. There is only one reason to ever do this, and it’s to avoid accountability.

[China]

Boeing hit with 32 whistleblower claims, as dead worker’s case reviewed

 

Boeing has been the subject of 32 whistleblower complaints with the workplace safety regulator in the United States during the past three years, newly obtained documents reveal, amid mounting scrutiny of standards at the beleaguered aircraft maker.

 

The figures shed light on the extent of alleged retaliation by Boeing against whistleblowers as the Virginia-based company is facing mounting questions over its safety record and standards.

 

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), which handles claims of retaliation against workers who blow the whistle on their employer, received the complaints of retaliation between December 2020 and March of this year, according to a table of figures compiled last month by officials at the agency.

 

The documents, obtained exclusively by Al Jazeera via a freedom of information request, do not provide details of the alleged workplace violations or alleged retaliation by Boeing in each case.

 

However, 13 of the complaints were filed under a statute that protects whistleblowing related to aviation safety, specifically.

 

Fifteen of the complaints were filed under a statute related to workplace safety, two were filed under the category of fraud, and one related to the control of toxic chemicals.

 

Click on the link for the full article