"Israel is for Jewish people only" - Netanyahu

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

[FuriousD]

 

Any reasonable person would agree the 2 state solution would have, should have taken care of this 70 years ago were it not for religious fanatics on both sides. 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

[Destino]

Im constantly annoyed by the coverage and political commentary complaining about “proportional response”.  That’s such a stupid standard, that it makes no sense at all.  There’s nothing about military conflicts that makes anyone want to hold to proportional standards.  Military actions are most effective when one side smashes the other into submission and ends the conflict.  An entirely lopsided outcome is the most desired outcome by all those engaged in fighting (So long as they’re the ones doing the smashing).  Endless war where each side only destroys a comparable amount, is insanity.  
 

The problem with what Israel is doing has nothing to do with proportion.  The problem is that an apartheid government demanding one group keep their eyes down while the government steals their lands and brutally oppress their people is wrong.  There’s no right amount of bombing when that’s the goal.  There’s no right way to pursue horrible ends.  These bombings recently are not the evil, they’re just a byproduct of that evil running its course.  
 

Calling for Israel to have a more proportional response is like demanding an abuser space out the beatings more evenly.  It misses the mark completely.

[PokerPacker]

We should suspend laundry services to until Netanyahu puts an end to his violence.

[bearrock]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

Im constantly annoyed by the coverage and political commentary complaining about “proportional response”.  That’s such a stupid standard, that it makes no sense at all.  There’s nothing about military conflicts that makes anyone want to hold to proportional standards.  Military actions are most effective when one side smashes the other into submission and ends the conflict.  An entirely lopsided outcome is the most desired outcome by all those engaged in fighting (So long as they’re the ones doing the smashing).  Endless war where each side only destroys a comparable amount, is insanity.  
 

The problem with what Israel is doing has nothing to do with proportion.  The problem is that an apartheid government demanding one group keep their eyes down while the government steals their lands and brutally oppress their people is wrong.  There’s no right amount of bombing when that’s the goal.  There’s no right way to pursue horrible ends.  These bombings recently are not the evil, they’re just a byproduct of that evil running its course.  
 

Calling for Israel to have a more proportional response is like demanding an abuser space out the beatings more evenly.  It misses the mark completely.

 

I'm sorry, but that's nonsense.  Your beef is not with proportionate response, but the notion that what Isreal is doing would be justifiable had it been proportionate to their claimed grievance against Hamas. 

 

Now, that's a valid debate and one many would agree with.  But that doesn't mean that proportionate response is not the appropriate doctrine to govern international conflicts that doesn't rise to full scale war.  If shock and awe was the order of the day for every use of force, you would either end up leveling the planet or most transgressions that would call for a proportionate response now would go unaddressed because you wouldn't want to carpet bomb a country for acts of aggression that doesn't rise to acts of war.  

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

[Larry]

42 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

.... on the exact same day Israel recognizes the nation of Palestine. 

[PokerPacker]

44 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

What about the right of Palestinians to exist?

[Barry.Randolphe]

On 5/21/2021 at 6:42 PM, visionary said:

 

 

 

 

 

This is a ****ing cop-out and they know it. There's no threat to Israel except from the Iranians...and the Arab states are willing to work with them against that threat as evident by the **** deal Kushner worked on.

 

 

[bearrock]

2 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

 

This is a ****ing cop-out and they know it. There's no threat to Israel except from the Iranians...and the Arab states are willing to work with them against that threat as evident by the **** deal Kushner worked on.

 

Even the moderate factions in Palestine wants a full right of return.  Regardless of whether such a right is the moral thing to do, it is a non-starter for Isreal because granting right of return for refugees from '48 and the Six Day War would render Jewish people the minority in Isreal.  There is no way Isreal would go for that.  Supposedly even Abbas admitted in private conversation that full right of return would be illogical for Isreal.  Isreal has been open to financial compensation, limited candidates for right of return, and resettlement assistance, but insisting on a full right of return mean turning over control of Isreal to an Arab majority.  It's a deal breaker and to insist on it means Palestine is really saying we don't want a deal.  There has been no shortage of atrocities and idiocies by Isreal, especially under Netanyahu, but let's not pretend those in charge of Palestine has been a paragon of virtue either.  

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Larry]

48 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

This is a ****ing cop-out and they know it. There's no threat to Israel except from the Iranians

The rockets being fired at Israel may not be a threat to their existence. But it's not like they're obligated to just tolerate it. 

[Xameil]

Ok....I need to just play devils advocate here that some may have forgotten which MAY explain why Israel is doing what they are doing...I do this by asking a simple question.

 

What group of people throughout ALL of history have been enslaved, tortured, killed, been threatened to have their "existence wiped out", discriminated against, etc.?

 

And to quote Chris Rock "I don't condone the action, but I understand it"

[Barry.Randolphe]

2 hours ago, Larry said:

The rockets being fired at Israel may not be a threat to their existence. But it's not like they're obligated to just tolerate it. 

 

the rockets started because the IDF allowed illegal settlers to go in and illegally steal Palestinian homes in Sheikh Jarrah as well as flash bombing Al Aqsa during Ramadan while people were praying. It was pretty much expected at that point for Hamas to retaliate.

 

This is the point of contention for the Palestinians - how can you negotiate in good-faith with the Israelis when they keep stealing land (particularly the desirable parts the Palestinians still have)? Think of these settlers like MAGA morons that stormed the capitol building...only it's not Trump they're fired up about, it's bringing about the end times....so even ****ing crazier.

[The Sisko]

On 5/17/2021 at 5:35 PM, visionary said:

 

 

I honestly don’t get why the admin is being so pro-Israel when it’s really hurting them with the left to do so and from what I’ve seen attitude has swung pretty handily against Israel in general in the US.  I have yet to hear much support for them other than from some politicians.

If one thinks about it, evangelicals and the right were really anti-semitic and it was a stroke of genius for AIPAC, the military industrialists or whomever was responsible for it to to pursue the path of targeting evangelicals for "conversion" from "Them Jews killed Christ!" and "Remember The USS Liberty and the Protocols of Zion" to "We still shhhh🤫hate the Jews, but at least the Israelis aren't sand N*****s and the end times demands we support 'em". Moreover, they picked the right side. If they'd tried to get the kind of blank check support they wanted by starting with Dems, Israel would have been overrun by the Arabs long ago. Instead, they courted the short bus crowd and the Dems came along in lockstep due to fear of being called soft.

 

On 5/22/2021 at 8:30 PM, Larry said:

The rockets being fired at Israel may not be a threat to their existence. But it's not like they're obligated to just tolerate it. 

 

On 5/22/2021 at 9:29 PM, Xameil said:

Ok....I need to just play devils advocate here that some may have forgotten which MAY explain why Israel is doing what they are doing...I do this by asking a simple question.

 

What group of people throughout ALL of history have been enslaved, tortured, killed, been threatened to have their "existence wiped out", discriminated against, etc.?

 

And to quote Chris Rock "I don't condone the action, but I understand it"

I absolutely agree that it's a historical fact that the Jews have been history's go-to scapegoat and they really needed a homeland. I can even get on board with Palestine being an appropriate place for it since at least some of the toe-hold they gained there was due to Palestinians selling land to them. That said, while nobody expects Israel to tolerate terrorism from the Arabs, most people are willing to quietly ignore what would amount to daily acts of war and war crimes if Palestine was a recognized country. If another country blockaded the US, how many in this country wouldn't see that as an act of war? And if that blockade was used to prevent access to medical care, sanitation and a host of other things necessary for life and dignity, we'd certainly classify it as state terrorism or war crimes. Most people also ignore the terrorism on both sides that accompanied Israel's creation and Israel's shrugging off those terrorists acts as inconsequential when it was them committing them. Nobody's hands are clean in this situation but our policy and propaganda say exactly the opposite.

 

It's high time S. Africa style anti-apartheid policies targeted at Israel are implemented. Yet another reason it's a good thing that the evangelical movement and religion in general are on the decline in the US.

Edited May 24, 2021 by The Sisko

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[PokerPacker]

3 hours ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

YES!  Now time to send him to prison where he'll have to do everyone else's laundry!

[visionary]

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

So where the strikes on hamas earlier this month about showing Netanyahu was tough on Palestinians to avoid this coalition from forming?

 

I guess after the cease fire they decided he was too passive?

[China]

Netanyahu challenge to legality of rival's PM bid is rebuffed

 

A last-gasp legal challenge by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to thwart a bid by a rival rightist to head a new government was rejected on Tuesday as his opponents raced to seal a pact that would unseat him.

 

Naftali Bennett, Netanyahu's former defence minister, announced on Sunday he would join a proposed alliance with centrist opposition leader Yair Lapid, serving as its premier first under a rotation deal.

 

They have until Wednesday midnight (2100 GMT) to present a final pact to Rivlin, who handed Lapid the task of forming a new government after Netanyahu failed to do so in the wake of a close election on March 23.

 

Hoping to beat the deadline, Lapid, Bennett and other party leaders convened to clinch coalition agreements, sources briefed on the talks said.

 

In a letter to the legal counsels of the presidency and parliament, Netanyahu's conservative Likud said Lapid was not authorised to cede the premiership to Bennett.

 

But President Reuven Rivlin's office said in response that there was no legal merit to Likud's claim because Lapid would be sworn in as "alternate prime minister", second to serve as premier as part of the rotation.

 

It accepted Likud's argument that Lapid must provide the president with full details of the new government and not just announce that he has clinched a coalition deal.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[mcsluggo]

On 5/22/2021 at 7:37 PM, Barry.Randolphe said:

 

This is a ****ing cop-out and they know it. There's no threat to Israel except from the Iranians...and the Arab states are willing to work with them against that threat as evident by the **** deal Kushner worked on.

 

 

 

the deal kusner worked on..?  ignore actual palestinian requirements/needs, but give away random other arab countries governments huge diplomatic plums that they have been coveting for decades if they are willing to sign non-binding "memorandums of agreement" on vague long run shared goals ...?   

 

THOSE deals??