The Washington Nationals Thread: The Future is Near!

[TradeTheBeal!]

Benji on Soto at +400

[skinsmarydu]

nm, wrong thread

Edited July 18, 2022 by skinsmarydu

[@DCGoldPants]

 

 

 

 

[Riggo#44]

The new owners are the biggest wild card, and we cannot get new owners fast enough. But I'm already emotionally divesting myself from Soto. I was sure they'd resign Harper. I'm sure they'll trade Soto.

[CRobi21]

Soto in the hrd finals. Mejia is all over the place as his pitcher. Everytime a Nat is in the hrd their pitchers are awful.
 

Rodriguez probably gonna cruise to a W in the finals.

[Renegade7]

Happy for Soto for winning HRD...jus feels bittersweet with everything going on, will jus enjoy the moment, future be damned...

Edited July 19, 2022 by Renegade7

[Dan T.]

Maybe I’m just imagining it but the vibe between Juan and Davey is not good. 
 

 

[Riggo#44]

27 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

Maybe I’m just imagining it but the vibe between Juan and Davey is not good. 
 

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Wooooooow did Juan Soto just get more expensive @Riggo#44?

[Riggo#44]

Official spokesperson for Scott Boras & Co. chimes in. But, you know, he doesn't negotiate in the media...

 

[@DCGoldPants]

Went to the Derby in DC. As crazy as it is when a guy is inching towards winning, or having a player for the host team winning. I think the most fun was during the commercial breaks when they'd do stuff like have two college kids do a speed round with metal bats. 

 

Good for Juan. Props for being so focused to go out and win this. 

[Ball Security]

After reading what Heyman (Boras mouthpiece) and Rosenthal (Lerners mouthpiece) have said over the past few days, my view of the situation is this: 

 

The Lerners want to get a deal done before they sell.  They have been dealing with Boras/Soto for awhile now, but the Boras/Soto deadline is much further out.  I don’t believe they are negotiating right now, but are allowing the Nationals to put offers in front of them.

 

I don’t think Soto necessarily wants to leave (I think there is a much likelier chance that he stays than Harper or Machado in Baltimore), but he wants to control the process.

 

The Lerners, through Rosenthal, puts out the trade rumors to speed up the process.  This pisses Soto off because he has to doesn’t want to deal with questions as to why he turned down the largest deal

in history.

 

I don’t see this getting resolved until there is new ownership.

[Renegade7]

Jesus, dude, please just retire already : (

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10038626-mlb-rumors-stephen-strasburg-expected-to-miss-rest-of-season-but-avoid-surgery

[@DCGoldPants]

19 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Jesus, dude, please just retire already : (

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10038626-mlb-rumors-stephen-strasburg-expected-to-miss-rest-of-season-but-avoid-surgery

agreed.

 

He's going to keep trying to avoid surgery now while trying to come back every year because of that salary. Man, talk about lose/lose picking between Rendon and him. Neither can stay healthy now, and if they went with neither. The place would have melted down. Even if they had just tried to extend Turner and Soto after 19.

 

Talk about bad luck.

[Riggo#44]

26 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

After reading what Heyman (Boras mouthpiece) and Rosenthal (Lerners mouthpiece) have said over the past few days, my view of the situation is this: 

 

The Lerners want to get a deal done before they sell.  They have been dealing with Boras/Soto for awhile now, but the Boras/Soto deadline is much further out.  I don’t believe they are negotiating right now, but are allowing the Nationals to put offers in front of them.

 

I don’t think Soto necessarily wants to leave (I think there is a much likelier chance that he stays than Harper or Machado in Baltimore), but he wants to control the process.

 

The Lerners, through Rosenthal, puts out the trade rumors to speed up the process.  This pisses Soto off because he has to doesn’t want to deal with questions as to why he turned down the largest deal

in history.

 

I don’t see this getting resolved until there is new ownership.

The only reason Boras is pissed is because the Lerners beat him to the media punch. But I think you're dead on. All of this noise, which is exhausting, is just that--noise. Soto isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

[@DCGoldPants]

Prospective buyers are probably telling the Lerners to sign him if they can. That the franchise is worth more to them with him here as the face. Boras does what he does. Probably also thinks that if they wait until new ownership with deep pockets. They can get more then than now.

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, @DCGoldPants said:

agreed.

 

He's going to keep trying to avoid surgery now while trying to come back every year because of that salary. Man, talk about lose/lose picking between Rendon and him. Neither can stay healthy now, and if they went with neither. The place would have melted down. Even if they had just tried to extend Turner and Soto after 19.

 

Talk about bad luck.

 

Yeah, it's been a confluence of bad luck, bad drafting, and bad development. But kudos to Rizzo for cutting bait when it was immediately apparent we weren't going to compete--rather than try and hang on to aging stars like the Phillies did in 2010-2014. The right decision is rarely easy or popular...

 

I do wonder how many people complaining about trading Turner and Scherzer, and potentially Soto--also still complain about letting Harper walk for nothing...

I also wonder how many people screaming "just pay him!"--also complain about giving Stras and Corbin huge deals.

Just now, @DCGoldPants said:

Prospective buyers are probably telling the Lerners to sign him if they can. That the franchise is worth more to them with him here as the face. Boras does what he does. Probably also thinks that if they wait until new ownership with deep pockets. They can get more then than now.

I caught some of Thom Loverro on 106.7 this morning--he brought up another aspect of this that is very sexy to prospective owners: payroll flexibility. New owners would also appreciate a team like the O's, with all those cheap, young future Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers on their team, with a low payroll and tons of flexibility. 

[@DCGoldPants]

Just now, Riggo#44 said:

 

Yeah, it's been a confluence of bad luck, bad drafting, and bad development. But kudos to Rizzo for cutting bait when it was immediately apparent we weren't going to compete--rather than try and hang on to aging stars like the Phillies did in 2010-2014. The right decision is rarely easy or popular...

 

I do wonder how many people complaining about trading Turner and Scherzer, and potentially Soto--also still complain about letting Harper walk for nothing...

I also wonder how many people screaming "just pay him!"--also complain about giving Stras and Corbin huge deals.

 

Yeah, I don't know if it would have been possible to get it right without a time machine to see how everything played out. In the past 5 years, they had a WS, 2 HR Derby Champs, coming off a decade of making the post season at least every other year. And being look at as trash again. It's weird. 

 

If they had more younger guys ready to get run over old journeymen this year. I think that would been the only better situation possible. 

[Ball Security]

3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Yeah, it's been a confluence of bad luck, bad drafting, and bad development. But kudos to Rizzo for cutting bait when it was immediately apparent we weren't going to compete--rather than try and hang on to aging stars like the Phillies did in 2010-2014. The right decision is rarely easy or popular...

 

I do wonder how many people complaining about trading Turner and Scherzer, and potentially Soto--also still complain about letting Harper walk for nothing...

I also wonder how many people screaming "just pay him!"--also complain about giving Stras and Corbin huge deals.

I agree with the first paragraph.  For the second, I can only answer for myself, but I was good with letting Harper walk and good with the Dodgers trade.  For the Strasburg/Rendon situation, I don’t think it was a choice as one wanted to leave and one was willing to stay.  We got burned on the Strasburg/Corbin deals, but it’s just a hefty tax for winning the WS.  They make a combined $70M in 2024.  At least Corbin takes the ball every five days.  On a rebuilding team that has some value.

I am one of those screaming to pay Soto, but I do think what they put in front of him is a very fair deal.  AAV be damned.  He’d be making more money in his age 24, 25, 34, 35, 36, 37, and 38 seasons than if he went year to year.  I understand him turning it down because he may prefer a better structure, but it’s not a lowball offer in any way.

[Riggo#44]

4 minutes ago, @DCGoldPants said:

 

Yeah, I don't know if it would have been possible to get it right without a time machine to see how everything played out. In the past 5 years, they had a WS, 2 HR Derby Champs, coming off a decade of making the post season at least every other year. And being look at as trash again. It's weird. 

 

If they had more younger guys ready to get run over old journeymen this year. I think that would been the only better situation possible. 

Just about every team that doesn't have seemingly endless resources like the Dodgers or Yankees goes through this. Everyone is criticizing the Nationals for unloading Max and Trea--when the Cubs unloaded Rizzo, Bryant, and Baez at the same time. They're setting up to unload Contreras this year too. The Astros let Cole and Correa walk for nothing. The Red Sox traded Betts. Even the Yankees (Judge) and Dodgers (Trea) are facing big free agent decisions. The Mets may lose deGrom after this year. It happens. People need to stop acting like the Nationals are the only ones who do this.

[Going Commando]

Soto is a surefire future Hall of Famer.  He's a different caliber of player than the stars that get traded or allowed to walk as they enter their prime.  You don't trade Ted Williams or Mike Trout when they are 23.  Finding him was an incredible stroke of luck--that we will not replicate any time soon--and was the reason we were able to let Harper walk for nothing.  There is no Soto waiting in the wings now and we can not keep bleeding elite talent and hope for a turnaround.

 

Let's be real, 29 million AAV is a major low ball offer for a player of his caliber.  He will absolutely get 50 million AAV on an open market.

[Riggo#44]

12 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Soto is a surefire future Hall of Famer.  He's a different caliber of player than the stars that get traded or allowed to walk as they enter their prime.  You don't trade Ted Williams or Mike Trout when they are 23.  Finding him was an incredible stroke of luck--that we will not replicate any time soon--and was the reason we were able to let Harper walk for nothing.  There is no Soto waiting in the wings now and we can not keep bleeding elite talent and hope for a turnaround.

 

Let's be real, 29 million AAV is a major low ball offer for a player of his caliber.  He will absolutely get 50 million AAV on an open market.

And people were saying Bryce Harper was a $500m player 2 years out...he got $330m and a ~$26m AAV. The only people buying they "lowballed" him are buying the Scott Boras driven bull****--the same media driven bull**** that he complained about.

 

This idea that you just give him whatever he wants is completely irrational. Yes, I absolutely want to keep Soto--but I don't want to be the Angels or Phillies either. What is too much for him? $600m? $700m? How do you build a team around him like that? And please, save me the "well the Lerners are BILLIONAIRES!!!11!! Rabblerabblerabble!!!" I don't care. Every team in sport, every business in this world has a budget and are not going to operate at a loss.

 

I'd also like to point out Ken Griffey Jr was traded, and the Mariners won 116 games the next year. Mookie Betts was traded the year after he accumulated 18 bWAR the previous two years. If the Nats cannot sign him to a rational contract--and with Boras, that's highly unlikely--you absolutely trade him.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Riggo#44

[Ball Security]

5 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Soto is a surefire future Hall of Famer.  He's a different caliber of player than the stars that get traded or allowed to walk as they enter their prime.  You don't trade Ted Williams or Mike Trout when they are 23.  Finding him was an incredible stroke of luck--that we will not replicate any time soon--and was the reason we were able to let Harper walk for nothing.  There is no Soto waiting in the wings now and we can not keep bleeding elite talent and hope for a turnaround.

 

Let's be real, 29 million AAV is a major low ball offer for a player of his caliber.  He will absolutely get 50 million AAV on an open market.

It comes down to whether or not he wants to play for the Mets in 2025.  The Yankees and Dodgers aren’t going to offer him $650M for 13 years.  The Mets absolutely could.  They could offer him 1.3B for 13 years.  So anything less than that is a lowball offer, I guess. Hell, they may pay Josh Bell 40M AAV to be Alonso’s backup and DH.

[TheDoyler23]

The most pragmatic thing would be to trade Soto for a big haul. You start there and kick off rebuilding. Find a team whose window is opening and get as much as you can. And tell Soto you hope to be the highest bidder with a team on the rise in Jan of 2025. Because he's going to the open market and Boras' clients pretty much always take the highest contract. 

 

 

[Dan T.]

2 minutes ago, TheDoyler23 said:

 Find a team whose window is opening and get as much as you can. And tell Soto you hope to be the highest bidder with a team on the rise in Jan of 2025. Because he's going to the open market and Boras' clients pretty much always take the highest contract. 

 

 

Do guys ever go back to their old team though?  Anybody got examples of this? I can't think of any off-hand. (Other than that thing of signing the one-day contract to retire from their old team.)