Ball Security Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 7 minutes ago, Dan T. said: Do guys ever go back to their old team though? Anybody got examples of this? I can't think of any off-hand. (Other than that thing of signing the one-day contract to retire from their old team.) Sir Sidney Ponson! Traded to SF for Kurt Ainsworth and two other guys - one named in the Mitchell report. He signed back to Balt that offseason. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoyler23 Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 10 minutes ago, Dan T. said: Do guys ever go back to their old team though? Anybody got examples of this? I can't think of any off-hand. (Other than that thing of signing the one-day contract to retire from their old team.) Most are way late in their careers like Griffey, Eddie Murray, etc. LeBron James did in basketball, returning to Cleveland. That's basketball where it's a superstar pickup league now (besides the Wizards....) It's not a proven concept, but remember that Boras is almost assuredly going to get him to the open market unless he's traded to somewhere like the Mets where money is no option. So trade him to a team that has an open window to win. Wish him best of luck with the Brewers/Cardinals/Rays/Mariners and hope for the best when he's available. Build with those prospects, maybe flip a couple more, etc. and see where the franchise in with new ownership. As for as Soto is concerned, it's a different organization then AND that can be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted July 19, 2022 Author Share Posted July 19, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dan T. said: Do guys ever go back to their old team though? Anybody got examples of this? I can't think of any off-hand. (Other than that thing of signing the one-day contract to retire from their old team.) Strasburg, but yeah, it's rare. I have defended the Lerners for a long time--but Ted is a much better owner than Mark. New owners can't be finalized soon enough. Edited July 19, 2022 by Riggo#44 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 5 hours ago, Ball Security said: I am one of those screaming to pay Soto, but I do think what they put in front of him is a very fair deal. AAV be damned. He’d be making more money in his age 24, 25, 34, 35, 36, 37, and 38 seasons than if he went year to year. I understand him turning it down because he may prefer a better structure, but it’s not a lowball offer in any way. It's definitely a low offer. Soto doesn't have to do anything crazy to top the value. 10+5, 10 with 6th year void for a potential 5+5+5, all would easily top 440 mil over 15 years. He could sign a 10/350 deal now (which most if not all teams would jump at) and all he would have to get is a 5 year 20 mil AAV in 10 years when he's still only 33 to top it. Nats are offering to lock him up at a discount AAV with maybe 2-3 years of tail off production. I doubt Soto wasted 2 seconds in turning that down. As it stands, he probably gets a 10 year-ish 40 mil aav in free agency. 30 aav was never gonna come close. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 17 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: Strasburg, but yeah, it's rare. I have defended the Lerners for a long time--but Ted is a much better owner than Mark. New owners can't be finalized soon enough. No. Strasburg never left. He was talking about Soto leaving via trade and then coming back to the Nats once he reached free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted July 19, 2022 Author Share Posted July 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dan T. said: No. Strasburg never left. He was talking about Soto leaving via trade and then coming back to the Nats once he reached free agency. Oh yeah, much like crying, that never happens in baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted July 19, 2022 Author Share Posted July 19, 2022 (edited) Jonathan Papelbon was the real hero: https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/nationals/jonathan-papelbon-delivers-nsfw-rant-phillies-bryce-harper Quote “It's always been kind of chaotic in Philadelphia, with the fans, with the players, with the front office. It's like a ****show there. And, for me, I see the ****show continuing. I mean, they fired their manager, what, two months into the season? As long as that stuff happens, Philadelphia will never win again. Philadelphia will never get back to the playoffs.” “When they brought in me, Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay, everybody started getting hurt, and the ****show began after that, I believe. It's been nothing but downhill for the Phillies since then, and there hasn't been anything even close to resembling a postseason team.” On Harper: Quote “I don't necessarily see him being a huge leader of the team, because he was never really a leader when I played with him. He kind of went about his own business and more was a me-guy or an I-guy, and wasn't really into what was happening in the clubhouse, and didn't have that pull for the team.” Edited July 19, 2022 by Riggo#44 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 46 minutes ago, bearrock said: It's definitely a low offer. Soto doesn't have to do anything crazy to top the value. 10+5, 10 with 6th year void for a potential 5+5+5, all would easily top 440 mil over 15 years. He could sign a 10/350 deal now (which most if not all teams would jump at) and all he would have to get is a 5 year 20 mil AAV in 10 years when he's still only 33 to top it. Nats are offering to lock him up at a discount AAV with maybe 2-3 years of tail off production. I doubt Soto wasted 2 seconds in turning that down. As it stands, he probably gets a 10 year-ish 40 mil aav in free agency. 30 aav was never gonna come close. He can’t sign a 10/350 deal now with any other team, but the Nationals. If they put that in front of him would you expect him to sign it? His next two years of arbitration, he’ll get what, $50M total - slightly less He signs a 10 year/$400 at free agency. What is he going to sign for at 35? What would other great young phenoms like Cabrera, Pujols, ARod and Andruw Jones get if they hit the market at age 35? If he were to sign at FA an 8/40 AAV, he’s 33 years old and 70M behind the offered deal. What would you put in front of him that he wouldn’t turn down? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Thinking about the Mets and their payroll. 2025 is an interesting year for them (if Soto goes to FA). Alonso, Scherzer, DeGrom, McCann, Canha, McNeil, JD Davis, Smith, and Escobar all are scheduled for FA that year. Lindor and Marte are their only position players under contract ($54.85M). Guilorme will be in his third arbitration year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 23 minutes ago, Ball Security said: He can’t sign a 10/350 deal now with any other team, but the Nationals. If they put that in front of him would you expect him to sign it? Of course not. Even if he rides out two years of arbitration at 50 mil, he can sign a higher deal to make up for it at free agency. My point about 350 was that even at that price point, he can out earn 440 over 15. Quote His next two years of arbitration, he’ll get what, $50M total - slightly less He signs a 10 year/$400 at free agency. What is he going to sign for at 35? What would other great young phenoms like Cabrera, Pujols, ARod and Andruw Jones get if they hit the market at age 35? If he gets 50mil in arbitration and signs 10/400, he already exceed 440 in 3 less years. And we've seen players like Donaldson sign a near 100 mil deal at 34. The better play though would be to sign a 10/400 with last 3 years being player option so that he can cash in again at 32. That's 330 through 9 with 6 more years to make up 110. And that's 110 in nearly a decade. Quote If he were to sign at FA an 8/40 AAV, he’s 33 years old and 70M behind the offered deal. It also leaves him 5 years to make up 70 mil a decade from now. You don't think he can find a better deal than 5/70 in 2032? Quote What would you put in front of him that he wouldn’t turn down? I don't know that there's any deal that he won't turn down. But put a 10/400 in front of him now and that gets turned down, I'll doff my cap to the Lerners for doing what they can (that gives Soto 30 mil above arbitration years that he can't get elsewhere). 30 aav? Not even close. 8 minutes ago, Ball Security said: Thinking about the Mets and their payroll. 2025 is an interesting year for them (if Soto goes to FA). Alonso, Scherzer, DeGrom, McCann, Canha, McNeil, JD Davis, Smith, and Escobar all are scheduled for FA that year. Lindor and Marte are their only position players under contract ($54.85M). Guilorme will be in his third arbitration year. Well, I just barfed a little so thank you for that. 😢 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 21 minutes ago, bearrock said: Of course not. Even if he rides out two years of arbitration at 50 mil, he can sign a higher deal to make up for it at free agency. My point about 350 was that even at that price point, he can out earn 440 over 15. If he gets 50mil in arbitration and signs 10/400, he already exceed 440 in 3 less years. And we've seen players like Donaldson sign a near 100 mil deal at 34. The better play though would be to sign a 10/400 with last 3 years being player option so that he can cash in again at 32. That's 330 through 9 with 6 more years to make up 110. And that's 110 in nearly a decade. It also leaves him 5 years to make up 70 mil a decade from now. You don't think he can find a better deal than 5/70 in 2032? I don't know that there's any deal that he won't turn down. But put a 10/400 in front of him now and that gets turned down, I'll doff my cap to the Lerners for doing what they can (that gives Soto 30 mil above arbitration years that he can't get elsewhere). 30 aav? Not even close. Well, I just barfed a little so thank you for that. 😢 Yes, he will make $10M more and then have 3 extra years to earn more. That’s about a 2.5% discount for locking him into $440M and eliminates the risk of him getting hurt like Tatis and Harper within the next 2.5 seasons. He could end up making another big time contract at 35. Hopefully he’s in a position to do so. But I just gave examples of four HOF-ish guys who would not command much if they hit the market at 35. If he really wants an opportunity to hit FA again at 35, I’d have no problems keeping the dollars the same and shaving 3 years off the end. It would still be a bigger contract than Trout. It would be the highest AAV of anyone signed 10 years or more. I’m not concerned about keeping him in his 36-38yo seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoshuaj Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 And here we go….. Nationals refused to charter Juan Soto a flight to Home Run Derby, so he flew commercial “The contentious relationship between Juan Soto and the Washington Nationals continues to sour. Less than 24-hours before Soto hoisted the 2022 Home Run Derby trophy at Dodger Stadium on Monday night, the 23-year-old outfielder was waiting in an airport for a commercial flight, all because the Nationals refused to charter a flight for Soto to Los Angeles, days after he rejected a record 15-year, $440 million contract extension. Soto's agent, Scott Boras, confirmed to USA TODAY Sports that Soto arrived in Los Angeles early Monday morning following the Nationals' game against the Atlanta Braves in Washington, D.C. on Sunday. The Braves chartered a plane to Los Angeles for their players. The Nationals did not”…….more at link https://sports.yahoo.com/nationals-refused-charter-juan-solo-211502624.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Boras, whom I can assure you hasn’t flow commercial to LA in 25+ years, making his top clients hang around at the Spirit Airlines counter? Seems legit. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted July 19, 2022 Author Share Posted July 19, 2022 21 minutes ago, stoshuaj said: Soto's agent, Scott Boras, confirmed to USA TODAY Sports that Soto arrived in Los Angeles early Monday morning following the Nationals' game against the Atlanta Braves in Washington, D.C. on Sunday. The Braves chartered a plane to Los Angeles for their players. The Nationals did not” Yeah...doesn't negotiate through the media... How many other teams chartered a flight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted July 19, 2022 Author Share Posted July 19, 2022 So...what was he saying about negotiating through the media? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: So...what was he saying about negotiating through the media? So if the Lerners put 10/$800M in front of him today, they won’t consider it because of the open ownership question? Riiiigggghhhht. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, Ball Security said: So if the Lerners put 10/$800M in front of him today, they won’t consider it because of the open ownership question? Riiiigggghhhht. The ownership question seems more tied to his concerns about how aggressive we will be in building a contender following this rebuild process. I'm not buying it has equal or greater value to AVV of the contract, but that does seem to matter to Soto because it keeps coming up, and honestly, that's fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted July 19, 2022 Author Share Posted July 19, 2022 7 minutes ago, Ball Security said: So if the Lerners put 10/$800M in front of him today, they won’t consider it because of the open ownership question? Riiiigggghhhht. He has absolutely no intention of signing before Free Agency. None. This is all a PR dog and pony show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 While all this Soto talk is upsetting, at least we drafted Marquis Grissom’s son today. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Watched the all star game last night. There were a ton of players I didn’t know. I dove into some of the relievers, and man, some of these guys came out of nowhere. Some of them were awful until their late 20s. Clase - a PTBNL Holmes - 9th rounder for Pittsburgh. Struggled then got traded. Developed a sinker and now has had an ERA+ north of 250 with NY Lopez - Baltimore claimed him off waivers GSoto - amateur FA Romano - 10th rounder, blew up at age 27 Helsley - ho hum career until this year where he has put up insane numbers. Bednar - 35th rounder Mantiply - 27th rounder. The Nationals have had the worst pitching in baseball this season with 79 ERA+. Is there anyone in this organization that has struggled, but can break out? Do we have the right development people? How do we identify and get these guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, Ball Security said: Watched the all star game last night. There were a ton of players I didn’t know. I dove into some of the relievers, and man, some of these guys came out of nowhere. Some of them were awful until their late 20s. Clase - a PTBNL Holmes - 9th rounder for Pittsburgh. Struggled then got traded. Developed a sinker and now has had an ERA+ north of 250 with NY Lopez - Baltimore claimed him off waivers GSoto - amateur FA Romano - 10th rounder, blew up at age 27 Helsley - ho hum career until this year where he has put up insane numbers. Bednar - 35th rounder Mantiply - 27th rounder. The Nationals have had the worst pitching in baseball this season with 79 ERA+. Is there anyone in this organization that has struggled, but can break out? Do we have the right development people? How do we identify and get these guys? Development and coaching of pitchers here is a problem. Can't even guess about who in their system COULD breakout. Hopefully there is good new ownership who invests in replacing/upgrading what's in place now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 We won a game! Suck it America! WHOOOWHEEEE!! Hey @Spaceman Spiff, your boys really impressed me this weekend. They went into a really hostile environment and battled the Yankees on their turf. Very impressive. They got something going there. I also saw a tweet that said the Cardinals were the front runner for Soto. Here are their Top 30: https://www.mlb.com/prospects/cardinals/ If rumors are true, we'd get at least their top 3 on that list--Jordan Walker being the #1 get. Plus a few others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmirOfShmo Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Nats reliever Weems hitting 97-98-99 multiple times in relief tonight was impressive. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, EmirOfShmo said: Nats reliever Weems hitting 97-98-99 multiple times in relief tonight was impressive. I didn't realize he had that arm. Keep him around, **** it, not like it matters much if we win at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmirOfShmo Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said: I didn't realize he had that arm. Keep him around, **** it, not like it matters much if we win at all. Yep...kid looked good. He threw some heat with decent control. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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