StillUnknown Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 9 hours ago, PeterMP said: Easily Allen. Redskins have made the playoffs 2 times in 8 years and never won a playoff game. (I'm counting this year as out of the playoffs). Grunfeld's teams have been in the playoffs 8 times in 14 years and won the first round a few times. Grunfeld's teams have been to the 2nd round of the playoffs at at higher percentage than Allen's have made the playoffs. Counterpoint: making the playoffs in the east is not that big of an accomplishment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 hours ago, CrypticVillain said: They don't have anyone important because their starter just suffered a likely career ending injury... And I'm not saying the team is perfect, but there's some nice pieces on the team. The Wizards have nice pieces as well, but the cap is so jacked up and the team is so poorly constructed... And again, much easier to build a competitive NBA team than an NFL team and Grunfeld couldn't do that and he has three drafted top 3 picks on the team... Two of them arguably in the top 30 in the league... And the Wizards are a laughingstock. 1. I'm not at all sure why it is easier to build a competitive team in the NBA than the NFL. It is certainly different, but at the end of the day you are competing against 32 vs. 30 teams. But the NFL is all about parity so it seems like that parity alone should get you close to competitive. 2. He was 34 years old, was struggling, never really was considered an upper echelon QB, and was signed to an awful contract. If he retires because of the injury, that might actually be a positive for Allen/Redskins. 3. And the Redskins aren't/haven't been? The Redskins have been one PR disaster after another. I also don't think the Wizards are really a laughing stock. It isn't like they've been Kings bad as long as the Kings, and this year, it isn't like they are the Rockets who talked about having championship aspirations and have fallen completely flat. Their struggling, and part of that's maybe because their top FA pickup and an expected starter has been injured. (not that I'm going to claim that Howard is the answer. I always though that was a pickup that could go either way and that they could be worse with him vs. Gortat.) 1 hour ago, StillUnknown said: Counterpoint: making the playoffs in the east is not that big of an accomplishment That's not really been the case over Grunfeld's whole career, and there have certainly been years where winning the NFC East or making it as a wildcard in the NFC East have not been that big of an accomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Simplistically, Grunfeld has shown he can build a team that sustains winning for a period of years (he's done it twice). Allen hasn't. Which is why Grunfeld's teams have had more success in terms of making and even advancing in the playoffs. Allen's teams get lucky/fluky for a year, make the playoffs, and are right back to being mediocre or even bad the next year. Grunfeld might not understand how to actually build a champion, but Allen doesn't even understand how to build a team that's a playoff caliber team for a couple of years in a row. Even now, the Wizards are actually closer to being a real good team than the Redskins (with proper management and assuming equal luck). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Allen is so bad he was replaced by an actual alcoholic. That alcoholic immediately and wildly outperformed him to the point Allen fired him over jealousy. Maybe a drunk dude could to better than Ernie, but that’s speculation. With Allen, it has actually ****ing happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 I actually had to step back and listen yall because initial reaction was Ernie all day. I'm staying with that for two main reasons: despite Bruce's failures, hes gotten us out the habit of trying to win the offseason and focus on draft picks. Ernie isnt any better at building a team then Allen is, but Ernie has zero value in draft picks and constantly has us in some cap hell where we cant get over the top. He hit on Wall and Beal, good for him, but those were first and third overall picks. Hes failed at everything else putting anything around them to get over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Grundfeld seems basically clueless at his job of player selection and personnel/coaching management Allen seems basically clueless at his job of player selection and personnel/coaching management. And he is an absolute disaster when he gets in front of the camera. And by all accounts he sounds like a giant dickwad. and then there is the age old question, do you want to surround yourself with ugly people, so that maybe you will look better? or do you want to be in the crowd that attracts all the flies? Allen has the benefit/burden of being associated with his turdfaced boss. the Snyder factor. does basking in the taint of THAT all day every day make him smell less bad by comparison? Personally i think not. The smell of turds and vomit mixed together doesn't make ME like the smell of vomit any better. Ernie is a clueless wallflower. Allen is a clueless dickwad bag of vomit, tainted by the organizations ever present scent of turd. Its not even close... Ernie can't win a war fought on that many fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted December 11, 2018 Author Share Posted December 11, 2018 I had to go with Ernie because aside from the on-court mediocrity, he built a culture that allowed firearms to be brandished in a locker room. He brought in actual violent criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 25 minutes ago, Sticksboi05 said: I had to go with Ernie because aside from the on-court mediocrity, he built a culture that allowed firearms to be brandished in a locker room. He brought in actual violent criminals. Sound logic there. Lo and behold, Bruce takes up the mantle now with guys like Reuben Foster. This contest is becoming a wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chachie said: Sound logic there. Lo and behold, Bruce takes up the mantle now with guys like Reuben Foster. This contest is becoming a wash. I don't think people realize how close Critter and Arenas came to shooting each other in the locker room, or we all forgot. Critter was serious AF, and eventually did kill someone, whether Arenas was "joking"or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, Renegade7 said: I don't people realize how close Critter and Arenas came to shooting each other in the locker room, or we all forgot As Washington sports fans, the one thing we're becoming really good at is forgetting. 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 There isn't a wrong answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: There isn't a wrong answer. Up the ante then, if we could only fire one, who would it be? Ernie in a heartbeat since he seems to be unkillable and Allen has at least for two seconds shown he can hire someone better than him at what he does to try and get better results (though I have my doubts he would do something like the Scott thing again). Ernie by all accounts refuses to take responsibility for anything and the minute the players finally started talking about him he put them in the trade block, ready to blow the whole thing up to get a whole new roster to blame for his mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Up the ante then, if we could only fire one, who would it be? Ernie in a heartbeat since he seems to be unkillable and Allen has at least for two seconds shown he can hire someone better than him at what he does to try and get better results (though I have my doubts he would do something like the Scott thing again). Ernie by all accounts refuses to take responsibility for anything and the minute the players finally started talking about him he put them in the trade block, ready to blow the whole thing up to get a whole new roster to blame for his mediocrity. I care more about the Wizards than the football team so my answer is Grunfeld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 27 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: I care more about the Wizards than the football team so my answer is Grunfeld. Fair, that was a dumb question, there are people that aren't even redskins fans anymore here. Was hoping for outside looking in, who really needs this more. It's really an unnerving time seeing what's going on with the standing of the redskins, they are at point of not only not being the most popular team in town but not the most popular football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 I'm waiting for someone to chime in with Mike Rizzo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Ernie. Ernie. A 1000 times Ernie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said: I'm waiting for someone to chime in with Mike Rizzo... Rizzo is probably the best GM that DC has ever had that hasn't won a ring yet here. Nats are a franchise that just feel inevitable if they keep proving they can replace players with younger talent over and over again, even if it's just one ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 hours ago, PeterMP said: Simplistically, Grunfeld has shown he can build a team that sustains winning for a period of years (he's done it twice). Allen hasn't. Which is why Grunfeld's teams have had more success in terms of making and even advancing in the playoffs. Allen's teams get lucky/fluky for a year, make the playoffs, and are right back to being mediocre or even bad the next year. Grunfeld might not understand how to actually build a champion, but Allen doesn't even understand how to build a team that's a playoff caliber team for a couple of years in a row. Even now, the Wizards are actually closer to being a real good team than the Redskins (with proper management and assuming equal luck). Putting together a winning basketball team versus football is easier, imo. Especially if you have the first pick and a few top picks (e.g. Wall, Beal, Porter) and the bar is making the playoffs in the east. In football, you have 22 starting positions to fill versus 5. And advancing in the NBA first round cannot be equally compared to the NFL since it is a seven game series versus single elimination. Apples to oranges just based on the physicality of both sports. Not defending Bruce by any means, he's ****ed up his share of things and should be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 4 hours ago, PeterMP said: 1. I'm not at all sure why it is easier to build a competitive team in the NBA than the NFL. It is certainly different, but at the end of the day you are competing against 32 vs. 30 teams. But the NFL is all about parity so it seems like that parity alone should get you close to competitive. 2. He was 34 years old, was struggling, never really was considered an upper echelon QB, and was signed to an awful contract. If he retires because of the injury, that might actually be a positive for Allen/Redskins. 3. And the Redskins aren't/haven't been? The Redskins have been one PR disaster after another. I also don't think the Wizards are really a laughing stock. It isn't like they've been Kings bad as long as the Kings, and this year, it isn't like they are the Rockets who talked about having championship aspirations and have fallen completely flat. Their struggling, and part of that's maybe because their top FA pickup and an expected starter has been injured. (not that I'm going to claim that Howard is the answer. I always though that was a pickup that could go either way and that they could be worse with him vs. Gortat.) That's not really been the case over Grunfeld's whole career, and there have certainly been years where winning the NFC East or making it as a wildcard in the NFC East have not been that big of an accomplishment. Its easier to build a competitive team in the nba because you need only get two good players to be competitive in the nba. Ernie didn’t earn half of his 2 good players, Washington is “competitive” because we won a lottery & lucked into Wall rather than Evan Turner or Wesley Johnson, who Ernie liked a lot. In 2012 we needed MKG not to be there, at 3, because he was on his way to DC if Ernie had the opportunity to grab him. There are no Wizards fans who would have a lesser team than Ernie, every fan would have Wall, & even those who didn’t like Beal wouldn’t have drafted Vesely over Leonard, these picks were polled on Wizards forums & Leonard was the most popular pick on each of them. If fan polls ran the Wizards, we’d be much better, that’s nearly irrefutable. Ernie took Otto over Giannis, his job is to find the Giannis, not the Vesely. This years 2nd round pick couldn’t beat anyone on this forum in a game of horse, or basketball. I could go on, but if I do, all Wizards fans should head out to Walgreens and load up on Kleenex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 40 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said: Putting together a winning basketball team versus football is easier, imo. Especially if you have the first pick and a few top picks (e.g. Wall, Beal, Porter) and the bar is making the playoffs in the east. In football, you have 22 starting positions to fill versus 5. And advancing in the NBA first round cannot be equally compared to the NFL since it is a seven game series versus single elimination. Apples to oranges just based on the physicality of both sports. Not defending Bruce by any means, he's ****ed up his share of things and should be gone. The flip side of that is the NFL teams regularly find starters in the 4th and 5th round of the draft. There isn't even a 3rd round of the NBA draft. Plenty of teams end up with high picks and end up no where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said: I'm waiting for someone to chime in with Mike Rizzo... With Rizzo, and McPhee before he was let go... I don't have beef with them. They were trying... Either they kept running into the wrong team, or had bad luck. They produced though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Grunfeld's biggest sin has always been his lack of vision. I can forgive mistakes when I can see the logical progressions behind them. His summer of 16 spending spree is particularly damning. He sold the fans on dreams of Durant and ended up paying 100mil to Ian Mahinmi, Andrew Nicholson, and Jason Smith. Mahinmi is a center for a bygone era and we already had his type on the roster in Gortat. Nicholson didnt even last a year, cost a 1st round pick to get rid of him, and he's no longer in the league. Jason Smith is a wonderful human being but he should not be making 5mil per year, and under no circumstances do you give him a players option. You cannot possibly see how the nba was trending and then hand those contracts to those players. This is just one example of one summers worth of ineptitude and lack of vision. I got about a dozen more, but i will refrain from expounding as i feel myself becoming angry thinking about this **** again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 57 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Rizzo is probably the best GM that DC has ever had that hasn't won a ring yet here. Nats are a franchise that just feel inevitable if they keep proving they can replace players with younger talent over and over again, even if it's just one ring. He’s ok imo, but Rizzo isn’t why Washington had Harper, Stras, Max, or Corbin...or Soto. He is why they don’t have Lopez, Giolito, Ray, Dunning, Luzardo (top 35 prospect per fangraphs), & Pivetta. His trade for Turner was a brilliant one, the deal for Eaton appeared reactionary after missing on Sale, the discovery of Soto should get Ulloa a statue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said: I'm waiting for someone to chime in with Mike Rizzo... I started to, but could not formulate a post that sounded like believable satire and not just idiotic trolling. My attempt for GMBM started with, "Sure, he won the Stanley Cup almost immediately, but" and then I couldn't keep going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, PeterMP said: The flip side of that is the NFL teams regularly find starters in the 4th and 5th round of the draft. There isn't even a 3rd round of the NBA draft. Plenty of teams end up with high picks and end up no where. How is that the flip side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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