Defense gone soft at the worst possible time

[Suffolk_Skins]

It may have worked against the self destruct Buccaneers but that philosophy won't bring home a divisional title. Dunbar aside we are fairly injury free on defense but all of a sudden we are getting bossed on that side of the ball. We are so scared of getting beaten by a huge play that we have gone soft. Look at those easy third downs, pretty much a give me with #24 playing a few yards back and Cooper running an easy route, no way near aggressive enough. The go ahead field goal for the Texans, played the sticks, pathetic and cost us, dearly. Oh and guess what happens if you play soft against a better quality opponent and forget how to tackle. Thursday happens, big underneath plays, same result as a big play over the top. Manuksy, you are being punished for trying not to lose games. The offense is not going to be good enough to win them by themselves. Also teams are watching the Atlanta tape and destroying us by doing the same thing. Anytime we are in Nickel on 2nd down, bang 7/8 yards. Usually before contact. Making some coaching adjustments that is what you are getting paid to do.

 

Finally, he may not have been having a stellar season but Nickelson at least gave us some speed back there. He also used to flash in the run game and appear from nowhere and make a tackle. The HaHa signing over getting a receiver still baffles me. DJ is having a great year but teams are keeping it away from him now and that's working. With the pass rush we are getting (the one big plus right now) the yards, big plays and third down results should be MUCH better, need to figure it out and fast. Jay is an easy target and the threads on here about his job next yearwith everything still in front of us frustrate me but this defensive staff needs to step up here, big time.

[skinfan2k]

the DL isn't the issue.  Teams have figured out how to beat our LBs.  Mason Foster in space is terrible and a joke.  He can't cover any RB or slot receiver in the league anymore. Did you watch Mark Bullock's videos.  The Dline is doing its job and the linebackers and Safeties have lanes to get the RB and they aren't doing it

[Suffolk_Skins]

I don't think I said the D line was the issue did I? 

[redskinss]

Last year our run defense started out fantastic but half way through the season it fell off a cliff and we finished at or near the bottom in almost every defensive category. 

We all blamed it on injuries but at the time I really felt that being out schemed was much more to blame than injuries. 

We're looking like the exact same thing is going to happen this year and we really can't blame injuries at all.

How many seasons do we have to have such a second half drop off before we can assume a large part of the problem is having our scheme figured out?

 

I put this in the day after thread because I didn't want to start a new thread but this thread is more appropriate. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Manusky fell in love with the bend but don’t break because it worked in Tampa.  And he doesn’t trust the DBs.

 

Butbthe lack of gap responsibility is ridiculous.  Even if foster is slow as a banana slug, he’s not where he needs to be which allows offensive players to just run around him.

[Renegade7]

We called the issues at corner before the season started, the fact it took this long for anyone to really notice is a miracle.  I no idea what to think about Dunbar anymore, he has over achieved, but if people are serious about cutting Norman, don't expect this to get better if he's our #1

[JPG]

Is Montae Nicholson injured still? I’m not aure why he isn’t atarty over Ha Ha at this point. 

 

Also why can’t we just try vigil or someone who is better over Foster? I know foster is a thumper in the run game but there has to be a way to get a cover lb in there in more situations.

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

We called the issues at corner before the season started, the fact it took this long for anyone to really notice is a miracle.  I no idea what to think about Dunbar anymore, he has over achieved, but if people are serious about cutting Norman, don't expect this to get better if he's our #1

 

I get that but I damn sure don’t want Norman here for that cap hit. I doubt he’ll take a paycut. Id rather go after the best free agent corner with his money. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

We called the issues at corner before the season started, the fact it took this long for anyone to really notice is a miracle.  I no idea what to think about Dunbar anymore, he has over achieved, but if people are serious about cutting Norman, don't expect this to get better if he's our #1

Dunny’s hurt 

 

Do you know how you protect a suspect secondary? 

 

You beong pressure and play tight man-to-man coverage with a safety over the top.  

 

You sheink the field.

 

Manusky dies the opposite.  He plays off coverage, loose zone Devon’s a blitz.  Which essentially guarantees an easy completion if the QB is this side of Brock Osweiler.

[Suffolk_Skins]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Dunny’s hurt 

 

Do you know how you protect a suspect secondary? 

 

You beong pressure and play tight man-to-man coverage with a safety over the top.  

 

You sheink the field.

 

Manusky dies the opposite.  He plays off coverage, loose zone Devon’s a blitz.  Which essentially guarantees an easy completion if the QB is this side of Brock Osweiler.

 

Exactly that first drive was so annoyingly predictable. With pressure we are getting we must press more and play tighter. 

 

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

When you don't finish plays..this happens. HAHA standing there when the WR isn't down..then runs by him for a TD is all EFFORT. That is on Jay. What happened to coaches fining players for BS like that???

 

This TEAM..not just the D isn't HUNGRY. Must be the drinking water at Redskins Park...every TEAM under Snyder is unmotivated

[Playaction2Sanders]

The word has been out, we can't handle any team with a competent passing attack. Its funny when people use the saying sometimes, like when they sign a big FA Dlineman "a good Dline makes bad secondary better". I mean look at us, look at the Rams. Its not always the case.. Ha Ha Clinton Dix, why did we trade for this dude??? He just seems like a body out there. Maybe his talent is showing in the film room and not in the highlight reels..

 

Next offseason we need linebacker speed and a legit corner to replace Norman..Moreau I'll give a pass since its his first season of real work. Kendall Fuller got torched his rookie year and coming off an injury the year before and had an awesome 2nd season. Moreau by comparison has probably had a better season since we aren't seeing him get burnt as often as Fuller did but he's had his struggles..

 

 

Last year all the experts ragged on how bad our defense was and never mentioned how injured we were and failed to mention how good we were when we were healthy.. This season we've avoided the injury bug by comparison, sure we lost Dunbar for a bit but its nowhere near as bad as it was last season, but we're middle of the pack yardage wise but 6th in pts allowed.and we're on pace for our highest sack total since the 2000 team..

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Suffolk_Skins said:

 

Exactly that first drive was so annoyingly predictable. With pressure we are getting we must press more and play tighter. 

 

Jay hired Manusky because he has the same play not to lose, low risk mentality.

 

Its very predictable they play crap coverages.  

 

 

1 minute ago, Playaction2Sanders said:

The word has been out, we can't handle any team with a competent passing attack. Its funny when people use the saying sometimes, like when they sign a big FA Dlineman "a good Dline makes bad secondary better". I mean look at us, look at the Rams. Its not always the case.. Ha Ha Clinton Dix, why did we trade for this dude??? He just seems like a body out there.

 

Next offseason we need linebacker speed and a legit corner to replace Norman..Moreau I'll give a pass since its his first season of real work. Kendall Fuller got torched his rookie year and coming off an injury the year before and had an awesome 2nd season. Moreau by comparison has probably had a better season since we aren't seeing him get burnt as often as Fuller did but he's had his struggles..

A better scheme and coaching would do wonders as well. Somebody with some creativity, ingenuity and balls.

[Skinsinparadise]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/11/23/redskins-can-cure-many-woes-with-bonus-day-practice-jay-gruden-says/?utm_term=.7d76f8efa72a

 

Gruden even thinks the extra practice time will help his once-stout defense, which has suddenly become porous. After Thursday’s game, Washington safety D.J. Swearinger blasted the group, saying: “We missed a lot of tackles. We didn’t do what we needed to do as a defense as a whole.”

On Friday, Gruden seemed to agree with Swearinger but added that he couldn’t “put a finger on” why the defensive players have suddenly started missing tackles that they made earlier in the season. He pointed to injuries to defensive linemen Matt Ioannidis and Jonathan Allensuffered in the Dallas game and lingering shoulder soreness that has bothered fellow lineman Daron Payne in recent weeks as reasons why the Redskins haven’t been as good at stopping the run.

Allen, who hurt his knee Thursday, is expected to be fine. Ioannidis, who has a calf injury, might be out longer. With the injured players getting rest over the weekend and the defense having time to work on its issues in practice next week, Gruden said he thinks the tackling will improve.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I don’t want to hear about injuries from Gruden.  It’s an excuse.  Injuries happen to every team.  Injuries don’t lead to missed  tackles.  

 

Figure out hiw how to get your team prepare.

 

Losers talk about injuries. 

[Est.1974]

We are playing soft to avoid giving up long range scores.

 

Oh wait a minute......

[Renegade7]

55 minutes ago, JPG said:

 

I get that but I damn sure don’t want Norman here for that cap hit. I doubt he’ll take a paycut. Id rather go after the best free agent corner with his money. 

 

I feel you, that's not answering the question, you cool with Dunny as our #1 next year?  If its that much of a cap savings, I'm not sure why restructuring Norman's deal isn't being talked about.  If Norman leaves, now you have to ask if that first round pick is a corner, which if it can't QB probably should be if we do that.

[Renegade7]

53 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Dunny’s hurt 

 

Do you know how you protect a suspect secondary? 

 

You beong pressure and play tight man-to-man coverage with a safety over the top.  

 

You sheink the field.

 

Manusky dies the opposite.  He plays off coverage, loose zone Devon’s a blitz.  Which essentially guarantees an easy completion if the QB is this side of Brock Osweiler.

 

That's also how you out them on an island, which is asking for it, too, when the secondary is underachieving.  

 

I agree they should blitz and press coverage more.  Hasslet would have these kitchen sink games every Blue Moon where guys move around so much you can't tell whos blitzing or coverage.

 

It still comes back to getting home on their blitzes, too.  Smart passing teams will pick up the pace in their throws, we are already beating the teams that can't do that.  They can't maximize this defense without blitzing more, I don't trust the corners to handle that throughout the game.  Every down they absolutely need they should do that and work from there, but he does have them playing hard and smart for most part.  We'd better if we were more aggressive.

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I feel you, that's not answering the question, you cool with Dunny as our #1 next year?  If its that much of a cap savings, I'm not sure why restructuring Norman's deal isn't being talked about.  If Norman leaves, now you have to ask if that first round pick is a corner, which if it can't QB probably should be if we do that.

All I ask is that the FO have a plan.  More than secondary, they need to upgrade Mason Foster, who should be a backup.

 

 

The DL is going to get better with experience.

 

The secondary should be ok with young guys and developing draft picks.

 

Foster is a real problem.  He’s like Teed Doughty. Smart player who’s physically limited.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

That's also how you out them on an island, which is asking for it, too, when the secondary is underachieving.  

Yes but theyre theoretically on an island for 2 seconds.

 

if you’re going to play soft coverage then don’t blitz.  

 

Its like Manusky hasn’t seen Star Wars: 

 

 

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

I agree they should blitz and press coverage more.  Hasslet would have these kitchen sink games every Blue Moon where guys move around so much you can't tell whos blitzing or coverage.

 

Yeah, anything remotely creative would be a blessing. 

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

It still comes back to getting home on their blitzes, too.  Smart passing teams will pick up the pace in their throws, we are already beating the teams that can't do that.  They can't maximize this defense without blitzing more, I don't trust the corners to handle that throughout the game.  Every down they absolutely need they should do that and work from there, but he does have them playing hard and smart for most part.  We'd better if we were more aggressive.

Blitzes and coverage have to be in sync.  Your rush has to get there in a Certain amount of time and coverage has to force receivers off their routes and take away the primary read for 2 seconds.  

 

You drill the living hell out of it starting in training camp.  

 

That came from an interview I heard years ago from Paecells.  He was smart.  The best example of it was the AFC playoff game in the snow between the Colts and Pats.  The Pat DL would rush to exactly 8 yards then pinch in, and the secondary knocked the receivers off the routes, so when Payton had to get rid of the ball, he couldn’t. 

 

It was freaking a brilliant example of how the two units work together.  You don’t need a sack.  You just need the rush to get there when the receivers are not available.

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

All I ask is that the FO have a plan.  More than secondary, they need to upgrade Mason Foster, who should be a backup.

 

 

The DL is going to get better with experience.

 

The secondary should be ok with young guys and developing draft picks.

 

Foster is a real problem.  He’s like Teed Doughty. Smart player who’s physically limited.

 

I'm with you.  It's why I'm leaning towards @Koolblue13 idea of trading out the first round if QB really isn't an option that makes sense.  If we play our cards right we can plug multiple holes with 2nd and 3rd picks.

 

Foster and Doughty is fair comparison at this point.  It's like you trusted him enough to start, but that doesn't mean he should be out there starting.  Foster needs to lose weight, I'd rather draft someone to take his job then see if he does that.  

 

I don't trust this Front Office with QB yet, but I can't help but look at the front 7 and believe they can hit more them miss if given a handful in the upper rounds.  Quinn was the last pick in the draft and he's taking Crowders job, that's impressive.

[Leonard Washington]

5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

We are playing soft to avoid giving up long range scores.

 

Oh wait a minute......

No kidding. Teams have been getting free releases all year. We don’t bump a releasing WR or TE either. 

 

I think Norman could compete better if he hits someone in the chest at the line

[skins island connection]

3 hours ago, Leonard Washington said:

No kidding. Teams have been getting free releases all year. We don’t bump a releasing WR or TE either. 

 

I think Norman could compete better if he hits someone in the chest at the line

 

 He can't do that, he's too busy slapping at the facemask or is actually on top of the WR before the ball is thrown to that WR.

 

But the defense hasn't been exposed all of a sudden, it started with the Colts. Dunbar and Moreau need serious training because they are the ones being exposed most of the time, but Manusky doesn't seem to understand this yet.

If they're gonna blitz, then they should do it like they did it back when Gregg Williama was here; every CB and/or safety was at the LOS, and they gave the WRs a hard check right at the line which is not a foul, and it threw timing off which gave the blitzers opportunity to get to the QB. By the time a WR was able to get open the QB was either already down or running for his life.

 

Manusky, just like the last 2 loser DCs before, had no idea how to design a successful blitz nor when to call it. It seems most of the time they play the same ol' zone crap slightly modified but still equally as ineffective. Come Monday Night the Eagles will attack the defense deep and Manusky will eventually adjust to slow that down but the offense will already be dumping off shorter routes, being the safeties will be 15 yds back.

[NoVaSkins21]

34 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

Manusky, just like the last 2 loser DCs before, had no idea how to design a successful blitz nor when to call it.

 

He basically calls the same time every time:  On 3rd down and it the QB knows it.  It happened constantly vs the Falcons and they got burned every time and it happened against Dal@ss.  Prescott saw it and so did his OL.  Instead of being out of the box, they've become predictable and teams have figured it out.  The Skins have never been known for their blitzing unlike the Steelers, Ravens, the Bears. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

13 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Jay hired Manusky because he has the same play not to lose, low risk mentality.

 

 

Don't they see the irony. When you 'play not to lose'....you end up losing much of the time.

[bh32]

The defense plays with no intensity..guys just standing around as another player tries to make a tackle.they have taken on the personality of manusky..until they get a DC that is aggressive then nothing will change