Next Day Thread: Redskins vs. Cowboys II

[TheGreek1973]

2 hours ago, Bang said:

Yeah, i kept getting the feeling that woman side judge liked us.. she gave us a few really good spots.. including some that were in our favor by a half a yard giving us a first down.

 

~Bang

I will say again.  yes this is true, but the cowboys could have challenged the spots, we couldn't have challenged 3 blatant fouls that IMO change the course of this game, especially two out of three INTs.  I hate to say it if this continues against us (don't forget we actually lost a game last week to this BS) I am going to stop being a fan.  Its just not worth it.

[WelshSkinsFan]

Quick question on this practice issue for any rules gurus out there.  I know that under the current CBA practices have been cut down and there is a lot of stuff where even the players will say they want to go full practice but are prohibited by the rules.  With a Thursday afternoon game, not even a night game, were the Redskins even allowed to hold a practice in pads this week?  

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

13 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

Quick question on this practice issue for any rules gurus out there.  I know that under the current CBA practices have been cut down and there is a lot of stuff where even the players will say they want to go full practice but are prohibited by the rules.  With a Thursday afternoon game, not even a night game, were the Redskins even allowed to hold a practice in pads this week?  

 

Im not sure. A quick google brought up an article on how the Cowboys prepared for their short Thanksgiving week last year.

 

Did no pad up tempo walk throughs on Tues and Wed. game Thursday. .... sounds like what we did this week.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/258589/rest-adrenaline-mental-readiness-how-the-cowboys-get-ready-on-a-short-week

 

------------------------------------------------

 

I am not blaming the refs nor saying this would have changed the game but ... did the refs flag Cooper for this? I cant remember.

 

- Cooper basketball celebration - Using goalpost as basketball hoop is a penalty. Vernon Davis got flagged when he shot the ball over the goal post 2 years ago. Despite relaxed celebration rules ...

 

And b) using the goal post as a prop remains a penalty.

 

 

 

this on top of Zeke getting $21 from a camera guy ....

 

[nonniey]

15 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I think 10 days of prep and practice vs 2 days of walkthroughs will result in a much better performance from Colt next Monday.

 

Call me naive...

It's a Monday night game. Maybe Colt will play better but it is still locked in as a loss (again it is a Monday game). 

15 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

if four years of prep didn’t improve his game, 10 days won’t make a difference. The issue wasn’t timing, it was decisions.

I'm I the only one that thought not going for 2 on our last TD was an enormously stupid decision?

[OVCChairman]

27 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

I am not blaming the refs nor saying this would have changed the game but ... did the refs flag Cooper for this? I cant remember.

 

- Cooper basketball celebration - Using goalpost as basketball hoop is a penalty. Vernon Davis got flagged when he shot the ball over the goal post 2 years ago. Despite relaxed celebration rules ...

 

And b) using the goal post as a prop remains a penalty.

 

 

 

this on top of Zeke getting $21 from a camera guy ....

 

 

 

No... he did not get penalized.. I noticed it as it happened as well.  

[nonniey]

3 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

 

I might make a unpopular opinion but i think Gruden has successful done his job here in DC, which is to make us average.  We aren't a clown show going 4-12 or 5-11 anymore.  We need someone know to take us to the next talent and Gruden is not that person.  

His decision not to go for 2 on our last TD clearly shows he lacks the analytical skills to be a successful Head Coach barring luck bailing him out.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

7 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

No... he did not get penalized.. I noticed it as it happened as well.  

 

Im finding some conflicting stuff ... im thinking you can do the jump shot celebration now. You can use ball as prop now but found other places saying you cant use the uprights as prop ... so ... Im leaning towards Cooper's celebration was legal .. probably.

 

Not that 15 yds changes a single thing but I like to know the nuances. Learned yesterday you can only review a called missed XP or FG .. if the ball stays below the top of the goalposts. Hopkins missed xp couldnt be reviewed bc it went to high.

[TradeTheBeal!]

46 minutes ago, nonniey said:

It's a Monday night game. Maybe Colt will play better but it is still locked in as a loss (again it is a Monday game). 

I'm I the only one that thought not going for 2 on our last TD was an enormously stupid decision?

 

Colt beat the Cowboys on Monday night a few years back.  

 

Going for for one at that juncture makes it an 11 point game...Still a TD/2pt/FG game.  Going for 2 and missing puts you 12 down and needing two touchdowns.  Fundamental, basic football decision that every coach from Pop Warner on up would make.

 

Be better.

[PartyPosse]

15 hours ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Nah, I will call you realistic.  Bad game for Colt but this is his first start, zero practice reps.  But the D lost the game today, you can't have this mental mistakes, we all saw how well we can play on D when we stopped the Dallas offense cold on several possessions only to have laughable issues on a couple of plays when they resulted in TDs.  One more thing.  if we don't file an official complain against the refs and basically threaten the league we will go public they will continue to abuse us.  The holding call on Moses, total BS.  The hold on Doctson (second INT) total BS non call.  The worse non call helmet to helmet hit on Reed just tells you these refs didn't want to call an even game.

Totally agree. Considering the defense knew the circumstances in that the offense was in shambles and had a new QB coming in who didn't have any practice reps, and considering the D for the most part is healthy, this should have been a game where they carried the team and instead they failed miserably. Add that to the fact that this was against Dallas with the division on the line and the effort and execution on that side was perhaps the most disappointing performance I've seen from that D all season.

[Dissident2]

56 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

No... he did not get penalized.. I noticed it as it happened as well.  

 

That's because it's legal now. 

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/7/16157560/nfl-celebration-rule-changes-2017-season

 

Scroll down and you'll see a mention of this with the VD play from a couple years back when he got penalized. 

 

As for the Salvation Army thing with that putz Zeke, they could've called that, but he put money in a Salvation Army bucket. A few years ago, he jumped in the bucket and got flagged for that. The NFL got some blowback because he ended up raising a lot of money for the SA. So there was no way they were going to flag him for doing that on Sunday. Sneaky Cowboy ****es. 

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, Dissident2 said:

 

That's because it's legal now. 

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/7/16157560/nfl-celebration-rule-changes-2017-season

 

Scroll down and you'll see a mention of this with the VD play from a couple years back when he got penalized. 

 

As for the Salvation Army thing with that putz Zeke, they could've called that, but he put money in a Salvation Army bucket. A few years ago, he jumped in the bucket and got flagged for that. The NFL got some blowback because he ended up raising a lot of money for the SA. So there was no way they were going to flag him for doing that on Sunday. Sneaky Cowboy ****es. 

 

 

Gotcha.. that makes more sense. 

[nonniey]

22 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Colt beat the Cowboys on Monday night a few years back.  

 

Going for for one at that juncture makes it an 11 point game...Still a TD/2pt/FG game.  Going for 2 and missing puts you 12 down and needing two touchdowns.  Fundamental, basic football decision that every coach from Pop Warner on up would make.

 

Be better.

That is weak analysis re 2 Pointer

 

The Redskins needed a field goal and 2 TDs to tie as long was we got a 2 pt conversion on one of the TDs. Now a poor analyst would say we could wait for the 2d td to go for it.  Nope you go for it on the first because if you don't make it then you have the information to decide not to go for a field goal at all. 

 

Ie look at yesterdays situation 4th and goal we went for the field goal which was the right decision at that point then we get the onside kick and miraculously score the TD but miss the 2 pt conversion and we lose the game.

 

If we had gone for the 2 Pt conversion earlier and missed we'd would have taken a shot into the endzone on that 4th and goal.  Bottom-line by not going for the 2pts with the first TD statistically it reduced our chances of winning.

 

Analyze better.

[OVCChairman]

5 minutes ago, nonniey said:

 

 

If we had gone for the 2 Pt conversion earlier and missed we'd would have taken a shot into the endzone on that 4th and goal.  Bottom-line by not going for the 2pts with the first TD statistically it reduced our chances of winning.

 

 

 

I'm with you on this one.  

 

A 2 possession game is that regardless of whether or not we get the 2 point play on the earlier TD.  I'd much rather know then if a FG would be enough or it wouldn't.  That changes the entire dynamic of the following 2 drives and hopefully prevents the need to put the entire emphasis of the game on a 2 pt play, which I have very little confidence that the play call or execution would be there to execute.  I actually think we'd be better suited not being pressed down there tightening the field on us and would be more likely to be able to hit a strike like to Vernon or a screen to Bibbs being further back.  

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Yeah, but going for two and getting it at the 6:00 minute mark doesn’t really improve your situation.  You still need a TD and a FG.  You’re taking a 30/70 risk that doesn’t significantly improve your winning chance at that point in the game.  That’s why the vast majority of coaches...gotta be easily 90+%...will wait and go for two at the end.  

 

“I’d rather be 12 points down with 6 minutes left than down 11!!”  Think about how ridiculous that sounds...

[Monkman56]

Anyone know what Jeff George or Gus Ferotte are up to?

[petey hodge]

16 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Yeah, we're looking at a three way tie at 6-6 in short order.

 

Um, two guys and a girl doesn't exactly qualify as a three way

 

[Monkman56]

33 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Gotcha.. that makes more sense. 

 

35 minutes ago, Dissident2 said:

 

That's because it's legal now. 

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/7/16157560/nfl-celebration-rule-changes-2017-season

 

Scroll down and you'll see a mention of this with the VD play from a couple years back when he got penalized. 

 

As for the Salvation Army thing with that putz Zeke, they could've called that, but he put money in a Salvation Army bucket. A few years ago, he jumped in the bucket and got flagged for that. The NFL got some blowback because he ended up raising a lot of money for the SA. So there was no way they were going to flag him for doing that on Sunday. Sneaky Cowboy ****es. 

Plus it was obviously the "Dallas cowboys" show.

 

[nonniey]

10 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Yeah, but going for two and getting it at the 6:00 minute mark doesn’t really improve your situation.  You still need a TD and a FG.  You’re taking a 30/70 risk that doesn’t significantly improve your winning chance at that point in the game.  That’s why the vast majority of coaches...gotta be easily 90+%...will wait and go for two at the end.  

 

“I’d rather be 12 points down with 6 minutes left than down 11!!”  Think about how ridiculous that sounds...

Not as ridiculous as saying I'd rather be down by 11 than down by 10.  Point being you have to go for 2 with one of your TDs and you also know you might not get it - if you don't get it then you know you have to go for a TD in lieu of the field goal. It is better to know that before you go for a field goal. 

[Monkman56]

2 hours ago, TheGreek1973 said:

I will say again.  yes this is true, but the cowboys could have challenged the spots, we couldn't have challenged 3 blatant fouls that IMO change the course of this game, especially two out of three INTs.  I hate to say it if this continues against us (don't forget we actually lost a game last week to this BS) I am going to stop being a fan.  Its just not worth it.

Officiating is puke worthy this year. Observation : Doctson got penalized a few games back for spinning the ball ON THE SIDE LINES after a catch. Watching the Rams game after that, the Rams WR's did this 3 to 4 times after catches in the middle of the field. No penalties. I rest my case.

[OVCChairman]

45 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Yeah, but going for two and getting it at the 6:00 minute mark doesn’t really improve your situation.  You still need a TD and a FG.  You’re taking a 30/70 risk that doesn’t significantly improve your winning chance at that point in the game.  That’s why the vast majority of coaches...gotta be easily 90+%...will wait and go for two at the end.  

 

“I’d rather be 12 points down with 6 minutes left than down 11!!”  Think about how ridiculous that sounds...

 

 

I'd rather be down 10 points down with 6 minutes left than down 11...

 

I'd also prefer to know at that point what my next 2 possible possessions  need to look like.  If you know that NEEDING a 2 point conversion is necessary, why wait?  Why not take that shot when you can still adjust for it if you miss? 

[Wildbunny]

44 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Not as ridiculous as saying I'd rather be down by 11 than down by 10.  Point being you have to go for 2 with one of your TDs and you also know you might not get it - if you don't get it then you know you have to go for a TD in lieu of the field goal. It is better to know that before you go for a field goal. 

Well, no.

 

Failing going for 2 (let's be honest our O is no world beater so, going for 2 is no gimme for this O) means you have to get 2 TDs. Which is quite hard to go. Especially with this offense.

 

Going for one, you know that a TD and FG ties the game and keeps you alive for some time. Going for 2 and failing, nearly kills you. It's way easier to then score another TD, then grab the ball and get in range for a FG than trying to luck into an Hail Mary type of play.

 

Now it's fine discussing theory of this, but with that O, nothing is for granted. We're not Rams, Saints or the Chiefs... So you'd better take this into account. Some coaches tried going with your theory this year like Frank Reich, saying they're playing to win. With no luck. If they get fired in the end, it will have done more harm than good. The theory is cool, but at the end of the end, you're gonna lose more often than you win. And in a 16 weeks season, a tie is definately better than a loss and can do the difference between staying at home and going to the playoffs.

[nonniey]

15 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Well, no.

 

Failing going for 2 (let's be honest our O is no world beater so, going for 2 is no gimme for this O) means you have to get 2 TDs. Which is quite hard to go. Especially with this offense.

 

Going for one, you know that a TD and FG ties the game and keeps you alive for some time. Going for 2 and failing, nearly kills you. It's way easier to then score another TD, then grab the ball and get in range for a FG than trying to luck into an Hail Mary type of play.

 

Now it's fine discussing theory of this, but with that O, nothing is for granted. We're not Rams, Saints or the Chiefs... So you'd better take this into account. Some coaches tried going with your theory this year like Frank Reich, saying they're playing to win. With no luck. If they get fired in the end, it will have done more harm than good. The theory is cool, but at the end of the end, you're gonna lose more often than you win. And in a 16 weeks season, a tie is definately better than a loss and can do the difference between staying at home and going to the playoffs.

I'm talking about going for the tie. You have to go for a 2 pointer with one of the 2 TDs you need to get the tie. It is obviously better to go for it on the earlier TD as it gives you the information you need to make decisions on any following drives

Granted -  going for 2 and failing does nearly kill you but going for 2 and failing on the second TD does kill you (not nearly kills).  If you are down by 12  like we were you go for the 2pt conversion. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

1 hour ago, Monkman56 said:

Officiating is puke worthy this year. Observation : Doctson got penalized a few games back for spinning the ball ON THE SIDE LINES after a catch. Watching the Rams game after that, the Rams WR's did this 3 to 4 times after catches in the middle of the field. No penalties. I rest my case.

Did the rams players do it in front of the opposing teams bench though? If not, then there’s the difference. Doctsons was clearly taunting.

[JSSkinz]

The defense should be ashamed, we had the lead with 9 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter.  There was a sequence of 4 terrible drives (both offense and defense) that cost us that game and what happened after that just doesn't matter.

 

We score to take the lead 13-10 with 9 minutes left in the 3rd Qtr, we're playing defense and giving up yards but we're in our bend but dont break mode then Dunbar falls down and lets Cooper get that 40 yard TD.

 

Next possession we drive 40 yards down to the Cowboys 32 yard line, we have a 3rd and 1 and Harris false starts to make it 3rd and 6, we don't get the first and we punt from the Cowboys 38.

 

On the next Cowboys drive they go 90 yards in 2 plays, once again a defender falls down and shows terrible effort, doesn't even get enough contact on Cooper to allow Dj or Dix to come over and make a tackle.

 

That's where the game was over, in 6 minutes we went from winning by 3 points to being down 2 possessions and all momentum we had was crushed by the defense gifting the Cowboys 2 TDs.

 

On the next Redskins drive is when Colt threw his 2nd of 3 Ints, I don't put that int on him, I'm sure many will disagree and I want to hear what the film guys say about that play but that's a quick throw meant to get to the WR immediately and you have to get a block on that D lineman, Moses lunges forward and falls flat on his fat ass and lets the D lineman jump with 2 hands to get that pick, that doesn't happen if he gets any decent contact on the defender.

 

The opportunity was there to win that game, we just folded like a lawn chair on defense.

 

 

 

 

[Unbias]

I'm not going to roast HHCD because it's extremely hard for a DB, outside of a man corner, to hop into a different system and become productive. 

 

I'd also say the 'concerns' I heard from Packer fans was that he doesn't really like to tackle and takes bad angles. On both of Cooper's long TDs he wasn't protecting the open field, but rather just flowing to where the other defenders were.