WeThreeKingsRuleU Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Thread theme - A lot of talk recently has been around what could be done differently (obviously following a loss this is 90% of discussion) so I'd like to get into specifics. What are some of the biggest changes you would like to see made (talking X's and O's here, don't say FIRE DAN FIRE BRUCE FIRE JAY) and what should we be looking for in the Panthers game to see if changes have indeed been made. I'll start: Offense: If someone with more football knowledge than me can let me know, what are the fundamental differences between the KC offense last year and Jay's offense this year? Aside from having better playmakers, I'm wondering why our similar playmakers (J Reed, Crowder, CT) haven't been more involved, or even the focal point of the offense this year. That being said, changes I would like to see going forward: -fewer 3 WR sets (especially on critical downs) this doesn't seem to take advantage of our existing personnel -more passes over the middle - is it by design that most passes seem to target the sideline? or does Alex have an aversion to passing between the hashes? -get rid of the jet sweep - I have yet to see them actually hand it off to the receiver in motion, but whenever I see it I find myself shouting at the tv "why?! WHY?!" it feels like a waste -more timely screens - opponent defenses, even the statistically worse ones, have been able to sniff out our screen passes with ease, why is that? -extra pass protection - for whatever reason (and tell me if I'm missing it) I haven't seen Jay keep someone in pass protection all that often, even on obvious passing downs, what is the reasoning behind this? a rb, or a TE to chip? something? Defense: -extra rushers - keeping with the theme of bringing extra personnel, I know it's a risk and opens holes, but can we/should we see an increase in the amount of rushers brought on particular plays? obvious passing downs and run blitzes? sending four every time hasn't been working out all that well -less free lancing - this has been covered a lot in the press that the blown coverages has been due to DB's free lancing trying to make a play, it's an obvious fix, but something to look out for, so we can see if they are actually being coached up Anything else? Special teams: -Nick sundberg false starts - what is wrong with ol' Nick? seems like he has had a false start in almost every game so far -return yards - what can be done to improve this? I think we may actually be last in the league in this statistical category That's all I have. Like I said, this thread is a place to point out the changes you would like to see being made, and what to look for in the game to see if they actually have been made. I think it will lead to interesting X's and O's discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 More pressure from blitzes..more exotic blitz packages..more Jordan Reed envolved..for someone who is supposedly healthy he does not get the ball enough, if he's healthy he's making plays.. especially this game more two tight end sets lots of ap around the end..screen plays for Thompson get p rich envolved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I would simplify things on offense. Don't be pretty good at a lot of different things, be great at a few. Dictate to the defense and don't always just take what the defense gives you. In general, that's a great approach and appreciate Alex for not turning the ball over much. But you have to take some chances in this league, it's impractical to think every single week you are going to sustain 11-12 play drives and score TDs like we did against Arizona and Green Bay. And even though I want to simplify things on offense from the standpoint of how many plays we run, I want to see more creativity when it comes to the mix of run and pass. It feels we run on first down 80%+ of the time. Run some PA on first down, get the defense on their heels. Get the screen game going even more. Take some shots early and often to open up the real strength of our team, the underneath stuff with CT/AP/Reed/Crowder. On D, I want to get a little more aggressive with stunts and not always relying on our guys to beat their guys one on one. Bring a couple corner blitzes, blitzes up the middle, etc. I would like to SDH/JHC get some more time too from a personnel standpoint. I'm about fed up with Josh's play, he better have a big week this week against his existing team or I think it's time to run with Dunny and Moreau as the 1 and 2. Feature Swearinger some more, get him involved and near the line of scrimmage. I want to see two competent weeks back to back. This season has me more confused than any in recent memory, I have no idea at this point if we are going to bottom out and get a top 5 pick or go to the playoffs. Neither would shock me at this point, which is not what I would have said before the season. All 51 other guys need to adopt the attitude of the BAMA boys up front. Show some emotion, look like you care. Last week really pissed me off, we rolled over and got it taken to us. Nothing makes me more mad than what seems to be a total lack of effort. Camp Jay needs to bring the heat this week and every week. Otherwise, I think 5 years will be the end of the Jay Gruden era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Offense: - Get CT more involved w screens, designed dumpoffs, let him chip a rusher real quick and then leak out. - Feed Reed. Just force it. Move him around pre snap to get match ups. Try to get him iso'd. - Run some crossing routes, work the middle more. - at least 2 trick plays this week. Cant Crowder throw a decent pass? maybe pitch it to him behind the LOS and let hi throw one AS or somebody. - Get AP and CT on field at the same time. Defense: - dont let our MLB be responsible for coverage or mid to deep zones .. ever. - blitz a bit more and when you do, dont count 5 rushers as blitz. Bring the heat on 3rd and long and have the corners press hard. If a WR slips by the press, oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, WeThreeKingsRuleU said: -Nick sundberg false starts - what is wrong with ol' Nick? seems like he has had a false start in almost every game so far I've always wondered how can a C or a LS make a false start. They are the ones snapping the ball and thus starting to play... So that shouldn't happen in any way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said: Offense: - Get CT more involved w screens, designed dumpoffs, let him chip a rusher real quick and then leak out. - You want more dumpoffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJacobyHOForRIOT Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: You want more dumpoffs? YES, With CT ABSOLUTELY ! Dump offs to WR's and TE's not so much. A Designed dump-off is called a screen pass... A Non designed dump off is called a check down which is your last option when all your receivers are well covered. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Just now, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: You want more dumpoffs? Thats why I put 'designed" in there. Where CT is the primary look on the play vs Alex quickly checking down to a dumpoff to CT. I just want to see CT used a little bit more, like last year. Of course, CT takes an absolute beating sometimes and I worry that 15+ touches will equal IR. Seems like he has been limited all year in practice. Limited this week. Injuries to Crowder, CT and Richardson this week make it harder for AS and co to get a rhythm going. They barely played together in PS and now everyone is in and out of practice. Im throwing crap against the wall really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJacobyHOForRIOT Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said: Offense: - Get CT more involved w screens, designed dumpoffs, let him chip a rusher real quick and then leak out. - Feed Reed. Just force it. Move him around pre snap to get match ups. Try to get him iso'd. - Run some crossing routes, work the middle more. - at least 2 trick plays this week. Cant Crowder throw a decent pass? maybe pitch it to him behind the LOS and let hi throw one AS or somebody. - Get AP and CT on field at the same time. Defense: - dont let our MLB be responsible for coverage or mid to deep zones .. ever. - blitz a bit more and when you do, dont count 5 rushers as blitz. Bring the heat on 3rd and long and have the corners press hard. If a WR slips by the press, oh well. Most of what you are saying is exactly what we have done in our 2 wins, The only thing you left out was establish the run game. If watch our 2 losses they were both games were we came out trying to pass early. What is Jay thinking??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Dozens of screen passes. Each one more exciting than the last. Atendance soars! Skins to Super Bowl! Snyder named Secretary of State! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Offense: -More 2 TE sets -Do not run CT up the middle -Emphasis on downfield passing (I'd rather keep our RBs in to block than watch them get killed on check down passes) Defense: -No more LBs covering a slot WR in man. This should never happen. If that's the play call, there needs to be an audible to check out of it. -Simplify defense overall. With the issues the secondary is having, maybe we don't need a bunch of different coverages that we can sometimes execute adequately. -Generate more pressure. Blitz in different ways. We cannot rely on the defensive line to generate all of the pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I think if I am Jay Gruden the first thing I do is look at Andy Reid's offense on film and see what Alex Smith excelled at the most. He obviously had a good connection with Kelce. Having a stud Tight End should always be a huge mismatch disadvantage for any defense. Assuming Reed is as good as we all think he is, Gruden should be sending him (and Vernon Davis too since he has shown he can still beat defenders in a foot race) downfield more. Kelce wasn't running five yard comeback routes. He was going downfield like a WR and getting open, and Alex Smith was hitting him in stride. Why can't Gruden and the other Coordinators modify the scheme to find Reed a bigger role? When it comes to the rest of the offense it is really hard to say because I don't know if the skill position players are good enough to take things into their own hands. I would say that because we have seen a huge increase in blitzes against this O-line, they definitely need to get Alex Smith bootlegging & rolling out a lot more. Also, get Crowder & Richardson on screens. Take a more pro-active approach to neutralizing the opponents pass rush instead of just throwing up your hands and hoping the pass blocking magically improves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyst Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Our passing game takes too damn long at times. We need quicker routes. Where the hell are our slants for a quick 5/6 yards? Reed and Crowder are damn good at the slant route and yet it seems we rarely do it. If the line sucks, a quick slant can negate that easily. 4&2 and we try to run a pass play that takes 3+ seconds to form. Coaching issue in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, NoCalMike said: I would say that because we have seen a huge increase in blitzes against this O-line, they definitely need to get Alex Smith bootlegging & rolling out a lot more. Also, get Crowder & Richardson on screens. Take a more pro-active approach to neutralizing the opponents pass rush instead of just throwing up your hands and hoping the pass blocking magically improves. ^^ this times 1,000. I think a lot of us thought Alex would be rolling out, moving the pocket etc ... maybe that is one of the last things they install and they arent done installing yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 9 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said: I would simplify things on offense. Don't be pretty good at a lot of different things, be great at a few. Dictate to the defense and don't always just take what the defense gives you. In general, that's a great approach and appreciate Alex for not turning the ball over much. But you have to take some chances in this league, it's impractical to think every single week you are going to sustain 11-12 play drives and score TDs like we did against Arizona and Green Bay. And even though I want to simplify things on offense from the standpoint of how many plays we run, I want to see more creativity when it comes to the mix of run and pass. It feels we run on first down 80%+ of the time. Run some PA on first down, get the defense on their heels. Get the screen game going even more. Take some shots early and often to open up the real strength of our team, the underneath stuff with CT/AP/Reed/Crowder. On D, I want to get a little more aggressive with stunts and not always relying on our guys to beat their guys one on one. Bring a couple corner blitzes, blitzes up the middle, etc. I would like to SDH/JHC get some more time too from a personnel standpoint. I'm about fed up with Josh's play, he better have a big week this week against his existing team or I think it's time to run with Dunny and Moreau as the 1 and 2. Feature Swearinger some more, get him involved and near the line of scrimmage. I want to see two competent weeks back to back. This season has me more confused than any in recent memory, I have no idea at this point if we are going to bottom out and get a top 5 pick or go to the playoffs. Neither would shock me at this point, which is not what I would have said before the season. All 51 other guys need to adopt the attitude of the BAMA boys up front. Show some emotion, look like you care. Last week really pissed me off, we rolled over and got it taken to us. Nothing makes me more mad than what seems to be a total lack of effort. Camp Jay needs to bring the heat this week and every week. Otherwise, I think 5 years will be the end of the Jay Gruden era. Don't faint, but I agree with everything here. I would only add one thing to this. I'd like to see us run hurry-up more. Sure, I'd like to see it when we're down 3 scores (and still don't run it) but I'd like to see it as a change of pace. I think we need to at times run it because the O gets lethargic at times, and it needs a spark. Everything else I think is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Watch the WRs and TEs. At times, they're not even attempting to 'sell their route', they take a couple of half-assed steps and look to see what happened. When the 1st and 2nd options are taken away, THATS when the others should be stepping up and getting open. But its nearly impossible for anything good to happen when receivers don't bother to put in an effort if they know they're in the lower-half of the option route. SELL YOUR ROUTE. I'd also like to see them taking more chances downfield. I doubt Doctson will pan out so just consider him gone after this season; the guy hurts himself opening a soda can. The FO needs to look into getting some WRs taller than the Smurfs; there are tall WRs available, bring them in, groom them, and give them a chance. How many times have we watched a WR being thrown to deep, and when the ball comes down they don't even make an effort to go for it unless it drops perfectly in their hands. Defensively, stop with the experimenting. With the league going aerial, slower LBers are not as effective except in the running game and even then they get blocked out of the picture. Find a good secondary coach and give him the DC job, and encourage him to operate some modified form of the 4-6. Speed kills and it was displayed for all to see this past Monday night, and its only going to get worse, so don't be behind the times, get ahead of the curve. WRs are getting taller and faster [ except on the Redskins ] thus it dictates having a way to counter this. A LB doesn't stand a chance against them, and I think it is a slowly dying breed, just as fullbacks. If anything, experiment with the idea of hiring more assistant coaches. Gibbs had far more coaches than anyone else, and that led to more detailed tutoring which led to much better outcomes, and oh BTW, a few SuperBowl titles. Players coming out of college would benefit far more with a more informed and detailed instruction-led coaching job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Man, I am not in agreement with the "feed Reed" sentiment. I do think he needs to be more involved... But Vernon Davis is our hands down best offensive threat that isn't Peterson or Thompson. The dude gets open, runs good and smart routes and finds ways to get the job done. If we're going to try to force it to anyone it should be him. Therein lies another problem... Our best offensive "skills" guys: Adrian Peterson - Last second signing, aging, may or may not be around next year with Guice around, or he may but who knows. Chris Thompson - young. Injury prone a touch due to size. But electric and a legit top talent at the scat back position in the NFL. Jordan Reed - young. Injury prone. Electric and top 3-6 talent at his position in the NFL. Vernon Davis - Aging. May or may not be around next year due to age/not sure of his contract status. So our top four offensive skill position players are either: Aging/unsure on status for next season or injury prone. You can't build an offense around that. 22 hours ago, Wildbunny said: I've always wondered how can a C or a LS make a false start. They are the ones snapping the ball and thus starting to play... So that shouldn't happen in any way... If the center snaps and no one else moves, they call a false start to save someone on the offense from potential death... Also if the center lifts the ball early it can create offsides penalties. So they call any movement of the ball that is remotely similar to a snap as a false start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeThreeKingsRuleU Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 So now that the game is over and everyone is (hopefully) recovering from victory Monday, how did your requests/predictions do? A few things I saw: -Obviously with CT and Crowder out we didn't get to see any "designed" screens, as opposed to dumpoffs, but this may have worked out in our favor, almost forcing Jay to call more downfield throws -I did see Alex targeting the hashes on several of his throws, the TD to Vernon Davis coming to mind -On the heels of that observation, I did see Jay calling more multiple TE sets, thanks Jay -glad Richardson got to go, he was playing hurt, still is, but made a big difference -When they brought extra rushers on defense (DJ, Mason) good things happened, was this due to an increase in blitzes called? or where they actually just getting home this time? -Oline pass pro still looks like it needs some work, and I didn't see as many bootlegs as we had hoped Any one else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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