Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

To tie in Alex Smith, he chose not to leverage his earning potential to the max and take a deal that will average about 10.5% of the salary cap over the life of it. I can roll with him at this number. 

 

Dude, Alex Smith got the absolute most Alex Smith was ever going to get.  The Redskins were the highest bidder in guaranteed money.  Are you of the impression that he left money on the table?  Curious how you came to that conclusion.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

13 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

So you’re here to care about old near billionaires, because they had enough money to purchase the rights to the team you like?

 

This is why fandom can be so much like politics it’s scary.

 

 

Hmmm, seems you just wanted to make that point....

 

No, I don't care one bit how Dan Snyder is doing but some of the things that benefit THE ORGANIZATION will lead to a better team which is all I really care about. Not really caring who the players are (again, at a macro level) isn't the same as rooting for Dan Snyder. This really shouldn't be a tough concept. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Hmmm, seems you just wanted to make that point....

 

No, I don't care one bit how Dan Snyder is doing but some of the things that benefit THE ORGANIZATION will lead to a better team which is all I really care about. Not really caring who the players are (again, at a macro level) isn't the same as rooting for Dan Snyder. This really shouldn't be a tough concept. 

 

I was spinning your statement back at you.  I got what you meant, I just wanted you to see how silly it sounded in reverse.

 

I guess I’m just not getting how guaranteeing contracts ruins the game or cripples a team, unless said team doesn’t make great decisions.  It seems to me the only thing ‘hurt’ in this scenario is the owners pockets.

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I was spinning your statement back at you.  I got what you meant, I just wanted you to see how silly it sounded in reverse.

 

I guess I’m just not getting how guaranteeing contracts ruins the game or cripples a team, unless said team doesn’t make great decisions.  It seems to me the only thing ‘hurt’ in this scenario is the owners pockets.

 

 

 

Well "great decisions" is the huge caveat here. I love the Redskins, but also acknowledge that they don't get it right plenty of times. Therefore, if they throw "bad money" at someone, it does impact their ability to improve the team over the life of that contract. Multiply that over a couple/few guys and it's even worse. 

 

Different sport, but don't you think the money that the Orioles gave to Chris Davis a couple years ago has and will impact them moving forward? It's most likely contributed to their inability to even consider re-signing Manny Machado. 

[Bifflog]

27 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I guess I’m just not getting how guaranteeing contracts ruins the game or cripples a team, unless said team doesn’t make great decisions.  It seems to me the only thing ‘hurt’ in this scenario is the owners pockets.

 

 

 

The argument that person A often sides with management of his own team he's a fan of in contract disputes with a player, and the argument that person A sides with all management over all players, are not one in the same.  Seems like a re-frame of the conversation (or we were just never talking about the same thing anyway...)

 

Put it this way, no one gives a damn about Dan Snyder or his wallet, if there was a new owner tomorrow, and a new contract to be signed for a player on Saturday, a fan of the team interested in winning would want that contract not to have a crippling effect regardless.  Whether fans are 1) good at assessing player abilities and 2) good at assessing contract values versus the abilities of said player is up for debate, but I don't believe this is a hard concept.  I don't think you'd advocate that going forward, the 'Skins should just resign every player at 120% market value because hey, who care's about Dan's money.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Dude, Alex Smith got the absolute most Alex Smith was ever going to get.  The Redskins were the highest bidder in guaranteed money.  Are you of the impression that he left money on the table?  Curious how you came to that conclusion.

 

Though I'm on the other side of the fence on most of this discussion, I'm 100% with you here. I am sure Smith got as much as he could (as he should) when he was negotiating the extension with the Redskins. I would be shocked to hear that he accepted less for whatever reason. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Well "great decisions" is the huge caveat here. I love the Redskins, but also acknowledge that they don't get it right plenty of times. Therefore, if they throw "bad money" at someone, it does impact their ability to improve the team over the life of that contract. Multiply that over a couple/few guys and it's even worse. 

 

Different sport, but don't you think the money that the Orioles gave to Chris Davis a couple years ago has and will impact them moving forward? It's most likely contributed to their inability to even consider re-signing Manny Machado. 

 

Sure, the Davis deal is awful.  But it looked awful before it even happened.  That was just a bad decision and poor planning to make that deal with Mannys deal looming particularly.

 

I get your point as to the Skins making bad decisions.  But every team has to deal with the same situations, same cap, etc.  No matter what the landscape of contracts looks like, it all boils down to the FO making good decisions.  

 

If our hopes to prosper are for our own players to sign bargain deals to stay here, providing wiggle room for Bruce’s mistakes, we’re still up ****’s creek.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

If our hopes to prosper are for our own players to sign bargain deals to stay here, providing wiggle room for Bruce’s mistakes, we’re still up ****’s creek.

 

That's not incorrect, but it still doesn't remove the instinct to want to give the team you like the most margin for error. The more cap space or wiggle room that our guys have, the better the chances are that they'll succeed. That, to me, is the bottom line. 

 

It's not to say that I'm cursing athletes or thinking they are greedy at all. But it's why I always want my team to get the better of a deal. It's not dissimilar to my instinct to ALWAYS want guys who leave not to play well elsewhere. It's not that I have a strong hatred for someone like Ryan Grant, I just want the team I love to be correct in their assessment and be better off with his replacement. 

[Skinsinparadise]

On 7/19/2018 at 11:13 AM, SWFLSkins said:

 

 

One hundo %. Nothing shocks me anymore, lol. 

 

11-5, 7-9 subplot stuff we are talking about -- the comment below from Finlay has been echoed by multiple guys who said they talked to sources within the FO.  The idea that behind the scenes they are very sure of themselves is an interesting subplot to me.  If I recall it was Finlay who said that the people he talks to at Redskins Park even scoff at the idea of shooting for a wild card and that they think their roster is set to win the division.

 

I find it interesting hearing how confident they are behind in the scenes and I can't recall an off season similar in that regard.  Either people are setting themselves up for a mighty fall or heck maybe they have it all figured out like they apparently think they have,

 

I've gathered some think I am negative because I don't fully embrace the optimistic glass half full version of things and because I am not a Bruce guy and I still like Kirk -- but the reality for me as I am not negative at all.  I can totally see the positive outcome go down.  But I just can't recall an off season where I am so up in the air.  That to me should be part of the fun - like watching a move that's totally fresh and unpredictable.  It's part of the reason why I am flying to the opener -- i am fascinated by this but not because I think its all going to work out or not work out -- but I really have no feel for it and typically I think I do have a sense of a season.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/10-questions-10-days-shawn-lauvao-concern-or-issue-bigger-o-line

All offseason, the Washington brass walked a fine line between confidence and arrogance. The organization believes strongly in the players they already have, and outside of signing Paul Richardson and re-signing Zach Brown, the team had a quiet offseason. The Redskins struggled to run the ball the last few years, and still, the team did not look to upgrade at LG. 

 

[SWFLSkins]

46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

11-5, 7-9 subplot stuff we are talking about -- the comment below from Finlay has been echoed by multiple guys who said they talked to sources within the FO.  The idea that behind the scenes they are very sure of themselves is an interesting subplot to me.  If I recall it was Finlay who said that the people he talks to at Redskins Park even scoff at the idea of shooting for a wild card and that they think their roster is set to win the division.

 

I find it interesting hearing how confident they are behind in the scenes and I can't recall an off season similar in that regard.  Either people are setting themselves up for a mighty fall or heck maybe they have it all figured out like they apparently think they have,

 

I've gathered some think I am negative because I don't fully embrace the optimistic glass half full version of things and because I am not a Bruce guy and I still like Kirk -- but the reality for me as I am not negative at all.  I can totally see the positive outcome go down.  But I just can't recall an off season where I am so up in the air.  That to me should be part of the fun - like watching a move that's totally fresh and unpredictable.  It's part of the reason why I am flying to the opener -- i am fascinated by this but not because I think its all going to work out or not work out -- but I really have no feel for it and typically I think I do have a sense of a season.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/10-questions-10-days-shawn-lauvao-concern-or-issue-bigger-o-line

All offseason, the Washington brass walked a fine line between confidence and arrogance. The organization believes strongly in the players they already have, and outside of signing Paul Richardson and re-signing Zach Brown, the team had a quiet offseason. The Redskins struggled to run the ball the last few years, and still, the team did not look to upgrade at LG. 

 

 

I know the Finlay thing was mostly in regard to LG, but he was also speaking in general terms when that point was made. I guess they are counting on the D to pick up quite a bit of slack and stop teams from running up the score. I think the team will do well, win the division.....balls to the wall there. But Hey I guess being confident is what they do...I would think if anything they would have learned some sort of level of humility. But I guess this time a year it's about the sales. 

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

20 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Wanting your team to be good is the same in a league where the money is guaranteed vs. now, where it’s far from it.  All teams have the same cap and the same draft opportunities as one another.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually it it is not the same at all. If it was the same the Redskins would still be paying Terrell McClain and he would still be counting against the cap. That’s the thing that the guaranteed money crowd never takes into account. 

 

If the NFL goes to guaranteed contracts 95% of the contracts (after rookie deals) will be 1-2 years and team rosters will turn over at a rate that it will definitely effect the product on the field. 

 

The NFL is the sport where continuity is most important...and that will be destroyed. 

 

This is...of course...just my opinion...but I don’t think I’m too far off in my “thinking”...though I have had a few brew doggies. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

On 3/13/2018 at 7:56 AM, Veryoldschool said:

Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith

 

Every time I see this thread, I wonder, what kind of play are we possibly going to run, with 100,000 people lined up behind Smith ?

[wit33]

18 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Dude, Alex Smith got the absolute most Alex Smith was ever going to get.  The Redskins were the highest bidder in guaranteed money.  Are you of the impression that he left money on the table?  Curious how you came to that conclusion.

 

 

His contract will be around 10% of the teams  salary cap over the life of the deal. His next two years (all I could check) will rank him the 20s of QBs per year salary. He most likely drop down further as QBs get deals behind him. Thank 

 

This idea the Skins paid him a lot when comparing the rest of the league is false. Teams will be dying to sign their respective QBs who rank anywhere from 8-22 or whatever to the kind of contract Smith got. 

 

With that said, his contract may be the return of the average to above average QBs not being so overly valued and paid. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 hours ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

 

Actually it it is not the same at all. If it was the same the Redskins would still be paying Terrell McClain and he would still be counting against the cap. That’s the thing that the guaranteed money crowd never takes into account. 

 

If the NFL goes to guaranteed contracts 95% of the contracts (after rookie deals) will be 1-2 years and team rosters will turn over at a rate that it will definitely effect the product on the field. 

 

The NFL is the sport where continuity is most important...and that will be destroyed. 

 

This is...of course...just my opinion...but I don’t think I’m too far off in my “thinking”...though I have had a few brew doggies. 

 

Doesnt that still boil down to FO’s having to make good decisions?  Terrell McClain was available to all 32 teams. 

 

I’ll give you this, that’s a unique concern with some validity, but I don’t think that’s where most fans are coming from, even if they agree with you after you brought it up.  Because you’re the first I’ve seen here provide that type of context to your opinion.

[bakedtater1]

12 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Every time I see this thread, I wonder, what kind of play are we possibly going to run, with 100,000 people lined up behind Smith ?

Damn...our fan base has dropped down to 100,000?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

With that said, his contract may be the return of the average to above average QBs not being so overly valued and paid. 

My point wasn’t whether or not Smith’s contract was a good value.  It was that your original post painted as if he was doing the Redskins a favor when taking his deal.  He wasn’t and shouldn’t have.

[wit33]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

My point wasn’t whether or not Smith’s contract was a good value.  It was that your original post painted as if he was doing the Redskins a favor when taking his deal.  He wasn’t and shouldn’t have.

 

Call it what you want...

 

In my view through looking at the numbers, Smith got some long term stability and the Skins got a low per year deal in comparison to the “market”. 

 

I think the Skins were elated to get a guy 9% of the cap this year and in the 10s thereafter. 

 

With all that said, I’m not even some huge Smith supporter, just think he’s in line with average to above average QBs (with his one ace in the hole being his legs). A QB who isn’t a game changer consistently shouldn’t command percentages in the 13, 14 and 15 percent. 

 

I know you’re not debating all that, just to provide a little context of this conclusion was reached. 

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

4 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

Damn...our fan base has dropped down to 100,000?

 

 

Maybe many of them switched to Minnesota ?

Actually I was thinking in terms of the forum population, as opposed to the total fanbase.

[HTTRDynasty]

Replay of last year's Chiefs vs. Titans playoff game at 8pm EST tonight, on NFLN, for those interested. 

[Wildbunny]

Great article by Kimerbley A. Martin (girl is really going somewhere as a reporter). on the Post if you want to read:

 

 

And if you've reached your limit of articles there, navigate in private will get you through it.

[bakedtater1]

4 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

Maybe many of them switched to Minnesota ?

Actually I was thinking in terms of the forum population, as opposed to the total fanbase.

Ahhh got ya.. good Minnesota can have them..

[zCommander]

21 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Every time I see this thread, I wonder, what kind of play are we possibly going to run, with 100,000 people lined up behind Smith ?

 

Ummmm... it is called the back door swing gate. 

[HardcoreZorn]

6 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

Great article by Kimerbley A. Martin (girl is really going somewhere as a reporter). on the Post if you want to read:

 

 

And if you've reached your limit of articles there, navigate in private will get you through it.

Thanks for sharing and a really good article. I’m sure you’ll get crickets because it’s a positive spin something Redskins related. 

 

But I don’t know if I truly ever thought about how incredible it was the dude went from David Carr to the season he had last year. That does take a special individual, no doubt about that.

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

23 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Replay of last year's Chiefs vs. Titans playoff game at 8pm EST tonight, on NFLN, for those interested. 

I taped it and I'm just into the 1st period 14 to 0 and Alex is dropping dimes on those passes...20-30 yards on a rope...how the hell KC only scored 1 more TD and Titans came back to win...I have to watch....but geez..no slow starter here

 

Now 21!! 50 seconds and he scores....WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED in the 2nd half???

 

I almost don't want to watch the rest I'm so high on Alex now...did Alex screw up and turn it over...I have to watch and see...I didn't watch these games in protest of the flag bs..only streamed skins games

 

THAT was on Hill's drops, the D and Reid's conservative play calling after the TE went down until the last drive when he went for it all (and Alex put the ball again where it had to be) and not 9 yards. Alex was SUPER!! I am excited to have him on the team!!!

 

If you watch this and don't think we've upgraded at QB...well to each his own.

 

That is what *I* saw and LIKED!

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

20 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED in the 2nd half???

 

1. No Travis Kelce / replacement TE's were terrible

2. Typical conservative Reid play-calling once they had the big lead

3. Terrible run defense by the Chiefs all half led to a low TOP for the Chiefs offense

4. Smith missed a couple of throws

 

That's just from my memory of watching it a few months ago on YouTube.  I recorded the one that aired last night and will probably watch it at some point today to dig deeper.