ThinkProgress: Trump confidant dumped millions in steel-related stock last week (Also the Trade War thread)

[SkinsHokieFan]

3 hours ago, zoony said:

 

You dont see us maintaining a competent steel and aluminum industry as national security issues?

 

As for your other question, how many people knew about this when Obama or GwB were president?  My guess is 0.0.  It is now part of the conversation

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/08/elon-musk-sides-with-trump-on-trade-with-china-citing-25-percent-import-duty-on-american-cars.html

 

I was certainly ****ing about W's steel tariffs back in '02, at the height of my partisan R days.

 

I don't see domestic steel production as a national security issue so long as we owe China trillions of dollars. They aren't going to destabalize the world economy considering how much they have invested throughout the developing world (see 58 billion just in Pakistan, all the investments they have made in Africa). The Chinese will want to make good on their investments and the easiest ways for those investments to go bust is to start a conflict with America

 

This brings me back to this point: China is running around the world building things for the developing world. Kind of like we did after WW2. If anything, in a generation we are going to be boxed in because of our "America first" strategy that Trump has unleashed

Edited March 28, 2018 by SkinsHokieFan

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

3 hours ago, zoony said:

 

You dont see us maintaining a competent steel and aluminum industry as national security issues?

 

 

We do have a competent steel and aluminum industry. What we don't have are a lot of steel and aluminum jobs.

 

And of the steel we produce, we need around 3 percent of it for Defense.

 

The problem with Trump's economic policies is that there is a grain of truth in them. China is overly protectionist.

 

However, he doesn't know what any of this means. Opening up Chinese markets will help the heavy equipment companies that comprise our current manufacturing base. And that would be good.

 

However, a trade war to get there is a bad idea.

 

Moreover, he doesn't understand the concept of a trade surplus. He thinks trade is a zero sum gain. If we have a deficit with China, somehow they are winning. However a console tv in 1980 cost about three week's salary while a high def flat screen costs about 1/4 week's salary. He doesn't get why trade imbalances exist.

 

Finally, none of this is going to fulfill his promise of bringing factories back from wherever they came from. I think he honestly believes that Pittsburgh is going to tear down the waterslide park and rebuild the Homestead Works.

[zoony]

2 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

We do have a competent steel and aluminum industry. What we don't have are a lot of steel and aluminum jobs.

 

And of the steel we produce, we need around 3 percent of it for Defense.

 

The problem with Trump's economic policies is that there is a grain of truth in them. China is overly protectionist.

 

However, he doesn't know what any of this means. Opening up Chinese markets will help the heavy equipment companies that comprise our current manufacturing base. And that would be good.

 

However, a trade war to get there is a bad idea.

 

Moreover, he doesn't understand the concept of a trade surplus. He thinks trade is a zero sum gain. If we have a deficit with China, somehow they are winning. However a console tv in 1980 cost about three week's salary while a high def flat screen costs about 1/4 week's salary. He doesn't get why trade imbalances exist.

 

Finally, none of this is going to fulfill his promise of bringing factories back from wherever they came from. I think he honestly believes that Pittsburgh is going to tear down the waterslide park and rebuild the Homestead Works.

 

1.  Ive been on record that i dont think tarriffs on raw materials are the way to go.  That said, any kind of bar graph of the last 20 years is frightening.

2.  I have firsthand knowledge of `basic` technology that can no longer be produced in this country because there just are no longer any US sources of supply.  It is a sad day in this country when consumers want `made in usa` but it is no longer possible.

 

3.  Above all, I stand by my original point.  Why are we on page 10 of this thread and just now talking about those mother****ing chinese cheating commie ****s?  Why did countless presidents and lawmakers do nothing?  Are we American or just anti trump hysterical children?  Why has this conversation not been part of the national lexicon over the past 20 years?

 

Show of hands, how many know about the fixed currency exchange rate that china pulled for years to target US manufacturing jobs and build their economy?  It was against IMF agreements and they didnt back off until Shumer threatened 30 percent tarriffs in 2005.  I will go ahead and answer how many know... 0.0.  Although Im sure someone will google it and quote me to `fill me in` here shortly (save your time i have google too).   China is still known as a manipulator.... and we allow it.  It is maddening

2 hours ago, SkinsHokieFan said:

 

I was certainly ****ing about W's steel tariffs back in '02, at the height of my partisan R days.

 

I don't see domestic steel production as a national security issue so long as we owe China trillions of dollars. They aren't going to destabalize the world economy considering how much they have invested throughout the developing world (see 58 billion just in Pakistan, all the investments they have made in Africa). The Chinese will want to make good on their investments and the easiest ways for those investments to go bust is to start a conflict with America

 

This brings me back to this point: China is running around the world building things for the developing world. Kind of like we did after WW2. If anything, in a generation we are going to be boxed in because of our "America first" strategy that Trump has unleashed

 

The EU and The US are building quite a bit around the world too.  So is Japan

 

And Im not talking about war with china.  Just that basic raw material capacity and the means of production should reside in the united states at all times whether or not it is economically feasible to produce or not

[Larry]

1 hour ago, zoony said:

Show of hands, how many know about the fixed currency exchange rate that china pulled for years to target US manufacturing jobs and build their economy? 

 

Raises hand.  

 

(Well, I'm aware that the US claims it, China denies it, and I believe the US a whole lot more on the issue.)  

[FanboyOf91]

Quote

What they're saying: China's stated objective is to dominate the primary industries of future wealth and the jobs that come with them, including artificial intelligence, robotics, self-driving and electric cars, and advanced microchips. It is smoothing its path there using tech obtained through means including coercion of western companies, according to long-standing industry complaints.

• The aim in the current U.S. trade talks, these experts tell Axios, should include a halt to Beijing's forced transfer of know-how as a price of doing business in China. There should be a level playing field in the battle for these future industries, what Beijing has dubbed Made in China 2025.
• But U.S. negotiators instead seem to be focused on greater access to China's financial markets, lower tariffs, more chip sales and other dollar steps toward reduce the annual trade imbalance.
• "Trump is fixated on trade balances, that deficits mean one is being cheated," said Scott Kennedy of the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "But reducing the trade deficit is different from hamstringing China's industrial policy, from inhibiting China Inc."

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[visionary]

 

[FanboyOf91]

All too easy.

 

[PeterMP]

On 3/28/2018 at 10:46 AM, zoony said:

 

You dont see us maintaining a competent steel and aluminum industry as national security issues?

 

As for your other question, how many people knew about this when Obama or GwB were president?  My guess is 0.0.  It is now part of the conversation

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/08/elon-musk-sides-with-trump-on-trade-with-china-citing-25-percent-import-duty-on-american-cars.html

The Chinese taxes on cars go back to an agreement that was made when China joined the WTO. 

http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/08/news/economy/elon-musk-trump-china/index.html

 

"Lovely said there's a reason why the United States and China have such drastically different tariff rates for imported cars. It goes back to when China first joined the World Trade Organization, and it hashed out a deal with the US to keep car tariffs high while slashing import taxes on other goods, such as soybeans."

 

In that sense, it is actually legal and part of a legal agreement.  As such, the US doesn't have an actually legal leg to stand on without getting slapped down by the WTO and so it doesn't get much attention.

 

If you want to change that, then the key is to renegotiate the deal.  The problem is that when you do that somebody is going to lose and somebody is going to complain (see the recent negotiation of the sugar trade agreement with Mexico).

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-mexico-cost-idUSKBN1900GA

 

Obama (and others took) various actions when China clearly cheated (and with minimal positive impact on the US economy).

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/03/news/economy/obama-china-tire-tariff/index.html

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tariffs-trade-analysis-20160724-snap-story.html

 

And various actions by Obama (and others) with respect to things like tires did get attention.

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by PeterMP

[FanboyOf91]

Some relevant parties are getting annoyed.

[FanboyOf91]

 

[No Excuses]

11 minutes ago, FanboyOf91 said:

 

 

Playing the worlds tiniest violin for all of these people.

[zoony]

`nuts, pork, fruit, and wine` would be a solid name for a punk band

[Larry]

3 hours ago, zoony said:

`nuts, pork, fruit, and wine` would be a solid name for a punk band

 

So would "Trump voters". 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[Larry]

Wow.  A trade War is escalating.  Who would have expected that?  

 

[FanboyOf91]

Quote

U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer has begun floating the idea of a deal in principle. The Trump administration is aiming to announce a preliminary deal at a summit in Peru next week, according to people familiar with the talks. That kind of stopgap would be “largely designed to keep the markets calm,” said Dan Ujczo, an Ohio-based trade lawyer at Dickinson Wright. But it would likely stop short of a formal agreement the three countries could sign, let alone embark on the arduous process of seeking approval in their respective legislatures.

 

In other words, Trump may get his deal in principle, but it may be months, even years, before an official updated Nafta comes into force.

Basically, he wants an empty box that may be filled at some point in the future (maybe).

[FanboyOf91]

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by visionary

[killerbee99]

Yeah, bring those jobs back.... MAGA... that will teach those Chinese... Where is zoony for his daily pyscho babble about how Trump got it all figured out

[Bozo the kKklown]

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Mr. Sinister]

22 hours ago, zoony said:

`nuts, pork, fruit, and wine` would be a solid name for a punk band

 

"Swine Fruit"