The Definition of a Loser Franchise

[Probos]

The trade is in keeping with a long line of patch work moves by this franchise over an almost 20 period.  It's actually one of the better case scenarios given how bad they botched the Cousins deal, but, it's a decision/deal that is the outcome of bad/piss-poor management.  That's what loser franchises do, and what the Skins continue to do.

[RichmondRedskin88]

Definition? US

[The Batman]

3 hours ago, hail2skins said:

Nice post RTF.

 

Between the end of Spurrier's second season, Gibbs 2.0's 5-11 debacle following 2005, the Zorn travesty in 2009, and then the Shanny collapse in 2013, is the way this QB situation has gone down the lowest?

 

I'm not sure I'm a fan of the trade either yet, but is this a serious question? Seriously? Let's look at this objectively, shall we?

 

It's hard to quantify "choking" (although Cousins has certainly shown that he is well capable of it), but we can still look at a couple of important games. Twice in the last two years, Cousins has had the opportunity to put us into the playoffs. One game each time was all it took. In those games, he has combined for 445 yards, 1 TD, and 5 INTs (0 TD/3 INT against a team picking second, that had 2 wins going into that game). In that context, I'm not sure how much the rest of his regular season games matter. He has also been hilariously inconsistent his entire career. But for the sake of argument, let's look at some of the QBs you mentioned. Mark Brunell was 36 in 2006 and had had a barely serviceable season the year prior in which it was clear that he was very clearly on the losing end of Father Time. Zorn in 2009 had Jason Campbell (Agenda Boyz unite!), a QB whose best professional season featured 20 TDs. Once. Shanahan had Cousins and the shadow of RG3, but remember that he had also previously juggled Grossman and Beck. Grossman had double-digit TDs two times in a ten year career. John Beck had three touchdowns EVER. I'm not even going to go into Spurrier's second season QBs, because they aren't worth mentioning in the context of an NFL discussion.

 

Alex Smith, the QB we just traded for, since arriving in Kansas City, has accounted for TD to INT stats of 23/7, 18/6, 20/7, 15/8, and 26/5. In that same span, Cousins, who is also about to be 30 when next season starts, the 30 year old QB you all wanted us to throw a 6 year deal at (sound like the same old 'Skins throwing a huge contract at a player on the wrong side of 30 to you?), has put up TD to INT stats of 10/9, 29/11, 25/12, and 27/13. His INT percentage the last few years is around 2.3%, and Alex Smith's hasn't been above 1.6% since arriving in Kansas City. Will Smith throw fewer touchdowns? Almost assuredly. Will he throw fewer picks? It's almost a guarantee. Cousins has been both a huge asset and an incredible liability on the field, and this is not to mention the circus surrounding the LTD offers he's received. I personally have been of the belief that he is not worth the money he would command, but the crazy thing is this board seemed to be convinced of it. You don't know what Smith will do for this franchise, but we ALL KNOW what Cousins does for it. Pay him more money for what? HE. DOES. NOT. ELEVATE. THIS. TEAM. Not at his current pay, and not with years and years and years to develop. Maybe somewhere else he wins 5 Super Bowls but this isn't the place. He has had the opportunity to rise above and carry us forward and he has consistently failed to do so. Don't give me a bunch of excuses about his support staff. Most QBs would have KILLED to play on a team with the kind of receiving and OL talent he's had prior to this year and he still couldn't stop choking long enough to get us into the playoffs last year or this one, and the one time he did? Oh right. Against the Packers, 329 yards, 1 TD, 1 rushing TD, 3 fumbles. A Packers team that promptly got bounced from the playoffs after giving up 26 to the Cardinals. 

 

The bottom line is that Cousins is simply not a better QB than Alex Smith has been thus far. All the Cousins apologists have come out of the woodwork to point out that Smith had Hunt and Kelce. Okay, Cousins had DeSean Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Jordan Reed, Vernon Davis, and Jamison Crowder to throw to. Who else has Smith had? 

 

Faced with the choice of overpaying Cousins or going out and getting a QB that has proven at least a high degree of competence and will not be as expensive in salary but will cost us a third round pick and a promising young player at arguably our deepest position, this seems to me like a move that keeps us competitive but also gives us the opportunity to draft a player when one falls to us that we like (ala Allen last year) at a cost that doesn't mortgage the future like many of our past QB acquisitions have done. This is NOWHERE NEAR the league of the most costly QB decisions we've ever made. We gave up a corner who has had one good season (a player, by the way, that many on the board were calling a bust and a wasted pick and lamenting that we didn't take ______ instead after his first year) and a third rounder for a proven QB who can win you games. We gave up TWO FIRSTS AND A SECOND FOR A PLAYER THAT HAD 2/3 OF ONE GOOD YEAR. We all need to take a deep breath and gain some perspective on this. Losing Fuller and a third doesn't make us instantly a team that is garbage, and Smith doesn't instantly make us a SB winner. We save some money and can build the roster the right way (I hope, but don't expect) while having a QB with potentially 4-5 good seasons left and time to find his replacement. Cousins, by the time Smith will retire, will be older than Smith is now. He was never going to be a ten year guy for us on a new long term deal. This is, ironically, exactly the kind of move many of us have been clamoring for for some time. Don't overpay, don't mortgage the future, stay competitive but free up some money to build the roster. It's not the end of the world, and it's not a move that "loser franchises" make. It's just a move to try to make something decent out of a bad situation that is every bit as much Cousins' fault as it is the FOs. What would some of you be saying about the  competence of this FO if we had Cousins locked to a 6 year, 28m/year deal before this season and we got to see him lay an egg in a playoffs on the line game but we knew we were shackled to him for the next 5 years? Consider the alternative.

 

Either way, this isn't the kind of move that defines a franchise. We don't have enough skin in the game for it to make a difference long term. Not like moves like RG3 that crippled us for years or Campbell that made us avoid drafting QBs for half a decade or more because of false hope. We know what this guy is, and it'll either be good or it won't, but either way, we aren't really any more behind the 8 ball as a team than we were a few days ago. Deep breaths.

[tmandoug1]

This will be an exciting year........the unknown is always more fun than the known!

 

Known - Cousins wasn't ever going to get it done. When he tanked the Giants game I was over him.

 

Unknown - Draft outcome and will Alex Smith (not a fan) be the Skins savior or our next quarterbacks mentor.

 

 

Ease your rudder guys this may be a good step.........but who knows right?

[The Batman]

4 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

This will be an exciting year........the unknown is always more fun than the known!

 

Known - Cousins wasn't ever going to get it done. When he tanked the Giants game I was over him.

 

Unknown - Draft outcome and will Alex Smith (not a fan) be the Skins savior or our next quarterbacks mentor.

 

 

Ease your rudder guys this may be a good step.........but who knows right?

 

I like your attitude, but the thing is that Smith will NOT be the Redskins' savior. He'll just probably be pretty solid, and give us a chance to keep building the team. As fans we have GOT to stop looking for a savior. THAT is why we are perpetually disappointed. This guy is not as flashy an acquisition (nor as expensive) as a McNabb was and certainly not like RG3 or some of the others, he's just a solid QB. Let's let him be what he is, and don't burden him with ridiculous expectations that he'll either win 5 SBs with us or be the worst QB we've ever had. He's just a guy that could be an upgrade, could be a slight downgrade, but should be solid and lets us focus on other needs while getting a big, huge, titanic distraction that has enveloped the entire team from top to bottom for 3 years behind us.

[Tsailand]

15 minutes ago, The Batman said:

The bottom line is that Cousins is simply not a better QB than Alex Smith has been thus far.

 

Holy **** guess we are going to be debating this for the next five years.  OK, let's go.

 

Kirk is 9th in career ANY/A, up there with the all time greats. Smith is 37th, down with Jay Cutler and David Garrard. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_adj_net_yds_per_att_career.htm

 

OK, it's fair to point out that the NFL is much more of a passing league than when Smith started back in 2005.  So let's just look at the last three years: Kirk 7.00, Smith 6.85.

 

Kirk is better and he is going to be lighting it up long after Alex Smith retires with his $71M.

 

 

[RichmondRedskin88]

Imagine if Warren Buffett had bought the Skins.

[Taylorcooley1]

The definition of a loser franchise..The Washington Redskins. A franchise in the National Football League owned by Daniel M Snyder.

 

So over the past several years it's been pretty tough admitting to being a redskin fan..fortunately alot of folks around here think I support(a local highschool in the area)the teton redskins..who are no longer the teton redskins because the whole nick name debacle..and so I would correct them and say no I'm a fan of the NFL team redskins..I think I'll adopt the whole highschool supporter and save my self the embarrassment of admitting to being a fan of what was once a great franchise in the NFL...In years past ..I mean up to yesterday I wasn't afraid to admit I've been a life long fan..now I'm just to embarrassed to admit I'm a fan at all..YOU REALY SCREWED THE POOCH THIS TIME BRUCE!!.. wait... just like I did in another thread and predicted Alex Smith to be our Week 1 quarterback could I also predict that Snyder picks up on all of the backlash from this and **** cans Bruce by time the draft happens?

[pjfootballer]

Again, I’m not mad about the trade. I understand it. A third for Smith would’ve been ok with me. Throwing in Fuller was stupid. I would have rather thrown in a future pick to be determined based on Smith’s performance along with the third.

 

And to address the “FO was trying to make the best of a bad situation” in that long post above @The Batman- It was the damn FO that created that bad situation in the first place by not wrapping Cousins up two years ago at a manageable price. The price we’re now paying Smith.

[skins island connection]

I wasn't expecting Cousins to sign a LTD here, but I was hoping.

Hoping him and the FO would have an 11th hour meeting, and KC would sign a contract under what he wanted but above what the FO offered.

 

This organization is like a dive team championship meet. then Bruce Allen runs and does a belly buster in the pool, thinking its a frat party.

I am done with this organization. Bruce Allen will never ever take away my memories of the 80's when this team was relevant; far as I'm concerned, I hope he gets hit by a bus.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

And now this trade. Even a jackassical troglodyte like Bruce Allen realized the best thing for the team would be to tag and trade Cousins and get some value. But that would have meant taking heat for letting him go. So instead he goes and gets a new QB, so the headlines are largely about that. If it cost us too much to get Smith and we sacrificed the potential trade return for Kirk, so be it. As long as it was done to benefit Bruce's PR

I think you have an excellent post.  This is the only part that I disagree with, in this way.  I don't think that there was any way that they could have done a sign and trade this year because it would have necessitated Kirk's cooperation, which wasn't going to happen.

 

If you sign him to the franchise tag, and he signs it, you're stuck. He essentially could tell the other team he's not signing a long term deal, and no other team is going to take on a 1 year, $34 million dollar contract. 

 

I never thought a sign and trade was even remotely a possibility, because Kirk wasn't going to do any favors for the 'Skins, and he would have had to have cooperated.  

 

And he wasn't going to.  So, eh, there you go.  He gets what he wants, to be a FA.

 

And we get 2 years of Alex Smith before he completely falls apart.  

 

I don't really have a problem with Alex for a 3rd.  I am super irritated we threw in the second best young defender on the team.  (I still think Jon Allen healthy is #1)

 

QB is more important than DB.  I get that.  Bruce made this mess, and the only way to fix it was to sacrifice what is essentially the team's best defensive prospect, apart from Jon Allen.  

 

Bruce is an idiot.

 

That said, I don't blame him for not trying harder to trade Cousins, because it just wasn't going to happen. 

[The Batman]

3 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

Holy **** guess we are going to be debating this for the next five years.  OK, let's go.

 

Kirk is 9th in career ANY/A, up there with the all time greats. Smith is 37th, down with Jay Cutler and David Garrard. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_adj_net_yds_per_att_career.htm

 

OK, it's fair to point out that the NFL is much more of a passing league than when Smith started back in 2005.  So let's just look at the last three years: Kirk 7.00, Smith 6.85.

 

Kirk is better and he is going to be lighting it up long after Alex Smith retires with his $71M.

 

 

 

I'm glad that you have ascertained that yards, specifically yards per attempt, are the only important metric for a QB, as this is the only stat you've provided to indicate that Cousins is better than Smith. Let's extrapolate a bit: by this logic, you are implying that Cousins is also a better QB than Warner, Roethlisberger, Montana, Marino, Favre, Kelly, Staubach, Moon, and Elway. Also, as you said, the last 3 years Smith has put out a ANY/A that would place him at 8th, tied with Steve Young on the list of all-time greats. However, you've pointed out that the difference is only .15 ANY/A in the last 3 years between the two. For reference, this is the same career difference as exists between, say, Tony Romo and Steve Young (with Romo ahead) or Kurt Warner and Dan Marino. So perhaps then we should look at INT% in the same span of time, since that would likely have more impact on a game than .15 ANY/A. On the list of all-time INT% QBs, Smith is 7th and Cousins is tied with 10 others for 22nd. In just the same 3 year span you mentioned, Smith has been at 1.36% (which would have been good enough for best all-time by the way, beating out Rodgers by over 3/10 of a percentage point) and Cousins has been at 2.13%, meaning that as a function of overall attempts, Smith throws roughly 36% fewer INTs, while only being short .15 ANY/A. Maybe we should look at TDs/attempt? As a function of attempts, Smith throws 4.19% TDs and Cousins has thrown 4.79% TDs, meaning that Smith throws around 13% fewer TDs per attempt than Cousins does. So 2.2% more ANY/A more and 13% more TDs/attempt for Cousins and 36% fewer INTs/attempt. Also, Alex Smith fumbled the ball 13 times in the last 3 years. Cousins fumbled that many times LAST YEAR, 31 times overall. So Cousins, irrespective of attempts, has fumbled 58% more than Smith has in the same span. All while Cousins unquestionably had a significant edge in receiving threats for the first 2 of those 3 years.

 

This argument doesn't mean what you think it means.

[The Batman]

5 minutes ago, pjfootballer said:

Again, I’m not mad about the trade. I understand it. A third for Smith would’ve been ok with me. Throwing in Fuller was stupid. I would have rather thrown in a future pick to be determined based on Smith’s performance along with the third.

 

And to address the “FO was trying to make the best of a bad situation” in that long post above @The Batman- It was the damn FO that created that bad situation in the first place by not wrapping Cousins up two years ago at a manageable price. The price we’re now paying Smith.

 

I may have not followed this closely enough, but do we actually have proof that he was not offered this price and would have taken it if he did? I know our FO is a bunch of idiots but it is very easy after the fact for his camp to cry foul about the offers they weren't made. Also, much as I wanted him to work out, Scot was the one running the ship then.

10 minutes ago, Taylorcooley1 said:

The definition of a loser franchise..The Washington Redskins. A franchise in the National Football League owned by Daniel M Snyder.

 

So over the past several years it's been pretty tough admitting to being a redskin fan..fortunately alot of folks around here think I support(a local highschool in the area)the teton redskins..who are no longer the teton redskins because the whole nick name debacle..and so I would correct them and say no I'm a fan of the NFL team redskins..I think I'll adopt the whole highschool supporter and save my self the embarrassment of admitting to being a fan of what was once a great franchise in the NFL...In years past ..I mean up to yesterday I wasn't afraid to admit I've been a life long fan..now I'm just to embarrassed to admit I'm a fan at all..YOU REALY SCREWED THE POOCH THIS TIME BRUCE!!.. wait... just like I did in another thread and predicted Alex Smith to be our Week 1 quarterback could I also predict that Snyder picks up on all of the backlash from this and **** cans Bruce by time the draft happens?

 

I just don't know what to tell you. THIS is what makes you jump ship? THIS? Not RG3, not Zorn, not McNabb, not a million other ill-advised and future mortgaging moves, but THIS? Trading a third and a good young CB who had one great year for a QB that is by all accounts one of the better ones in the league who is still young enough to contribute for a few years? Guys, Fuller was a third round pick. We gave up a 2nd and a 3rd for McNabb alone. We gave up 2 1sts and a 2nd for the privilege of drafting RG3 in the first. This is NOTHING in terms of 'Skins sacrificing draft picks this decade, let alone all time. Just calm down a little.

[Warhead36]

Yep. Loser franchise defines us perfectly. We have no clue how to build a team. We don't operate with a plan in mind or any sort of structure. Its just moves to fill holes. Moves to try to stay relevant. We lack the ability to critically think or have any sort of vision.

 

We are, without a doubt, the WORST run organization in sports. There is absolutely zero question about that at this point.

[The Batman]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yep. Loser franchise defines us perfectly. We have no clue how to build a team. We don't operate with a plan in mind or any sort of structure. Its just moves to fill holes. Moves to try to stay relevant. We lack the ability to critically think or have any sort of vision.

 

We are, without a doubt, the WORST run organization in sports. There is absolutely zero question about that at this point.

 

I've loved your posts for a long time, a decade or more, but that last sentence is hyperbole on another level. We aren't run worse than the Browns in our own league, let alone teams in other sports. We're just not run well.

[Taylorcooley1]

8 minutes ago, The Batman said:

 

I may have not followed this closely enough, but do we actually have proof that he was not offered this price and would have taken it if he did? I know our FO is a bunch of idiots but it is very easy after the fact for his camp to cry foul about the offers they weren't made. Also, much as I wanted him to work out, Scot was the one running the ship then.

 

I just don't know what to tell you. THIS is what makes you jump ship? THIS? Not RG3, not Zorn, not McNabb, not a million other ill-advised and future mortgaging moves, but THIS? Trading a third and a good young CB who had one great year for a QB that is by all accounts one of the better ones in the league who is still young enough to contribute for a few years? Guys, Fuller was a third round pick. We gave up a 2nd and a 3rd for McNabb alone. We gave up 2 1sts and a 2nd for the privilege of drafting RG3 in the first. This is NOTHING in terms of 'Skins sacrificing draft picks this decade, let alone all time. Just calm down a little.

How in the hell do I read your post and stay calm making me reminisce of the **** we've been through for the last several years, I did not say that this most recent..**** up.. has made me jump ship... I've jumped ship a long time ago and am unfortunately snagged by the bow of the boat...held under water..unable to breathe..

[The Batman]

1 minute ago, Taylorcooley1 said:

How in the hell do I read your post and stay calm making me reminisce of the **** we've been through for the last several years, I did not say that this most recent..**** up.. has made me jump ship... I've jumped ship a long time ago and am unfortunately snagged by the bow of the boat...held under water..unable to breathe..

 

There have been reports that 5 teams were interested in Smith and the asking price was a 2nd. We got him for basically two 3rds. We didn't get ripped off, we got a guy who can still contribute and play at a high level, and we closed the door on a saga that has distracted the entire team for years. We still have almost our full complement of draft picks, and they actually bungled their way to a pretty good draft last year. If we suck next year or the year after, okay, we will have to do something different, but swapping Smith for Cousins doesn't change that. Signing Cousins to a long term deal didn't make us magically SB contenders. He's been here the whole time and we haven't been and still wouldn't be, even less so if he was taking up a huge cap chunk. This just doesn't change much either way.

[Taylorcooley1]

1 minute ago, Taylorcooley1 said:

How in the hell do I read your post and stay calm making me reminisce of the **** we've been through for the last several years, I did not say that this most recent..**** up.. has made me jump ship... I've jumped ship a long time ago and am unfortunately snagged by the bow of the boat...held under water..unable to breathe..

And it's ok cuz fuller only had one good year?..he was one hell of a slot corner for us last year..something we have been lacking for a long time... like many others have said here that I completely agree with I would have been happier sending Norman then Fuller.

[Warhead36]

7 minutes ago, The Batman said:

 

I've loved your posts for a long time, a decade or more, but that last sentence is hyperbole on another level. We aren't run worse than the Browns in our own league, let alone teams in other sports. We're just not run well.

The Browns might have been, but they just completely revamped their FO with real smart football people. They've got tons of cap room, good young talent, and premium draft picks to work with. They didn't get suckered into overpaying for Alex Smith.

 

What teams in other sports are run worse? I mean there are some bad teams sure, but I don't think they're as flat out incompetent and downright stupid as ours. The Clippers in the NBA might have been, but not anymore with Jerry West running things. Maybe the NY Knicks but they got rid of Phil Jackson and have some nice young talent to build around like Porzingis. No NHL team really strikes me as being terribly run(an NHL guru can correct me). MLB has such huge competitive disadvantages that its hard to point to one team being terribly run. Maybe the Marlins but they just got a new ownership group so they get a little benefit of the doubt. Maybe argue the Orioles but they actually fielded some competitive teams in recent years and even made an ALCS.

[Wildbunny]

28 minutes ago, pjfootballer said:

Again, I’m not mad about the trade. I understand it. A third for Smith would’ve been ok with me. Throwing in Fuller was stupid. I would have rather thrown in a future pick to be determined based on Smith’s performance along with the third.

 

And to address the “FO was trying to make the best of a bad situation” in that long post above @The Batman- It was the damn FO that created that bad situation in the first place by not wrapping Cousins up two years ago at a manageable price. The price we’re now paying Smith.

They threw in Fuller because they didn't want to send a 2nd and only earn a 3rd in return for Kirk (which have yet to be awarded).

Which doubled stupidity here.

 

Basically our FO didn't want to get into a bidding war for Cousins, but we decided to win one for Smith?

 

I can hardly get it...

[Taylorcooley1]

1 minute ago, The Batman said:

 

There have been reports that 5 teams were interested in Smith and the asking price was a 2nd. We got him for basically two 3rds. We didn't get ripped off, we got a guy who can still contribute and play at a high level, and we closed the door on a saga that has distracted the entire team for years. We still have almost our full complement of draft picks, and they actually bungled their way to a pretty good draft last year. If we suck next year or the year after, okay, we will have to do something different, but swapping Smith for Cousins doesn't change that. Signing Cousins to a long term deal didn't make us magically SB contenders. He's been here the whole time and we haven't been and still wouldn't be, even less so if he was taking up a huge cap chunk. This just doesn't change much either way.

Jesus h gods Kirk should have been locked down in 2013..and all the franchise has done is puked all over them selves... look... My family my job and the Redskins are all I have in my life..letting go of being a skins fan is impossible..I'll have direct TV and the NFL ticket and pumped ready to go jazzed come week one..but the more and more of this **** is forcing me to put my time and effort towards other things and I hate that... I have a question for everyone do you enjoy / prefer to see the Redskins get operated like the way they do or would you be better off being a fan of the stagnant Bengals? You know same thing year in your out regardless of production. But they have consistency. Outside of a few key players Trent Williams Ryan Kerrigan Jordan Reed we can never have anything nice around here which makes me think of Brandon scherff... So the Redskins can sign him to a long-term contract correct? Giving him no choice but to have to play for the Redskins... But will he be miserable threw that contract like I'm sure many of other Redskins players are.

[LightningBuggs]

15 minutes ago, The Batman said:

 

I've loved your posts for a long time, a decade or more, but that last sentence is hyperbole on another level. We aren't run worse than the Browns in our own league, let alone teams in other sports. We're just not run well.

 

Imagine this for a second.

 

The Browns ink Cousins (they have the most cap space available)

They use #1 pick on Barkley from Penn State

Use #4 on top defensive player (Chubb?)

They still have 3 more picks in the top 35.

 

They have better WR's than Kirk had here.  A good young OL.  Some young talent on defense.

 

Let's face it.  One strong offseason and the Browns could easily go flying past this Redskin organization.

[The Batman]

 

39 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The Browns might have been, but they just completely revamped their FO with real smart football people. They've got tons of cap room, good young talent, and premium draft picks to work with. They didn't get suckered into overpaying for Alex Smith.

 

What teams in other sports are run worse? I mean there are some bad teams sure, but I don't think they're as flat out incompetent and downright stupid as ours. The Clippers in the NBA might have been, but not anymore with Jerry West running things. Maybe the NY Knicks but they got rid of Phil Jackson and have some nice young talent to build around like Porzingis. No NHL team really strikes me as being terribly run(an NHL guru can correct me). MLB has such huge competitive disadvantages that its hard to point to one team being terribly run. Maybe the Marlins but they just got a new ownership group so they get a little benefit of the doubt. Maybe argue the Orioles but they actually fielded some competitive teams in recent years and even made an ALCS.

 

They've put "real smart football people" into their FO before. Multiple personnel guys who were respected other places came there and crashed and burned under Haslam. If you have any doubt that Haslam is a worse owner than Snyder, ask Tennessee fans about Greg Schiano, and he doesn't even own that team. They drafted Manziel and Weeden with firsts, as well as Trent Richardson and Barkevious Mingo. Premium picks mean nothing if you're the Browns, and this season they set a record only achieved once previously for futility, after scoring 1 win the year prior, and kept that coach. We have fielded some "competitive" teams too. We were one game out of the playoffs the last 2 years and made it the year before that. It's just silly to think we're the WORST RUN IN ALL OF SPORTS when we're just actually pretty mediocre. It sucks as a fan, but realistically we aren't. Not by any metric that makes sense.

 

Fun fact: one of those ostensibly fake dumb soccer lizard people that the Browns had in their FO before this house cleaning was former ES superstar Morocco Brown, in the role of VP of player personnel. I have fond memories of a time when we were told that not hiring him sealed our fate and that he would go on to some other lucky team and GM their way to multiple Super Bowls. The more you know.

 

30 minutes ago, LightningBuggs said:

 

Imagine this for a second.

 

The Browns ink Cousins (they have the most cap space available)

They use #1 pick on Barkley from Penn State

Use #4 on top defensive player (Chubb?)

They still have 3 more picks in the top 35.

 

They have better WR's than Kirk had here.  A good young OL.  Some young talent on defense.

 

Let's face it.  One strong offseason and the Browns could easily go flying past this Redskin organization.

And they've still won one game in two years. One game. Imagine a scenario where the Browns use the #3 pick on a stud RB and their other first on a highly touted QB. They did that already, and they both sucked. And the part I bolded is literally insane. Completely insane. Please, please tell me that's just off the cuff and you weren't thinking.

[pjfootballer]

18 minutes ago, The Batman said:

 

I may have not followed this closely enough, but do we actually have proof that he was not offered this price and would have taken it if he did? I know our FO is a bunch of idiots but it is very easy after the fact for his camp to cry foul about the offers they weren't made. Also, much as I wanted him to work out, Scot was the one running the ship then.

 

 

I can't say concretely what was offered and what he countered.  I don't think anyone truly knows but the FO and his agent.  But I think we can all agree that it would be significantly lower then what he will be paid now.

 

I'm not a Kirk fanboy.  I think he's been the best QB we've had in a while, but by no means do I think he was the savior.  Again, I understand why they made the trade.  I'm OK with Alex as I think he's comparable to Kirk, but I think his age, the timing and giving up Fuller is what irks me. 

 

I know that as of now, there was zero chance we'd re-sign Kirk, so I understand the move. I'd rather have Alex, then Colt McCoy.  I think my main point about my post was, don't give the FO any kudos for making the best of a bad situation, when they had 3 years (including Scot) to not get to this point.  They are digging themselves out of their own hole.

[The Batman]

1 minute ago, pjfootballer said:

 

I can't say concretely what was offered and what he countered.  I don't think anyone truly knows but the FO and his agent.  But I think we can all agree that it would be significantly lower then what he will be paid now.

 

I'm not a Kirk fanboy.  I think he's been the best QB we've had in a while, but by no means do I think he was the savior.  Again, I understand why they made the trade.  I'm OK with Alex as I think he's comparable to Kirk, but I think his age, the timing and giving up Fuller is what irks me. 

 

I know that as of now, there was zero chance we'd re-sign Kirk, so I understand the move. I'd rather have Alex, then Colt McCoy.  I think my main point about my post was, don't give the FO any kudos for making the best of a bad situation, when they had 3 years (including Scot) to not get to this point.  They are digging themselves out of their own hole.

 

I agree completely, and I'm not trying to give them credit at all. Just saying that this may be the best we could have hoped for given the circumstances (that admittedly they contributed to, but not alone), or at least something like it.