zoony Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 The Browns have had the courage to defer a total rebuild to one draft. Something several of us have been begging for for years and years on this forum. (Instead of a first round pick in 2009, 2010, 2011.... go for 3 first round picks in 2012 and an additional 3 2nd round picks that you got in a trade., e.g.) 1. The Browns have 12 picks in this years draft. 5 in the first 2 rounds. 1 and 4, overall 2. The Browns hired a non football guy to run their operations. In this case, Paul DePodesta who you all know from Jonah Hills character in Moneyball 3. The Browns invested in the best GM they could find in John Dorsey, who in turn is investing in more front office talent, poaching Alonzo Highsmith from the Packers 4. Projected $118 million in cap space The Browns have the best upcoming draft position in the history of the league, the most talented front office in the league, and a non football ivy league economist running the show and looking for value in systems that by and large are being built by aging ex jocks and assorted dumbos. He wont have a hard time, especially with $118 million in cap space What a time to be a Browns fan. I would take 1-31 in a second to be where they are. After all, they have as much to show for it as we do. This is what the Redskins have needed since 2006. Two straight years of SUCK with a front office smart enough to leverage that suckage into future value. Instead, we are on the perpetual 7-9 merry go round, always with limited cap space, always putting another band aid on the terminal patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, zoony said: This is what the Redskins have needed since 2006. I agree with this thought completely. I'm actually curious to hear you elaborate on this though...why only since 2006? What was your basis for choosing that year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, TD_washingtonredskins said: I agree with this thought completely. I'm actually curious to hear you elaborate on this though...why only since 2006? What was your basis for choosing that year? Eh, i really meant the end of gibbs ii. What year was that? Maybe it was 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 The sad thing in retrospect is we did have the 2nd pick in the draft in 2014 but it was lost to the Rams in the RG3 deal. But yeah the difference between having the first pick in the draft or even 2nd pick versus anything below that is typically huge -- especially when it comes to finding a franchise QB. Take this year. I want Kirk back. But if they had the first or 2nd pick -- I wouldn't be crying since they had a shot at Darnold or Rosen. And I am not a fan of trading a kings ransom to trade up for a QB because its screws up your future and that goes double if the QB you traded up for fails. But yeah Dan doesn't seem to have the stomach for a complete crash. I am not even a little on board with letting Kirk go. But there is nothing I'd hate more than doing that and also having some bandaid approach to the position that would keep the team afloat but on a ship to nowhere. If Kirk goes -- I think crash. Start over. People talk about building up other units, etc. But we aren't the Vikings. We aren't one or two good draft picks from having an elite defense. We are bad everywhere at the moment. We can't stop the run. We can't run the ball. Receivers are so so. The special team stinks. I think you can add to the roster (for example if the defense gets healthy and you add to it, I think it could be average) and be competitive with Kirk because at least you got a passing game. But if you take the strength off of the roster -- then this is a bad team IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 We are talking about a battle of wits between Depodesta and types like Bruce/Dan. There are really only a handful of smart front offices in the league, im convinced of that. Year in and year out its the same ****. 28 dumbasses trying to figure out why the other 4 have won fairly consistently since 1996. We all know which camp Dans in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 You think they want to trade Kizer for Cousins? Then trade 1st to someone and grab a few more picks to draft a WR and a RB in the first round? Yeah, that could be real smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 Depodestas quote from an interview with peter king “We’ve looked ourselves in the mirror and said, ‘Do we think that we are actually superhuman when it comes to picking players?’ And we pretty easily answered that with a resounding no. So how are we going to increase our chances? We need to have more picks. So, if we have the same number of picks every year as everyone else, we don’t expect do better than anyone else.” 5 minutes ago, Wildbunny said: You think they want to trade Kizer for Cousins? Then trade 1st to someone and grab a few more picks to draft a WR and a RB in the first round? Yeah, that could be real smart Why trade for cousins when you have 118 million in cap space? Just sign him and use your first two picks on awesome skill players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Not a chance I am envious of the Browns today. Having high picks and cap space does not always mean they will pick the right players. And they have so far to go even if they hit on all these picks, which simply will not happen, it won't be nearly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 19 minutes ago, zoony said: Eh, i really meant the end of gibbs ii. What year was that? Maybe it was 2008 Oh man...I thought you had some very cool, in-depth research on what made that year special. Anyway, I still agree with your concept completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 And the Packers personnel guy they stole is the same one McCloughan tried to poach. The Packers denied him. But they are going through an organizational shakeup now as they are doing something rare and switching GMs, and the Browns pounced. Everything is lining up for the Browns and they're making smart moves. Dorsey was a smart talent evaluator but an enormous asshole in KC, so what did they do? They didn't make him the top executive, he's just a talent guy. If we still had McCloughan we'd be the ones gaining the Packers personnel guys in the fallout of their FO restructuring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said: Not a chance I am envious of the Browns today. Having high picks and cap space does not always mean they will pick the right players. And they have so far to go even if they hit on all these picks, which simply will not happen, it won't be nearly enough. You are correct that they wont pick the right players. They know it, as does every intelligent front office in the league. Its built into their strategy As for your 3rd sentence i disagree. Especially when they sign cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbias Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 The Browns, for as long as I can remember, have always had cap space and high draft picks. How has that worked out for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, Unbias said: The Browns, for as long as I can remember, have always had cap space and high draft picks. How has that worked out for them? Youre right of course. Please negate entire thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Other than that 1 year under Romeo Crennel it has been top 10 draft picks all the way in Cleveland. How many first round draft picks have they spent on finding their franchise guy? Don Banks wrote a fantastic article on this a couple of weeks back and reading the comments of the Cleveland fans in that story was a pretty good reminder that things could be a whole lot worse for us. No amount of draft picks or cap money guarantees success but there is a real old saying about winning and losing being habits that are hard to break. Cleveland should have won about half a dozen games this season but found increasingly ridiculous ways to lose, I can't help thinking that is because it is ingrained in the football culture there now that bad things will happen and they will not win. So no, I don't want to suck, go 0-16, blow it up or any other variation thereof because it pretty much never works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 It's Cleveland. They'd accidentally draft Brandon Weeden and Trent Richardson again if they could. They couldn't even trade for the Bengals backup QB because they were too inept. I'm sorry, but not for us. I'm sorry for Cleveland because I have little doubt that they'll find a way to screw it up worse than we could. Our worst draft mistake in years netted us a playoff birth. Until Cleveland matches that, they are going to remain the "at least we're not them" team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 You guys seem to be missing the important part where they got a real GM to use these picks and cap space--one who now has a very talented sidekick (the only personnel guy McCloughan attempted to poach, as far as we know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 hour ago, zoony said: The Browns have had the courage to defer a total rebuild to one draft. Something several of us have been begging for for years and years on this forum. (Instead of a first round pick in 2009, 2010, 2011.... go for 3 first round picks in 2012 and an additional 3 2nd round picks that you got in a trade., e.g.) 1. The Browns have 12 picks in this years draft. 5 in the first 2 rounds. 1 and 4, overall 2. The Browns hired a non football guy to run their operations. In this case, Paul DePodesta who you all know from Jonah Hills character in Moneyball 3. The Browns invested in the best GM they could find in John Dorsey, who in turn is investing in more front office talent, poaching Alonzo Highsmith from the Packers 4. Projected $118 million in cap space The Browns have the best upcoming draft position in the history of the league, the most talented front office in the league, and a non football ivy league economist running the show and looking for value in systems that by and large are being built by aging ex jocks and assorted dumbos. He wont have a hard time, especially with $118 million in cap space What a time to be a Browns fan. I would take 1-31 in a second to be where they are. After all, they have as much to show for it as we do. This is what the Redskins have needed since 2006. Two straight years of SUCK with a front office smart enough to leverage that suckage into future value. Instead, we are on the perpetual 7-9 merry go round, always with limited cap space, always putting another band aid on the terminal patient. Skins had 2-3 in a draft once, that's about as good as 1-4. The Brown track record in QBs should lead any of them with a brain to pull an Elway or Eli Manning. Their is no reason to have any faith that the Browns will accomplsh anything special with what they're trying 43 minutes ago, zoony said: You are correct that they wont pick the right players. They know it, as does every intelligent front office in the league. Its built into their strategy As for your 3rd sentence i disagree. Especially when they sign cousins. If Cousins signs with them then everything I've ever thought about his head being on wrong is right. Anyway Terelle Pryor apparently wants to sign back with them and he seems wanted as the tried to trade for him, and I doubt he'll have much good to say about Kirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Picks and cap room are nice but it is still a lottery. Everybody loved Jamarcus Russell and everybody left Brady on the shelf until the 6th round, plenty of real GMs made those decisions too. I am pretty sure the Browns would trade us Haslam for Snyder is a heartbeat and for as long as crooked Jimmah is running the show and insisting Dorsey keep his pet coach with the shiny 1-31 record the Browns will suck big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 One of the biggest intellectual follies of all time is using past performance as an indicator of future results. Its pretty much the cause of every stock market amd housing crash in US history. But I digress, the point here is that PD joined in 2016 and JD and AS in 2017/18. Ignore what the Browns are doing all you want. Like I said, keep laughing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Bold prediction, the 2018 Browns become the first team to achieve back to back 0-16 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I remember riding on the "Suck for Luck" train and getting lambasted because I had the audacity to want the team to better themselves with a surefire QB. Spare me with the injury argument because that's on the Colts for ignoring the OL and getting Luck killed. So yeah, once again we are on the perpetual "merry go round" of mediocrity not only on the field, but draft day. I'm at the point now that if Cousins is allowed to walk so be it. The Anti-Christ owns the team and he's at the control of this "merry go round." We're ****ed no matter what as long as that POS owns the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 The AFC is getting weaker and if the Brown find a QB with those weapons they have at WR and the already solid D they put in place they could be next years worst to first. I wouldn't put my paycheck on it but I wouldn't have thought Jacksonville and the Rams would be division winners either, but it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 hour ago, zoony said: One of the biggest intellectual follies of all time is using past performance as an indicator of future results. Its pretty much the cause of every stock market amd housing crash in US history. The economic lesson from the various bubbles and crashes is this: "Things that can't go on forever, don't." However, the Browns are quite capable of sucking forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylorcooley1 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Bllaahh ...good lord...oh. wait that's the stench of a pile of poo poo that wasn't cleaned up..for a sec I thot it was this thread...when will it end..I'll give you any coaching staff ya want ..and any qb ya want..on top of that I'll give ya three picks in the first round....two of them in the bottom 8...two in the second and four in the third and guess what...WE STILL WONT WIN..ugghh until owner ship changes .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Watching the Browns right now, along with how the Giants have already approached their hirings, has me outrageously jealous. Will it work out for either of them? Who knows. But it won't be because of the process. They're doing it right with regards to their respective FOs. And that's where @zoony is absolutely spot on. It just boggles my mind how something seemingly so simple, so obvious, is just damn near impossible to do for Dan. 18 years into his tenure as Owner. 18 friggin years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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