The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[RWJ]

16 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Shanny on the radio touting Kyle Smith big time.  But said you have to let him do his thing and get out of the way.  He made it clear as heck that he wonders if they would get out of his way.  He also likes Schaffer in the FO for the role he performs.

 

He said Kyle was with him for 2 years and was blown away.   He works his tail off.  He thinks he's special at what he does.

That why Kyle should replace Allen.  Does Snyder have the guts to do the right thing.  Schaffer staying is a must too.

[RWJ]

18 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sheehan said he has this conclusion talking to some people at the FO.

 

A.  Dan-Bruce were convinced that this season they'd prove the world wrong.  They weren't shaken by the decline of fan attendance last year but seem shaken this year some.

 

B.  There is still some arrogance in that building, Bruce being chesty after the last two wins.  I couldn't tell if he was guessing on this point or was just speculating, 

 

C.  If they beat GB it likely saves Bruce's job.  They'd go nuts to win three in a row and the third would be a win in GB. 

 

D.  Losing in GB conversely might seal Bruce's fate.  

 

E. Playing off of point D.  There could be an announcement about Bruce as soon as the upcoming league meetings in Texas.

 

Packers win, Eagles win, Giants up in the air and Dallas wins IF they are playing ALL their starters.

[Koala]

I just can't stomach this team with Bruce Allen.  I dont like who he is as a person.  Dan Snyder I dont mind that much, nerdy billionaire doesnt rub me wrong like that snake of person Bruce Allen. 

 

I can't root for this team with him as a part of it.  I think a lot of fans are like me.  From pimping out our cheerleaders to the unnecessary leak of Jays DIP video -- the guy has done too many nauseating things   We just dont like the guy, hes an asshole, and its impossible to root for an asshole unless youre an asshole too. 

 

I really dunno how much simpler it can be made to Snyder.  I think part of him gets that, which is why they hired the more likeable Doug Williams.  But this is a case of addition by subtraction.  Snyder just needs to work up the courage to tear off the bandaid -- get rid of the slime ball so we can all move forward.

[FrFan]

Don't Get Too Excited If Bruce Allen Gets Fired

We'll keep on winning most of our remaining games. He'll come to the podium thumping his chest telling us Callahan has signed a 5 years contract, and how close we are with our damn good culture.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, FrFan said:

Don't Get Too Excited If Bruce Allen Gets Fired

We'll keep on winning most of our remaining games. He'll come to the podium thumping his chest telling us Callahan has signed a 5 years contract, and how close we are with our damn good culture.

 

I get the point of the article but some of the points are off in it IMO.  Cerrato and Bruce have in common the drinking buddy part and the incompetent owner above them, that's true.  Dan is the biggest problem by a mile.  That's true, too. 

 

And I go to battle with some on this point...Dan hiring buffoons in my world is a much worse condemnation to Dan than saying he has hired good people and just ruins them.  I don't believe either Vinny or Bruce were good hires that would thrive elsewhere.  Vinny hasn't touched a job since.  And I'd put money that once he leaves here, anyone of us here would have a better shot getting a GM job than Bruce.

 

 Bruce's style of dysfunction and Vinny's were very different:

 

Vinny-Dan weren't equally nontransparent as Bruce-Dan as the article purports.  Vinny even did a radio show for awhile, taking calls from fans directly.  Can you imagine Bruce doing that?  Vinny also had Dan coming out of the cave at least once in awhile, doing annual predraft pressers among other things.  Night and day as for the transparency issue.  And I think Bruce has oddly done even more to damage Dan with the fans for that reason.

 

Vinny was likable, splashy, some sleaze, incompetent and the team came off that way.  Bruce on the other hand: unlikeable, political, boring, mega sleaze, incompetent.

 

Both disasters but totally different flavors of it IMO.  Bruce to me has done more to damage the brand.  Boring and mega sleazy doesn't sell the same as splashy and sleazy.  One way leads to anger and frustration the other to indifference and fans checking out. 

 

I made this point on another thread but I think part of the reason why the NY Giants aren't bleeding fans the way the Redskins are is even though though they lose, they got stars, they are at least a little interesting nationally.  Bruce avoids stars like the plague.  Also Bruce's overtly political style and condescending tone in his rare public appearances coupled with his dumb malapropisms have made the Redskins much more unlikeable and hopeless feeling than they were under Vinny.  

 

I used to say Bruce was slightly better than Vinny.  I've changed my mind.  The record is better under Vinny.  Dan for his many faults at least seemed a little checked in.  Most importantly, they weren't as unlikable as they are now. I get why Vinny beat Bruce as the better GM in a radio poll.

 

If you get rid of Bruce, and Dan hires another figure head type as opposed to a top personnel type to run the team, fans I think will check out some more. I think the difference as to Dan between then versus now is that fans are fed up and are wise to the game.  It won't be just about removing Bruce but what he does next.

 

The issue to me as to Bruce right now in the context of Dan is how important is it to him to maintain his best friend?  How much money is he willing to lose?  It's like watching a captain veering straight into the Titanic with a wide smile on their face and wondering why is he given a hard time about it.  The fascination to me is how much is he willing to push things with the fans?  In the past he would cave eventually but thus far he seems unwilling to do it.  It's wild to watch.  So for me I am interested in watching what happens with Bruce for this reason.  How far is Dan willing to go, how much is he willing to lose?  I hear Bruce is charming one on one.  I had my own small exposure to Bruce on that front a couple of times.  But is he that charming?

 

In the 2 small conversations, the best I can explain it is he's very outgoing and effusive.   Makes you feel like he's your friend even though he doesn't know you.  It's not hard to deduce from that experience that he makes Dan feel really good about himself.    I don't personally think Bruce is a bad guy.  I just think that's the absolute wrong profile to run personnel.  In short, you want a politician doing political type of activities not running a football operation. 

[London Kev]

I keep wondering why Bruce finally sold his home in Virginia.

 

Did he need the money? I don't know, but he's gotta be on something like five to ten million a year, right? That amount of wedge buys you a **** load of Coors light.

He had already bought a new place in California for seven million, so he didn't need the money for that.  But after trying to sell the old place a few times, he finally dropped the price and took a loss on it, so he really wanted it gone and if it wasn't because he needed the cash, then what?

 

I don't think that Dan wants to fire his BFF, so my spidey sense tells me that Bruce is going to retire at the end of the season, either voluntary or forced.

 

With the sale of his home already out of the way, he can quietly ride off into the sunset and move on to his Newport Beach retirement home.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, London Kev said:

I keep wondering why Bruce finally sold his home in Virginia.

 

Did he need the money? I don't know, but he's gotta be on something like five to ten million a year, right? That amount of wedge buys you a **** load of Coors light.

He had already bought a new place in California for seven million, so he didn't need the money for that.  But after trying to sell the old place a few times, he finally dropped the price and took a loss on it, so he really wanted it gone and if it wasn't because he needed the cash, then what?

 

I don't think that Dan wants to fire his BFF, so my spidey sense tells me that Bruce is going to retire at the end of the season, either voluntary or forced.

 

With the sale of his home already out of the way, he can quietly ride off into the sunset and move on to his Newport Beach retirement home.

 

It's Chris Russell's theory that zero chance Dan fires Bruce but Bruce retires.  He goes about how fans won't get the red meat firing they want, etc.  

 

I can't speak for everyone else here obviously.  But for me I can care less how Bruce leaves.  Dan can rename Redskins Park -- Bruce Allen Park for all I care and run a heroes salute to Bruce as he departs for all I care.  I just need him gone and a real personnel guy in place.

 

And yes we'd still be stuck with Dan and heck I don't rule out at all that he screws up the next hire and keeps screwing up the organization -- it's probably even likely.  But I'd at least give it a shot. 

[London Kev]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's Chris Russell's theory that zero chance Dan fires Bruce but Bruce retires.  He goes about how fans won't get the red meat firing they want, etc.  

 

I can't speak for everyone else here obviously.  But for me I can care less how Bruce leaves.  Dan can rename Redskins Park -- Bruce Allen Park for all I care and run a heroes salute to Bruce as he departs for all I care.  I just need him gone and a real personnel guy in place.

 

And yes we'd still be stuck with Dan and heck I don't rule out at all that he screws up the next hire and keeps screwing up the organization -- it's probably even likely.  But I'd at least give it a shot. 

 

I'm with you on this, SIP. I'd even organise sending him a group card from ES to celebrate Bruce Allen Day.

 

I was probably just talking out of my **** with the selling the home thing, but every now and then a conspiracy theory turns out to be right, so you never know. We can but hope.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

7 hours ago, RWJ said:

That why Kyle should replace Allen.  Does Snyder have the guts to do the right thing.  Schaffer staying is a must too.

 

It won't happen. Why? Because it was the Evil Mike Shanahan who said it, that's why. Bruce convinced Dan years ago that the team was THISCLOSE and it was all Shanahan's fault that the team regressed in 2013. Bruce will not tolerate anyone being moved into a position that challenges his power, least of all one recommended by a former coach that he convinced Dan to fire in a power struggle in the first place.

 

Cerrato was an incompetent fool, but at least he wasn't a bad person. Bruce is incompetent and is a horrible person to boot.

 

But the main problem here is still the owner, who seems more interested in having a #2 who is a boot-licking yes-man and drinking buddy than he is in hiring someone who is competent and lets them do their job.

 

If Bruce is gone, Dan will just hire another boot-licker. Wonder what Pepper Rodgers is doing these days...

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

 

It won't happen. Why? Because it was the Evil Mike Shanahan who said it, that's why. Bruce convinced Dan years ago that the team was THISCLOSE and it was all Shanahan's fault that the team regressed in 2013. Bruce will not tolerate anyone being moved into a position that challenges his power, least of all one recommended by a former coach that he convinced Dan to fire in a power struggle in the first place.

 

 

It's a good point.  I didn't think of that angle.  But yeah Shanny pimping Kyle for the job might have been the kiss of death.  Hopefully they weren't listening to 980 that day. 

[Thinking Skins]

2 hours ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

 

It won't happen. Why? Because it was the Evil Mike Shanahan who said it, that's why. Bruce convinced Dan years ago that the team was THISCLOSE and it was all Shanahan's fault that the team regressed in 2013. Bruce will not tolerate anyone being moved into a position that challenges his power, least of all one recommended by a former coach that he convinced Dan to fire in a power struggle in the first place.

 

Cerrato was an incompetent fool, but at least he wasn't a bad person. Bruce is incompetent and is a horrible person to boot.

 

But the main problem here is still the owner, who seems more interested in having a #2 who is a boot-licking yes-man and drinking buddy than he is in hiring someone who is competent and lets them do their job.

 

If Bruce is gone, Dan will just hire another boot-licker. Wonder what Pepper Rodgers is doing these days...

 

I think the problem with Sndyer isn't the boot-lickers, its the incompetent boot-lickers. We have a small sample size, but I'm forced to believe that someone can exist who can please Snyder and the fans at the same time. Is that guy Doug Williams? Eric Schaffer? Kyle Smith? 

 

Before Bruce's slimy nature came out (and boy did I defend him) I thought we had found such a person because I was liking our drafts after Shanahan. They went from horrible under Vinny to probably D+ level under Shanahan, to probably C in the post-Shanny, to probably a D+ again in the Scot era, to probably a B in the post Scot era. So I'm not totally against Bruce in the front office from a performance standpoint. But when you add up the things like Trent, Kirk, Scot, maybe Sua, the mistakes at HIS HOMECOMING GAME, the leaks, etc, it just becomes a thing where you've got to say enough. 

 

Previously I questioned people who work under him and said "how". But I really question people above him because I think thats more telling. Maybe people like Doug, Kyle or Eric say to themselves that they've got a good gig right now and as talented as they are they're not sure that they'd get another gig like this if they up and left (look at the guys who did leave and how long they lasted in their new positions). But Dan is above Bruce and sees (he has to see it right) all the stuff that Bruce is doing. He probably gets an explanation from Bruce about why its "us against them" but is he really that incompetent? Even if Snyder believed him for the first few things, we know there will be a final straw because we saw that with Vinny. With either the Zorn hiring or the Haynesworth signing, finally Snyder said enough. 

 

Here's to that happening with Bruce sooner than later. 

[Thinking Skins]

https://hbr.org/2019/04/whos-the-most-important-member-of-an-nfl-franchise

 

This is a nice article questioning the most important person in an NFL Franchise. They come to a conclusion but I question their methods because their answer is the field with the least variance. But, especially with this team its an important question, namely can this team be successful with Dan Snyder as owner or with Bruce Allen as GM? We're seeing Dallas, SF and Indy somewhat successful with meddlesome / crazy owners. Does that mean anything about us? I don't know. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

https://hbr.org/2019/04/whos-the-most-important-member-of-an-nfl-franchise

 

This is a nice article questioning the most important person in an NFL Franchise. They come to a conclusion but I question their methods because their answer is the field with the least variance. But, especially with this team its an important question, namely can this team be successful with Dan Snyder as owner or with Bruce Allen as GM? We're seeing Dallas, SF and Indy somewhat successful with meddlesome / crazy owners. Does that mean anything about us? I don't know. 

 

It's a good article.  It backs what I think I and @wit33 have said the most on this thread that in order to override FO dysfunction you need a great QB.  As big of a critic I am of Dan-Bruce, I do think an Aaron Rodgers type can override him.

 

The one problem though is what if the owner is constantly involved in choosing the Qb and let's say he's not that hot at it?  Then the QB and owner variables interlock some.  But like I said, Dan has to get lucky eventually, I'd hope?

 

 

https://hbr.org/2019/04/whos-the-most-important-member-of-an-nfl-franchise

The Results

For our analysis, we created a 38-year panel data set that included the win-loss record of each team in each season. (See our methodology section toward the end of the article for more.) Over the course of our sample, combined leadership explained a remarkably high proportion of the success or failure of each team. In total, our four leader variables—quarterback, coach, general manager, and owner—explained 68.2%, or more than two-thirds, of the variance in team performance. It is interesting, if not totally surprising, to see how much influence just four individuals can have in organizations worth billions of dollars. Of that 68.2%, owners carried the least weight (roughly 11.12% of explained variance), followed by general managers (22.43%), then coaches (29.08%), and finally, quarterbacks (37.37%).

That means a quarterback accounts for more than three times the variance in performance that an owner does and appears to be the most critical factor in team success. However, coaches and general managers are still very important:  they represent more than half of our model’s explained variance.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

When asked Thursday if he thinks Allen will return for another season or if Redskins owner Daniel Snyder goes in a different direction, Clayton said, "I think he might go a different direction."

"I think right now there's such a clamoring for change. And of course, there's gonna be change obviously with the coaching staff and all that, because I'm pretty doubtful that Bill Callahan's gonna be able to get the job, (Snyder) is gonna want a bigger name and try and build some of the fanbase back," Clayton told 106.7 The Fan. "So if that's gonna be the case, yeah, I think there's a chance that could happen, but I don't think Dan wants to do it."

[ntotoro]

Mental note to Dan... a big name isn't gonna' win back the fanbase this time.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

28 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

Mental note to Dan... a big name isn't gonna' win back the fanbase this time.

 

Pepper Rodgers lives in Reston...just sayin'.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

..The NFI designation confirmed for Williams what he had been hearing since summer, when his holdout began during the team’s minicamp in June — that Allen was the one driving the team’s refusal to trade him. The team’s stance throughout Williams’ holdout was to fine him for his absence and withhold his salary — as allowed under the collective bargaining agreement between the league and the players’ union — in the hope that the lost income would eventually drive him back.

Bruce Allen could be under the microscope as Daniel Snyder evaluates the Redskins this offseason

Williams is sure Allen didn’t want him to return this fall so the team could claim he had two years left on his contract and potentially get more value in an offseason trade. He says Allen ignored calls and messages from his agent in the days and hours before the trade deadline, hoping to trick Williams into not reporting.

 

 

“He didn’t say anything because he wanted that 4 o’clock to pass by, because if I didn’t report by 4, of course, he could challenge to keep me for two years instead of one.”

Williams sighs.

“It just goes to show you how behind the times [Allen] is, and he still tries to use that money to hold it over black athletes,” Williams says.

 

...He stops and begins to think about the other players who have gone through the Redskins in his time since he was drafted in 2010, Allen’s first year as president. He sees in his mind so many talented players who came in through the draft and then left as management made business decisions. What about Kirk Cousins? he asks. Or Preston Smith, the pass rusher, who left as a free agent last year and has 10 and a half sacks this season for Green Bay?

 

Williams has been asking himself these questions a lot now that he has had time to think in broader terms about the only team for which he has played. He says he has started to realize the playoff runs he had been chasing all those years would always elude him, as the Redskins kept trying to jump-start winning only to stumble into more losing.

 

“There’s no shortcuts to the top,” he says. “It’s a long, grueling road, and right now I don’t even feel like the organization is on a road, it’s on a track that’s going in circles. You get to a point where you say: ‘All right, we’re about to break through,’ and in less than a year, you’re back to rebuilding.”

Then he says this about Allen, who has overseen the team during a 10-year span that includes a record of 62-93-1:

 

“I just don’t understand,” he says. “In any business world, when the employer has someone who is underperforming, he finds another one. I don’t know in the last 10 years if there is a worse record [for] someone who has held their job for 10 years and performed the way they performed and still have a job. I don’t know. That would be good to look up and [see] just who else is in that company. I would be thrilled to find out.”

Asked for a response, Allen said: “I’m much more concerned about the Green Bay Packers than that,” referencing the team’s upcoming opponent.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

Bravo, Trent! But you better be careful...your words could cause Bruce to not pay you.

 

Wait a sec, hold that thought.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Not that Michael Phillips is that plugged in but for what its worth he said there is no future HC for Callahan here that doesn't also include Bruce Allen.  He thinks this game is the be all and end all for both of their futures.   So that somewhat echoes Sheehan. 

 

[Wildbunny]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Not a big deal, Brucey thought those comments were comical.

 

Hopefully, Trent will have the last laugh.

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not that Michael Phillips is that plugged in but for what its worth he said there is no future HC for Callahan here that doesn't also include Bruce Allen.  He thinks this game is the be all and end all for both of their futures.   So that somewhat echoes Sheehan. 

 

I can already imagine ES posters preparing their best "Bye Felicia" meme if we lose in Green Bay.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not that Michael Phillips is that plugged in but for what its worth he said there is no future HC for Callahan here that doesn't also include Bruce Allen.  He thinks this game is the be all and end all for both of their futures.   So that somewhat echoes Sheehan. 

 

 

If that's true, and we somehow beat the Packers this weekend, we are 100%, undoubtedly, undeniably, unmistakably, unambiguously, unequivocally cursed.

[Springfield]

Sounds to me like Trent knows how to build this team up way better than Bruce Allen ever has.