skinsmania123 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I want to tank on one hand because my concern is because of the Bromance between Danny and Bruce, if the Skins put together say another three wins, Allen can pull the "see I told you we were close" with Dan and he gets a reprieve. On the other hand it is unbelievable that I am actively rooting against a team I have followed almost my whole life, supposedly for the greater good, and hopefully long term success. But my main struggling point which I have always had is this difficulty of extricating or extracting Dan from Bruce. I have always believed Dan has played a large role in the overall "key" decisions in this organization and in Bruce he has a found a guy who is happy to do his bidding. So who is the puppet here? It is like two independent toxic entities came together and created an absolutely abysmal environment and circumstances yet are seemingly insulated against any criticism because they are so aligned. And the worse part of all is that they believe they are right. That it is all bad luck due to a rash of injuries, poor coaching and when all else fails giving the impression of selfish players. When Bruce paraded out in public the day they released Gruden, and said what he said, it was just proof to me how they had insulated themselves, and were so aligned in their toxicity that they were impervious to any information coming in therefore operating from a position that says what we believe is the truth and we know better then anybody. Any of you. The only saving grace possible here is Dan's money being impacted. Dan likes his money and likes to display it - the yacht. It says, see public, see fans and detractors I am fine financially. Jealous of my success? I am really hoping he is a wealth addict who gets off on others envy of what he has because these types will throw family members under the bus, if it messes too much with their bottom line. This is what I am hoping for ultimately. But will it change his meddling in the organization, the draft, FA player acquisitions, etc. I just don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Following the narratives on the hires, Bruce's stamp certainly looks to be everywhere. Even on the defensive coordinator front, there was a narrative that Bruce-Dan don't like to eat dead money especially on assistants. And if anyone questions that, if Haz was all Jay then why was Haz retained when Shanny was fired (before Jay even arrived)? Manusky also was on staff already when he was hired. I'd assume that Jay was cool with the hires but there is little question in my mind that Bruce-Dan were more than on board with it. And as Michael Phillips likes to say Jay's longevity over there was in part because he was a go along to get along type of dude. 20 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said: But will it change his meddling in the organization, the draft, FA player acquisitions, etc. I just don't see it. Probably not. But I do think Bruce has at worst brought his own brand to the dysfunction and at best validates Dan that he's got it cooking right. Removing Bruce at the very least IMO would remove Dan's security blanket and make him much more naked with the fan base. 27 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: Is seems to me Allen and his cronies hire their cronies so they never actually challenge him? That's how it looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: Following the narratives on the hires, Bruce's stamp certainly looks to be everywhere. Even on the defensive coordinator front, there was a narrative that Bruce-Dan don't like to eat dead money especially on assistants. And if anyone questions that, if Haz was all Jay then why was Haz retained when Shanny was fired (before Jay even arrived)? Manusky also was on staff already when he was hired. I'd assume that Jay was cool with the hires but there is little question in my mind that Bruce-Dan were more than on board with it. And as Michael Phillips likes to say Jay's longevity over there was in part because he was a go along to get along type of dude. Probably not. But I do think Bruce has at worst brought his own brand to the dysfunction and at best validates Dan that he's got it cooking right. Removing Bruce at the very least IMO would remove Dan's security blanket and make him much more naked with the fan base. That's how it looks. Naked Danny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 On 12/1/2019 at 12:00 AM, wit33 said: believe Trent will remain elite for the entirety of another deal and next window of opportunity. Guess we found Bruce's account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, Tsailand said: Guess we found Bruce's account. Weak. You can do better. My entire statement involved Bruce being removed as the reason Trent could potentially return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, wit33 said: My entire statement involved Bruce being removed as the reason Trent could potentially return. Standig and Hoffman both said it's possible if Bruce leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 3 hours ago, wit33 said: Weak. You can do better. I refuse to participate in ES further if we are no longer allowed to accuse other posters of secretly being Dan/Bruce/Jay/etc. Trent should have been traded for value back in February. He is old, injury prone, and has very little left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Of course this is happening. Allen — the survivor, the virus that cannot be eradicated — is supposedly closer to being removed than at any time during his 10 years of feckless leadership in Washington. You should recall he has been to the brink before. And every time, he has recovered and come away with even greater power. It feels different now. Then again, it always feels different. But nothing happens, and the franchise sinks lower than previously imagined. So there are two ways to react to your favorite ne’er-do-well football team’s unexpected little winning streak: Express relief — or, God forbid, feel validation — that despite a 1-9 start, the Redskins’ situation isn’t as hopeless as the typical awful football team’s. Or use this flickering light as motivation to push harder for owner Daniel Snyder to make the necessary wholesale organizational changes to help this franchise reach its potential. AD The former reaction is the kind of thinking that would allow Allen to crawl past the line of fire and live to further ruin the Redskins’ brand. The latter? Well, even while celebrating Washington’s 29-21 victory over the Carolina Panthers on Sunday, there’s still room to demand that Snyder blow up the entire organization. Inside a jubilant visiting locker room at Bank of America Stadium, it felt bittersweet to watch the scene because the players deserve better. Washington has an odd collection of loose talent that, under the right circumstances, could form a decent team. It means that a fix could be quicker than the long processes the Miami Dolphins and Cincinnati Bengals are about to endure. But in Washington, there is no organizational commitment, no vision and definitely no creativity. For the past 20 years under Snyder’s ownership, this has been an unfinished product. And over the past 10 with Allen, the lack of trust and dearth of mission only have gotten worse. It dilutes every positive. ...Overall, Washington is still a mess. The way the franchise is currently set up, it is still unlikely to develop Haskins properly. And a couple of good defensive performances don’t erase the fact that, on the whole, the team has yet to show it can consistently play to the level of its investment on that side of the ball. Over the past two decades, the franchise has often tilted on the emotions of Snyder. If he’s upset, he destroys. But if he’s excited or hopeful, he has shown in recent years that he can overreact in the opposite manner and turn complacent when the situation calls for greater change. The owner is in evaluation mode, and the erosion of the fan base screams for him to do something dramatic. That’s why many are whispering about change. Let’s hope that Allen, who has mastered office politics (at least in this organization), cannot convince Snyder otherwise. To hire the best coach, Washington needs a clean slate. No desirable candidate with options is going to take this job with Allen, even if he survives, having a questionable long-term future. It’s far more logical to rebuild the front office and bring in a reliable, ace talent evaluator and leader to implement a fresh plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Tsailand said: I refuse to participate in ES further if we are no longer allowed to accuse other posters of secretly being Dan/Bruce/Jay/etc. Not a problem for me. Just a weak response. 1 hour ago, Tsailand said: Trent should have been traded for value back in February. He is old, injury prone, and has very little left. We’ll see what happens, but hard to argue what’s taken place as a positive for the team to date. I disagree about Trent the player, but a resolution needs to take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailer21 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: These ratings #s are hard to make sense of without some context - I wish the local media folks would put some effort into explaining just how "major" and "shocking" a problem they represent. Finlay elaborated a bit and mentioned the overall 11.7 rating the Skins garnered but again, without some averages or other benchmarks to compare these ratings #s with it's hard to realize how poor they really were. FWIW, here's a snippet from Steinberg's Dec. 2017 column where he starts ringing the alarm bells about cratering local ratings... The local television ratings for Washington’s blowout loss to the Chargers on Sunday afternoon were shockingly low, certainly among the lowest for any game in the Daniel Snyder era. Washington’s 30-13 defeat earned an 11.8 household rating in the D.C. market. Within that column, he reported a weekly average of 26.6 in 2013, and 22.7 in 2014, which were both, as he noted, VERY poopy seasons. For some more context, CNBC reported the Nats garnered a 23.3 average rating during the World freakin' Series in the D.C market. Different sport but the comp goes to show how large a viewing audience the Skins have traditionally had locally. This link below provides sampled NFL ratings data in select markets by week during the 2019 season. The highest local rating I could find for a Skins game was for the season opener: 19.0. Based on the additional data in there and from other sources, I'd guesstimate the average is somewhere in the 15-17 range. https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/nfl-tv-ratings-viewership-nbc-cbs-fox-espn-nfln-regular-season-playoffs/ So all said, I'd say yeah the dropoff for the Skins is pretty bad. Again, would love some deeper dives from the folks whose job it is to report on this stuff but to be fair I'm parsing a tweet. At any rate, the decline in viewership is certainly no surprise to anyone who follows the team. And that's what boggles my freaking mind - what the hell are Dan and Bruce looking at?!?!?!?!?! What more does Dan need to see that this organization is ruined and does, in fact, require a wholesale evaluation of how it operates? How the **** can the 2nd in command not be held accountable for what's going on here? What are Dan and/or Bruce looking at to gauge their success or failures? I guess they think the fanbase is "close" - just as they believed the football team was "close". All we needed was another season where we barely snatched a playoff spot from the jaws of mediocrity and the fans would be hootin' and hollerin' like it was 1991. And if they really believe that, then they're just incapable of seeing the forest through the trees. The one and only way to mitigate this whirlwind of **** is to make sure this thread reaches its logical conclusion in the offseason. If Bruce is around the org in ANY capacity next year, the Mystics will get better local ratings than the Skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Did anyone really think the team stunk as bad as 0-5 or 1-9 says it does? By no stretch did I ever think this was a good to great team going into the season. Winning anywhere from 5 to 8 games seemed reasonable though. I’ve never been confident about the tank for that very reason. What we are seeing and what I expected is a return to the mean. I can’t think of a worse outcome than this team winning games all but reaffirming Snyder that “we’re close”. The goodwill built by winning games and missing the playoffs pales in comparison to the detriment of missing out on a potential franchise changing player and a reboot in the FO. Let’s just pretend that Haskins is the goods and this team is “close”. We need a legit GM and structure to have a prayer at going from close to legitimate. If there was ever a time, the time is now. A late season mirage that buys this guy more time is merely setting this franchise back another season. Some of us would like to get back around to having hope and something to buy into. As is evidenced here over Snyder’s tenure, change isn’t always good. Clearly any change is better than no change at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Does anyone know the details of Bruce's contract? I've been thinking about this for a while and part of me think that if the guy who negotiates contracts (i.e. Bruce, or in the case of the Wizards Ernie), its probably going to be harder to get out of than say a standard player contract or a coaches contract, or even a standard front office guy's contract. And for a while I was thinking...well aren't non player contracts guaranteed? But then we saw the dirt that got dished on Scot, the hearing and the Redskins winning and not having to pay him. So I'm thinking now that Bruce probably put exceptions in his contract that are different than Scot's (like he can't get fired for drinking on the job). I tie this into the stories that Dan doesn't like to pay dead money to coaches. And that Dan is losing money because of #FIreBruceAllen. But I wonder how much it is that Bruce makes yearly. I was assuming it was comparable to Shanahan's money ~ $5 Million a year, but then I've got to think he got a raise in the past 10 years so I'm assuming it was ~$7 Million a year back in 2014. But thats less than $35 Million to fire him any time since then, so what salary would Bruce have to be making to make it financially impossible to fire him early? 10 Million a year? $20 Million? More? Now on one hand these numbers make no sense because most of the top GMs in the league make less than $4 Mil a year. So that leads me to wonder what if Bruce got the same thing as Shanahan - $5 Mil a year for 5 years initially, then in 2014 got it renewed before Shanahan was let go. But how long was this contract for? I'm assuming that the stories are leaking because somebody (say Shaffer) knows the books and that sometime in the near future he can be fired and the team stays in the Black., and maybe this is the first such time that this is possible. I don't know I'm just brainstorming here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Fans saw Cerrato as Snyder’s pawn, a powerless empty suit who merely carried out the owner’s bidding. He was a buffoon and didn’t deserve any title that might associate him with running a football team, but it wasn’t necessarily his fault that he took the job he was offered and did what he was told. Allen’s reputation is more sinister... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteranskinsfan Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just read a good article by Tim Kawakami of the Athletic. The title of the article is: "Jed York's meaningful and quiet 49ers triumph- he hired the right gus and is staying out of the way". In the winter of 2016/2017 York fired Chip Kelly, his 3rd coach in 3 years and also fired the general manager, Trent Balke his most trusted aide. Then he signed Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch for a total of $66 million dollars for two six year deals. It was time to step into the background York told his associates. Both Shanahan and Lynch told York they had to have the space and freedom to do whatever they thought was necessary to fix the franchise and rebuild. So our owner needs to follow the 49ers example. Follow their blueprint for success. If he does not do that then his franchise will continue to lose money and no new stadium will ever be built. He has to let Allen and the interim head coach go and start all over again. Then stay out of the way completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 18 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Did anyone really think the team stunk as bad as 0-5 or 1-9 says it does? DVOA (not counting week 13 yet) says we were the 30th best team in football and should be 2-9, which matched our record. Eight out of nine losses were by two or more scores. Yes, we are about as bad as our record says we are. Maybe worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Yeah, sucks that that first offer fell through, largely because John Cooke thought he could hang on and pushed the other owners to reject Lerner et Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 I was listening to Adam Caplan who said he's been talking to coaching candidates and their agents for weeks. He said he wouldn't be surprised if there are 7 openings this year. He didn't know if Lincoln Riley enters the NFL but if he did every GM that he knows wants him and he'd be the top candidate. He also mentioned Rhule (Baylor), Stefanski (Minny), Roman (Baltimore) and Eberflus (colts) as hot candidates from what he can tell. He said as for the Redskins, Bruce being their hurts, it would help if he's gone. He said people around the league think that the front office structure is "weird" and you don't know who is in charge. And it's not an organization that is known for treating their head coaches nicely behind the scenes and people around the league talk about it. They said the good news is that some of whom he talked to like (albeit don't love) the talent. They specifically think the defense is talented but is grossly underacheiving. He said he talked to a coach (I got the impression that it was one of the 2019 coaching prospects so maybe Stefanski?) who faced this defense this year and he told Caplan he cannot understand why a defense with that kind of talent plays that poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 How about this an owner who speaks to the fans? https://www.nj.com/giants/2019/12/giants-owner-steve-tisch-weighs-in-on-very-frustrating-season-what-does-future-hold-for-pat-shurmur.html Despite the now-constant losing, Tisch plead for Giants fans to keep the faith. “I’m asking for patience,” Tisch said. “I’m being patient, which you know at times is challenging. Please be understanding and patient. I want Giants fans to feel that their voice is being heard.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 I am having a hard time understanding why winning can hep in firing Bruce Allen. If someone can help here that would be very welcomed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Happy through this rough season a rebuild on offense is taking place. Progress while in turmoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 As a life-long fan who attempts to be objective and fair, may I make a suggestion? Learn from Al Davis. Davis was an arrogant, proud know-it-all, who burned bridges, did it his way, by himself. As a result the last several years Davis ran the Raiders into the ground. No man is an island. Learn from Davis that you can’t do it alone. We all need friends and help from time-to-time. Who can you identify as owners and leaders of organizations that can help you this month? Who are the people you know to whom you can share your concerns and they will offer you their wisdom and experiences from their lives in leadership? Are you willing to ask them how they create a culture from the owner and general manager to the phone receptionist to the players? Do you have friendships built that you could talk with team owners like Ted Leonsis, Steve Bisciotti or Art Rooney II? Have you considered hiring someone like one of these former general managers like Ozzie Newsome, Bill Polian or Charley Casserly as your temporary consultant to benefit you during this critical time in what to look for in hiring your next general manager? Have you considered hiring.some like this to consult you during this critical time in what to look for in hiring your next general manager? Will you then be willing to let your new general manager lead the process in whom he interviews and hires as head coach of the Washington Redskins? After all, why would a good head coach candidate come to the Redskins unless a knowledgeable football general manager is already in place? I sincerely wish you and the Washington Redskins a successful transition and future, Ivan Lambert Ivan Lambert is a lifelong die-hard Washington Redskins fan, raised in Berryville, Virginia. He is married and the father of two fine young men. He is currently a sports correspondent for The Ledger in Lakeland, Florida and can be found on Twitter @IvanLambert18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Unless is going to make someone currently on the team: Smith or Williams GM; then he needs to fire Bruce now. It will take a couple of weeks to get a new GM, if we are looking outside the organization. We need to have a new GM hired as quick as possible; so that GM can make the final pick on the new coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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