The Skins RB situation....

[Bang]

I am of the old school thinking.    nowadays a back gets 12-14 carries and it's supposed to be enough...  give me a guy who can carry it 25-30 times. and if we don't have one, well, go find one. We have a good OL (when healthy). They want to be Hogs? Well then go find them someone who can carry it through the holes and smash into the defense with them 30 times per game. 

This entire notion of reducing the run game and that backs are a dime a dozen that the NFL has decided is stupid.

Balanced attacks keep defenses guessing unless you're so good at one that no one can't stop it.

 

~Bang

 

[skinny21]

Know next to nothing about Byron Marshall, but what I liked about the one video posted - he had the peripheral vision to make the jump cut in the first place, it was a nice jump cut, and he showed some burst to get going again. Certainly seems like he offers a different skill set than Kelley/Perine.  Looking forward to seeing how quickly he can acclimate and if he can maximize gains when he does get good blocking.  It would be huge for this team to have a back that can do better than just hit singles (not that I'm expecting much, but I'm hoping).  Of course the blocking has to help out...

 

Was Marshall already on the Eagles PS when they traded for Ajayi?  Not a big deal, but it does give me pause.  

[RandyHolt]

Interesting point on Ajayi, but it always seems to circle back to blocking with these young backs, and trying to figure out why they don't play (Mack Brown aside).

 

With the Iggles LT hobbling, I had read that they needed another back that was strong in pass pro. Henceforth, therefore, ergo, I will presume pass pro is not one of Marshall's strengths. 

 

The more I think about it, the more I think Jay is planning on CT to carry the load going forward. And probably all but abandoning the run.   But per usual, I want him to be smarter about it. Don't slam CT in short yardage. And don't ask Marshall to pass protect with a 7 step drop on his first snap. Heck, his first snap, I'd line him up wide and really give NahorLeens's DC a panic attack. And yep send him deep, anything but pass pro to get his feet wet.  He had to be added to our active roster, so we mind as well use him. We'll replace him if needed next week. Don't cost nuddin' #Bluto

 

CT 10-15 carries as our lead back in a pass first/outside zone approach. Perine short yardage/goal line/CT breathers after big runs ~5-10 carries, Marshall obvious passing downs if CT is gassed / gadget guy. And I would like to see him returning kicks. That equals glorious victory, folks.

[RandyHolt]

We added a back to our PS - LeShun Daniels 6-0 225.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/leshundaniels/2559020/profile

 

 

[RandyHolt]

Galdi had a debate on the backs today. He too was talking up CT being the lead / featured back.  Hi Al!

 

So - Perine never ran from the EYE formation in college, yet seems to be used in the EYE an awful lot (to my eyes). Seeing as we are still contending, why isn't he letting Perine run from the gun more? That is where he dominated in college. Maybe he thinks Perine will be as effective, or just wants him to learn NOW as a high priority. If there is a big difference in his effectiveness, it is high time to use Perine to his strengths, and wait until the season is over to work on him learning to run from the EYE. At least try running from the gun, if the preferred formations aren't working on game days. 

 

Galdi played a Jay comment that didn't let Kirk off the hook on the botched exchange with Perine. And also ranted about "teams that rush 30 times win X% of the time". We need to run moar!!!1! Sorry Bang. I agree with him - that is in the past. More often than not, teams that rushed 30 times and won, passed first to get the lead, and then ran to finish off the opponent.

[OVCChairman]

42 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Galdi had a debate on the backs today. He too was talking up CT being the lead / featured back.  Hi Al!

 

So - Perine never ran from the EYE formation in college, yet seems to be used in the EYE an awful lot (to my eyes). Seeing as we are still contending, why isn't he letting Perine run from the gun more? That is where he dominated in college. Maybe he thinks Perine will be as effective, or just wants him to learn NOW as a high priority. If there is a big difference in his effectiveness, it is high time to use Perine to his strengths, and wait until the season is over to work on him learning to run from the EYE. At least try running from the gun, if the preferred formations aren't working on game days. 

 

Galdi played a Jay comment that didn't let Kirk off the hook on the botched exchange with Perine. And also ranted about "teams that rush 30 times win X% of the time". We need to run moar!!!1! Sorry Bang. I agree with him - that is in the past. More often than not, teams that rushed 30 times and won, passed first to get the lead, and then ran to finish off the opponent.

They also didnt give up 5 TDs in the first 6 drives to the opposing team.... just sayin.  

 

 

 

This is a loaded stat... The reason teams win more when they run more, is because the run is working so they can keep doing it.  Running 30 times for 60 yards does not mean you're gonna win..  Running the ball effectively in the 1st half means you build a lead... then you have 13 carries in the 4th quarter as you eat the clock.  Wins vs Rush attempts and average yards per completion are such unfair metrics that drive me crazy.  They can be signs of success, but that doesn't mean you have to live and die with them.  (not saying you here) Understand the context of the stat before you start focusing your gameplan on it. 

[pcbothwel]

11 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

We added a back to our PS - LeShun Daniels 6-0 225.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/leshundaniels/2559020/profile

 

 

Im a fan. Big and strong with great feet. Very Blount-esque... I also like that his father played OL for the Buckeyes. Bloodlines never hurt in this game.

[Reaper Skins]

17 minutes ago, pcbothwel said:

Bloodlines never hurt in this game.

 

[RandyHolt]

I still want to see Perine targeted more in the passing game dammit. If there is any week it will happen, this could be it.  Why are folks scared of the New Orleans backs?  Because they both can both run and catch.  I am obviously convinced Perine can catch. I have been beating the drums since preseason and he has not disappointed ANYONE albeit in just 6 targets.  Don't get down on him if he has a drop. Crowder had what, 5 last week?

 

Reed Pryor Crowder Quick Grant and Paul are limping.  That leaves CT Davis Doctson and Harris as Kirk's go to guys. More like, only guys.  New Orleans should be ALL over CT, so maybe Perine with his increased snap count can be targeted as a secret weapon of sorts (wheel etc), in what looks to be a shootout.  If nothing else, he's always a candidate for a few checkdowns. 

 

A shootout that is, unless we can get our run game going, and chew up the clock and slow down the game. I saw Perine showed a flash of life last week, and hope Jay builds off that. We need Perine productive if we want to make the playoffs, however it has to happen.

 

CT + Perine > Ingram + Kamara - for one week is all I ask.

[OVCChairman]

5 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I still want to see Perine targeted more in the passing game dammit. If there is any week it will happen, this could be it.  Why are folks scared of the New Orleans backs?  Because they both can both run and catch.  I am obviously convinced Perine can catch. I have been beating the drums since preseason and he has not disappointed ANYONE albeit in just 6 targets.  Don't get down on him if he has a drop. Crowder had what, 5 last week?

 

Reed Pryor Crowder Quick Grant and Paul are limping.  That leaves CT Davis Doctson and Harris as his go to guys. More like, only guys.  New Orleans should be ALL over CT, so maybe Perine with his increased snap count can be targeted as a secret weapon of sorts (wheel etc), in what looks to be a shootout.  If nothing else, he's always a candidate for a few checkdowns. 

 

A shootout that is, unless we can get our run game going, and chew up the clock and slow down the game. I saw Perine showed a flash of life last week, and hope Jay builds off that. We need Perine productive if we want to make the playoffs, however it has to happen.

 

CT + Perine > Ingram + Kamara - for one week is all I ask.

By virtue of bodies I feel like Perine is going to get a chance to show this week what he can do.  I really hope Jay gives him the reps, and we all know how Kirk likes to check down... hopefully it happens a few times while Perine is in the backfield.  

[NoCalMike]

A stout running game is a luxury because it has so many positive effects such as helping with the play action pass game. Also, it really helps a defense when an offense can control the clock and then in the 2nd half use the run game to keep the opposing defense on the field for longer stretches of the game.

 

Honestly, I felt like I saw Perine put together his best effort in the Vikings game.  With Kelley done for the season I'd use the rest of the season to see what Perine has.  Give him the bulk of the carries, while still finding rush attempts for Thompson (since Thompson will always be effective in the short passing game too).

 

Rob Kelley if he ends up back here next season under normal "we have our RB" circumstances, should be moved to a 2nd half bruiser role which is used to punish a worn down defense in the second half.  As it stands now, his field vision is so poor that he is leaving way too many yards on the field when there are clear cutback lanes to go through.

[skinny21]

So why is Perine more successful running from shotgun?  Only things I can come up with is:

 1) it takes him longer to get to the LOS and therefore gives the blockers more time to get in position (i.e. he needs to be more patient when the qb is behind center),

2) he gets the ball further from the LOS which helps his vision

3) teams stack the box less often vs more of a passing formation.  

 

Thoughts?

[RandyHolt]

29 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

By virtue of bodies I feel like Perine is going to get a chance to show this week what he can do.  I really hope Jay gives him the reps, and we all know how Kirk likes to check down... hopefully it happens a few times while Perine is in the backfield.  

It has to Samaje's time.

 

I have theorized Jay will start CT, but it may well end our season if Jay over works CT and do think Jay will remain cautious there, at least until late in the year. A start of CT would be more to throw a curve ball.   I think we all expect a healthy dose of Perine, regardless.

 

Can you recall the formations or play calls (generally) on Perine's best plays last week.... e.g. was it more outside stuff?

[RandyHolt]

14 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

So why is Perine more successful running from shotgun?  Only things I can come up with is:

 1) it takes him longer to get to the LOS and therefore gives the blockers more time to get in position (i.e. he needs to be more patient when the qb is behind center),

2) he gets the ball further from the LOS which helps his vision

3) teams stack the box less often vs more of a passing formation.  

 

Thoughts?

Good post as usual... I think it may be all 3, but forced to choose one I think it's #3. Less bodies, more time to gain speed - which uses him to his break tackle abilities the most, and also minimizes his weaknesses - a lack of quick nimble cuts - which are needed in heavy traffic if expecting a big run out of nothing.

 

I will add #4.  It's his wheelhouse. Like coming home. He is just more comfortable running from gun/pistol and doesn't have to think about where to go when facing less bodies inside. Paraphrasing Top Gun - if you think, you're toast.

[OVCChairman]

8 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

It has to Samaje's time.

 

I have theorized Jay will start CT, but it may well end our season if Jay over works CT and do think Jay will remain cautious there, at least until late in the year. A start of CT would be more to throw a curve ball.   I think we all expect a healthy dose of Perine, regardless.

 

Can you recall the formations or play calls (generally) on Perine's best plays last week.... e.g. was it more outside stuff?

No I THINK it was more inside stuff... downhill.  he's not a stretch runner and our O-line is not in the shape to go sideline to sideline all game.  Early in the year Spencer long could get across the face of an LB... now it's not gonna happen.  Old fashion blunt force trauma is gonna have to get it done this week. 

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

No I THINK it was more inside stuff... downhill.  he's not a stretch runner and our O-line is not in the shape to go sideline to sideline all game.  Early in the year Spencer long could get across the face of an LB... now it's not gonna happen.  Old fashion blunt force trauma is gonna have to get it done this week. 

Thanks - I missed the game last week.

 

So blunt force it is, and that is definitely up Samaje's alley. He just needs to get up to ramming speed.

 

 

 

[RandyHolt]

As per usual, Bullock has all we need to know - the best runs may have been outside.

 

After watching these gifs, dare I say it looks like Perine is getting better, and showing more decisive cuts.

 

Zone Inside - an almost cat like jump cut

 

Outside - cut back and then lowers the head

 

Outside - a big decisive cut back inside

 

Power - Counter Trey Left and cuts back inside for 5 extra yards (nice pull and kick by Terry Hermeling)

 

 

 

 

[OVCChairman]

@RandyHolt Im sorry by outside i'm thinking sweeps and tosses and less between the tackles. 

 

Clearly my assessment was incorrect about the downhill part, the cutbacks and misdirection appear to be progressing with him.  I'm not giving up on this kid yet, I remember that play where he did the jumpcut and went essentially off Scherffs hip and was impressed seeing it live.  I like this kid a lot.  

 

on that last .gif I really liked his ability to set up the LB coming across to the outside, just to cut back in and essentially get that LB caught up in the wash.  If he tries to keep going outside he outruns moses and the LB can carry him to the sideline not allowing him to get going downfield.  

[RandyHolt]

1 minute ago, OVCChairman said:

@RandyHolt Im sorry by outside i'm thinking sweeps and tosses and less between the tackles. 

 

Clearly my assessment was incorrect about the downhill part, the cutbacks and misdirection appear to be progressing with him.  I'm not giving up on this kid yet, I remember that play where he did the jumpcut and went essentially off Scherffs hip and was impressed seeing it live.  I like this kid a lot.  

 

on that last .gif I really liked his ability to set up the LB coming across to the outside, just to cut back in and essentially get that LB caught up in the wash.  If he tries to keep going outside he outruns moses and the LB can carry him to the sideline not allowing him to get going downfield.  

I agree on that last gif, it was good for an extra ~5 yards.

 

No apologies - you make great posts and obs. I am forced to half guess on play calls most of the time. "Outside" to me, is a clear attempt to run outside the T, from where the T was originally lined up. Inside, a run behind the T and in.

 

Our boy is growing up right before our eyes. Only, he looks to be 40 years old and is as strong as an ox.

 

If we win on Sunday, it may be from us rushing for 200 yards. I hope Jay uses Marshall and that he make a splash. I heard Jay say he is between 215-220. I was wrong via a site I saw that listed him at 205.

[Warhead36]

Saints run D is bad according to Cooley this morning on 980. This could be Perine's coming out party.

[Dark Acre]

Hey Randy, why'd you remove the Terry Hermeling reference?  Did someone call you old?    Hey, I remember Hermeling too!  (And Ron Saul, Bob Kuziel, and even Len Hauss).  Remembering Starke doesn't make you old since he played until 1984. 

[RandyHolt]

21 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Hey Randy, why'd you remove the Terry Hermeling reference?  Did someone call you old?    Hey, I remember Hermeling too!  (And Ron Saul, Bob Kuziel, and even Len Hauss).  Remembering Starke doesn't make you old since he played until 1984. 

HAHA busted - I actually forget Scherff's number - I thought it was one of our backups.  Nice pull on the names. Ray Schoenke!

 

I will add it back for fellow old timers that remember the players numbers of decades gone by.  Living in the past is certainly a thing for Skins fans. Those of us truly old timers may not think twice...

 

[NeverSurrender]

Do you guys think were actually going to run effectively this weekend? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[RandyHolt]

I think we will can get 100+ yards but per usual, it depends on play calls. If Jay wants a shootout...

 

Perine was effective just last week and certainly seems to be slowly trending getting better to me. CT has been effective all year. We have a shiny new back to complain about not getting enough touches. Kelley is out after one great quarter in 3 months of games....  there is a changing of the guards.  Our OL may be getting healthier, or learning to play one on leg. 

 

The Saints are riding all high on themselves. The bigger they are, the harder they fall. Who have they beat again? Their D is trending better for sure, but its football, anything is possible.

[Redd]

I see why we drafted Perrine.  He needs a lot more touches.