2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, TK said:

Oh I've heard something. But there's moving parts involved so no idea if can be pulled off. Though if they do, I might have to start liking Bruce. At least for the weekend.  

 

The scenario I've heard was trade back out of 13 & packaging some combination picks with those comp picks to move back into the 1st & nab both Guice & Payne or a Safety & Payne if it looks like Guice would still be there when they pick in the 2nd.  

 

Thanks.  Interesting.  Trading down seems the obvious way to go as to landing a big time RB. Only problem (and I gather its a good problem to have) is I think they are going to get their dream wish of either James or Fitzpatrick landing at 13.  So if they want to trade up from 44, I gather they need to trade next years first to jump up into the late first round.

 

Craig Hoffman said Redskin scouts told him they like a bunch of RBs in the draft.  If that's so even if they don't get Guice or Jones, I gather they might just sit at 44 and see whose left.

 

The irony is the Eagles are linked hard to both Guice and Jones and to a lesser degree the Giants if they don't take Barkley. 

 

Wonder if the Redskins would skip over their love for Fitzpatrick or James if they got a big trade offer for their pick.  Not sure I'd trade the pick in that case because I love both players, too. 

[bh32]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Thanks.  Interesting.  Trading down seems the obvious way to go as to landing a big time RB. Only problem (and I gather its a good problem to have) is I think they are going to get their dream wish of either James or Fitzpatrick landing at 13.  So if they want to trade up from 44, I gather they need to trade next years first to jump up into the late first round.

 

Craig Hoffman said Redskin scouts told him they like a bunch of RBs in the draft.  If that's so even if they don't get Guice or Jones, I gather they might just sit at 44 and see whose left.

 

The irony is the Eagles are linked hard to both Guice and Jones and to a lesser degree the Giants if they don't take Barkley. 

 

Wonder if the Redskins would skip over their love for Fitzpatrick or James if they got a big trade offer for their pick.  Not sure I'd trade the pick in that case because I love both players, too. 

From every mock draft that i have seen i don't see either James or Fitzpatrick falling out of the top 12...What make you think that one of them is gonna fall?

 

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, bh32 said:

From every mock draft that i have seen i don't see either James or Fitzpatrick falling out of the top 12...What make you think that one of them is gonna fall?

 

You are missing a lot of mocks then. Off the top of my head and I know there are more than just them. James or Fitzpatrick fall to 13 or lower by:

 

D. Brugler

Jeremiah

Standig

A. Breer

Casserly

B.Brooks

Josh Norris

 

There were even muliple seperate articles about Fitzpatrick and James possibly dropping, some of those articles were posted on this very thread. Draft geeks talking about it on twitter, too.

 

Not saying its slam dunk that it happens but plenty think its a viable possibility. Personally I think either Ward, Fitzpatrick or James is just about a slam dunk to fall to 13 if the rumors of Edmonds and R. Jones are rising and will go top 12.

 

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've watched my share of Guice during the season and then after this off season.  Soft would be one of the last things that hit me when it comes to Guice.  Maybe off the field he's a little zany versus coming off like a tough guy but on the field to me my fear if anything is he's a bit too tough and almost relishes contact.

 

 

 

@cakmoney61 was responding to @Koolblue13 ‘s comment about Barkley...not Guice. 

[Est.1974]

I'm all in for the trade back from 13 and then jump back into the first scenario. Been calling that option all along, I hope we make that work, at reasonable cost.......

 

Couple of immediate impact defenders in the first and RB in the second. That would be a draft of beauty.

[The Consigliere]

18 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Guice better but Michel would be my next guy.  I've spent more time on RBs than any position.  Granted Portis knows a mile more than me about the position to say the least.  The only guy I disagree with him on is Ronald Jones -- he didn't like him in his report.  I do.

 

For me, removing Barkley, I'd go:

 

1. Guice

2. Michel

3. Chubb

4. R. Jones

5. Penny

 

If we pick in the 2nd and don't trade down, I think Penny is the only guy left, maybe Chubb.

 

 

I'd agree if he had a major injury like Chubb that needed surgery for three ligament tears. But all that Guice had from what I understand was a deep thigh bruise last year which gave him the feeling of a dead leg.  And he played through it.  According to his coaches it healed at the end of the season.   Night and day. 

 

Michel is REALLY complicated, and REALLY difficult to evaluate. He's got one of the best, was it the best OL in the country? Considering Barkley ran behind the worst OL Barfield had seen in 3 draft seasons of evaluating prospects with his yards created model, that's an insane to think about and worth mentioning. Michel looks good on that yards created model, doesn't look good in the metrics, ran behind a monster line, and it sure as hell looked liked he had significantly better running lanes to work with than Chubb who carried consistently on the more obvious rushing downs. Data seems to back up that Georgia was blowing up massive lanes for him. I can't find his pro day data (which needs to be tweaked anyway), but Barfield is definitely a big fan and I like him too. Like many, I've had a real hard time ranking the big 4 after Barkley. Jones is nowhere near my top 6, so I'm not even thinking about him.

 

Nice write up from Barfield on guru:

 

link:

https://www.fantasyguru.com/articles/yards-created-sony-michel

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

14 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

Bryan is all potential but he is not stereotypical in terms of size and his football IQ is questionable. He just doesn't seems to read the game very well. If you draft him, you gamble on him developing fast. He then could be a steal. 

 

Personally I never take Bryan over Hurst. 

 

Ragnow news doesn't suprices me. Dude his game is super clean. He has no flash but is all game. 

 

That post from Skinsinparadise, looks very good for my mock draft picks ?. 

 

Forget Everything I said. Didn't realize you meant the Michigan DL, obviously should have realized that with the reference to Bryan, but with a post just above yours referencing Hurst, I got lead over the cliff, so to speak. Ignore the below. 

 

 

I'd blow about 10,000,000 gaskets if we drafted Hurst. Such an insanely stupid pick in my view. He's not in my top 2 anyway, Goedert is the clear #1 in my view, but regardless, TE's take FOREVER to develop. It's exceptionally rare that a TE is ready immediately, most don't start yielding consistent positive returns until year 2 at the earliest if not year 3 or longer, and Hurst is already 25 going into his first NFL season. That's just a nonstarter in my book. By the time he's ready, he's probably halfway out of his prime. I just don't get that reasoning, similar to Brandon Weeden (although Weeden was a QB), age also is a major factor in evaluating talent. If you aren't killing 18, 19 and 20 year olds when your 24, you've got serious problems as a prospect anyway, it should be expected for overage prospects to produce better against teenage-21 year old opponents. 

[The Consigliere]

10 hours ago, SkinsFootball said:

Sony Michel listed as the #2 back. Sony has the benefit of being the closest thing to Alvin Kamara. I imagine Gruden would love a back with his capabilities and paired with Alex Smith he would provide the RPOs, read option from the gun aspect. This would allow us to flex our RB outside to create mismatches and misdirection. I wouldn't expect Michel to carry the ball 20-25...but I would think 20 touches with a handful being screens, wheels, dump offs etc. Imagine Michel with 15 carries, Perine 10 and Thompson 5. Sony doesn't tip the defense off any either direction and would be the perfect compliant to round out our backfield.

Guice is a guy I believe would bulk up some since the underwear Olympics is over and could indeed be a 20-25 carries a game type RB. I have no issue with his game as I like the demeanor he would provide our offense. Think the beast mode effect; which gave the hawks attitude and edge when he was at the top of his game.

I would be happy with Guice at 13. The issue with Michel is our draft positioning, in order to grab him we would have to trade down and use our later picks to then trade up. Considering to trade you need a partner I believe that is asking a lot.

 

Not at Kamara's level as a pass catcher or athlete. Just not there. 

 

I agree that he's a legit in space player, and I like him too, but Kamara is a freak, and his CV coming into the league presented serious evidence of his athleticism and chops in the passing game. Michel just doesn't have the same plaudits. He is, apparently, an excellent pass pro guy which is HUGE in terms of being easily usable on all 3 downs for stubborn OC's and HC's who don't like RB's who lack pass blocking chops.

 

I like Michel, would love him if we traded down, or traded up from round 2 middle, to the top of the round to lock him in. Definitely an exciting useful weapon with bell cow potential, and a good partner for the assets we have in house too. Like Chubb, Guice and Penny more, but they're all close for me, and all have different liabilities and strengths. 

7 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

How high is DJ Chark going to go? His combine was great and his highlights demonstrate an ability to track the deep ball, and to make contested catches, but his stats stink. Is he a round 4-5 guy?

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/d.j.-chark?id=32462018-0002-5599-1512-af2ae612016b

 

 

 

He's going to be insanely overdrafted because of his speed and burst drills at the combine, the production is garbage (LSU had the same problem with OBJ and Jarvis Landry though) because their offense is idiotic, and I think his game is limited anyway. Poor man's Kenny stills, or Devery Henderson? Not sure. But I think guys that do what he does, are easy to sign fairly cheaply after they fall a bit flat in the NFL: See Ted Ginn, Kenny Stills, that raiders bust they took over Crabtree etc. There are always speedsters with limited game that you can find and sign up to a two to three year deal for like 9 mill, and then move on. 

 

NO sense in taking him super high. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, guys with his production issues and tape fail to be anything more than an occasional deep threat 9 out of 10 times. A huge PASS for me. 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

6 hours ago, TK said:

Nugget time kiddies.  

 

IF Fitz & Derwin there it’s slam dunk one of them.

 

They like Payne over Vea, but if Edmunds slips & the Safety’s are gone, it’s a toss up between him & Payne.

 

There's an internal debate over RB. They love RoJo & Guice though they are way different in style.

 

 

 

 

 

Completely incompetent F.O. if they're that sold on Rojo. Can't run inside, no vision, no instincts, terrible metrics, no #'s in the passing game, only positive #'s as a runner are off tackle (and almost everyone is skilled at that at that college level other than slowpokes). Terrible prospect w/serious issues. Where does he win? On off tackle pitches? How the heck does that help our running game? Not kidding. Anyone looking closely at his tape, and his #'s has come away horrified, and definitely not impressed. Yes, he was the #1 RB prospect out of High School. He's fast when healthy. Great in space. But we already have that in Chris Thompson, and unlike Jones, Thompson can actually be productive in the passing game (for now, there's no evidence that Jones can, for whatever reason, the #'s simply weren't there-and based on pure production, were amongst the worst in class among all RB's) and what he can't do (run between the tackles, especially on obvious run downs, run with patience and intelligence and vision-he sucks at ALL OF THAT). If we actually like him that much that's absolutely embarrassing. Just gonna keep praying James or Fitz falls, because we seem bound and determined to do something totally idiotic otherwise. 

 

 

6 hours ago, cakmoney61 said:

 

I have to be honest.  I have been concerned about how he would physically hold up in a very violent NFL.  For the last couple of months, I've found myself wondering if he might be a little soft.  Time will tell.

 

Not soft. Smart. He's not Earl Campbell. He may be built like a bulldozer but he prefers to elude tacklers and rather than run over them. That's smart. 

 

Physically hold up seems incredibly silly to me as well. You've seen his frame right:

6'0" 233 31.8 BMI (78th Percentile). He's a size/speed/burst/agility freak. 

 

People are looking for reasons to not like him and it's kind of ridiculous. Every RB evaluator whose looked at his #'s has been blown away (and with good reason), tape geeks are blown away, his combine #'s were insane too. Only concern is with people who want their RB's to be on IR for half the season after constantly trying to run over guys. I know people love to see RB's mow down DB's, but that doesn't work nearly as well in the NFL and usually ends up landing you in the hot tub on Monday and IR on Tuesday. Screw that, if I have Barkley, I'm not asking him to run over people, I'm asking him to be Saquon Barkley, and while he's at it, don't get drafted by the freaking Giants please. 

 

 

 

[wilco_holland]

35 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Forget Everything I said. Didn't realize you meant the Michigan DL, obviously should have realized that with the reference to Bryan, but with a post just above yours referencing Hurst, I got lead over the cliff, so to speak. Ignore the below. 

 

???? haha, yeah that happens. I thought about adding his first name but then thought:"who is gonna miss that I'm ofcourse comparing two of the same position guys."

[wilco_holland]

By the way this thread shows the fun if the draft. It's like poker chess.

 

I want to trade down and grab player A. But what if team 3 picks him with the 23 pick? Yea so we want to trade down before them or trade down and then up again. You are constantly thinking about what moves the other teams might make and how you can react to that. What does that for your plans. 

[Est.1974]

Based on the last couple of pages, starting to think Justin Reid could be a high possibility late first/early second depending on how things unfold.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

 

@cakmoney61 was responding to @Koolblue13 ‘s comment about Barkley...not Guice. 

 

Got it, sorry!  As for Barkley I watched him plenty during the season, haven't bothered in the off season because he's not a realistic get. I don't know if he's soft but reputation wise he's not a big time run over tackles type even though he has the size to do it but isn't bad on that front either.  But he does everything else so well -- he's a scary runner.  Explosive and he's practically a receiver out of the backfield -- I hate that it looks like its inevitable he will be a Giant.  I bemoaned the idea during the season when the Giants kept losing -- now it looks like its going down.   Though part of my also likes that they are blowing off addressing QB

 

3 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

By the way this thread shows the fun if the draft. It's like poker chess.

 

I want to trade down and grab player A. But what if team 3 picks him with the 23 pick? Yea so we want to trade down before them or trade down and then up again. You are constantly thinking about what moves the other teams might make and how you can react to that. What does that for your plans. 

 

Yeah and at least judging by buzz and what Philly reporters are saying they have their eyes on some of the same backs especially Guice.   the thing I hate about the RB position this year is there seems to be an unusual number of teams talking up wanting RBs in the early 2nd who are picking ahead of us.

 

I talked in another post about how Guice is a hard back to stop in 3rd-4th down and short.  Heck if the Eagles draft the dude and we don't address nose this off season the dude IMO will have a field day against our D.  Barkley, clearly, too.  If Alfred Morris  and Darkwa are a handful for our defense imagine those guys?

 

 

[Koolblue13]

We're getting the Bama boys. Im so excited. 

[cakmoney61]

5 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

Not soft. Smart. He's not Earl Campbell. He may be built like a bulldozer but he prefers to elude tacklers and rather than run over them. That's smart. 

 

Physically hold up seems incredibly silly to me as well. You've seen his frame right:

6'0" 233 31.8 BMI (78th Percentile). He's a size/speed/burst/agility freak. 

 

People are looking for reasons to not like him and it's kind of riIdiculous. Every RB evaluator whose looked at his #'s has been blown away (and with good reason), tape geeks are blown away, his combine #'s were insane too. Only concern is with people who want their RB's to be on IR for half the season after constantly trying to run over guys. I know people love to see RB's mow down DB's, but that doesn't work nearly as well in the NFL and usually ends up landing you in the hot tub on Monday and IR on Tuesday. Screw that, if I have Barkley, I'm not asking him to run over people, I'm asking him to be Saquon Barkley, and while he's at it, don't get drafted by the freaking Giants please. 

 

 

 

I said it was a concern of mine, not reality.  Sometimes you have a feeling about something, in this case, it's about Saquon Barkley.  I'm talking about him being mentally tough.  He's done a great job avoiding contact in college (which is a very good thing!).  It won't be as easy in the pros.  I don't want him to be that RB who can't play when he's a little nicked up.

 

I repeat it's just a feeling I have.  I hope he has a great career.  If he went to the Redskins, I'd have the same concern.  BTW, as a Redskins fan, I'd rather face Barkley for 5+ years than a franchise QB for 10+ years.

[redskindan07]

48 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We're getting the Bama boys. Im so excited. 

I may be joining this thread late but which two Baba boys are you hoping for us to get?

[mhd24]

TK's post makes complete sense.  The Colts GM just said they feel they are 8 elite players not named QBs in the draft.  You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see he's talking about Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, Ward, Fitzpatrick, James, Smith, and Edmunds.

 

Assuming no surprises and none of the 8 (along with the 4 qbs) slips, then we need to trade down to a team that wants the top rated tackle (Miller or Mcglinchey).  I think the FO wants to recoup that missing 3rd.   

[Koolblue13]

34 minutes ago, redskindan07 said:

I may be joining this thread late but which two Baba boys are you hoping for us to get?

Fitz and Payne. 

[ksun247]

SKINS FO is gonna do something to shock everyone. They won't be able to trade back and they will take Hurst with #13 and Chubb with our 2nd rounder. 

[Going Commando]

On 4/20/2018 at 7:05 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

I'd agree if he had a major injury like Chubb that needed surgery for three ligament tears. But all that Guice had from what I understand was a deep thigh bruise last year which gave him the feeling of a dead leg.  And he played through it.  According to his coaches it healed at the end of the season.   Night and day. 

 

As far as I know, Royce Freeman never really had a serious injury that forced him to miss time either.  He just lost his ability to make people miss and became a grinder.  If I had to guess why he lost that step, I'd say he went through the natural progression of accumulating a lot of soft tissue (and psychological) damage due to mileage and got burned out in the way that all running backs eventually do.

 

Runningback is a uniquely volatile position.  Cornerback is similar, except the effect of the cliff is even more pronounced in runningbacks.  Guys only tend to be top players at these positions for short windows.  While a RB is dominant, they are these incredibly valuable weapons that can carry your offense and win you games.  And then they lose a step and become ordinary and there is NO transition period from one to the other.  The Chris Johnson progression.

 

The RB position is such a grind.  My fear with Guice would be that he's in the process of losing that special ability to make people miss that happened with other RBs that blew up as sophomores.  His 2016 film is awesome, but I think it's a risky proposition to pick a RB coming off an alarming season early in the draft.  I just couldn't take the chance if I were the one in charge.  Maybe if I could trade down into the 20s I would do it, but not at or near 13.

[Going Commando]

26 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Fitz and Payne. 

 

I don't think there is any feasible scenario to get both, but I would gladly take either one at 13.

 

I love their on-field character.  You can tell football means everything to them.  Guys like that make defenses great.

[The Consigliere]

6 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Based on the last couple of pages, starting to think Justin Reid could be a high possibility late first/early second depending on how things unfold.

 

 

I don't understand why we just don't sign Eric Reid, break the collusion problem and land a solid safety in the process on the cheap AND trade down.

 

That makes about 1000% more sense than almost anything AND it would serve the dual purpose of for the first time in forever, making the redskins appear to be an organization worthy of the attention of players for reasons other than a last pay day before the retirement home. 

 

I would have been on that months ago. Makes so much sense. 

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, cakmoney61 said:

I said it was a concern of mine, not reality.  Sometimes you have a feeling about something, in this case, it's about Saquon Barkley.  I'm talking about him being mentally tough.  He's done a great job avoiding contact in college (which is a very good thing!).  It won't be as easy in the pros.  I don't want him to be that RB who can't play when he's a little nicked up.

 

I repeat it's just a feeling I have.  I hope he has a great career.  If he went to the Redskins, I'd have the same concern.  BTW, as a Redskins fan, I'd rather face Barkley for 5+ years than a franchise QB for 10+ years.

 

Just a hunch you mean then? Okay. I can understand that. Sometimes I have similar sneaking suspicions about prospects too based on feel rather than logic so I can get that. I had a hunch Hunt would be great, but his combine really worried me. On the opposite end, I had a hunch Wentz was another big armed reach, and I was totally wrong. 

 

 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

 

 

I don't understand why we just don't sign Eric Reid, break the collusion problem and land a solid safety in the process on the cheap AND trade down.

 

That makes about 1000% more sense than almost anything AND it would serve the dual purpose of for the first time in forever, making the redskins appear to be an organization worthy of the attention of players for reasons other than a last pay day before the retirement home. 

 

I would have been on that months ago. Makes so much sense. 

 

Getting a free agent vet safety in after the draft might be an option depending on how it goes, I happen to think we really like Nicholson and DJ as starters and we are looking for a more versatile DB to add to the group, James and Fitzpatrick would fit that mould.

 

Eric Reid likely wants starter money and a starters role and I'm not sure we think we need that.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

As far as I know, Royce Freeman never really had a serious injury that forced him to miss time either.  He just lost his ability to make people miss and became a grinder.  If I had to guess why he lost that step, I'd say he went through the natural progression of accumulating a lot of soft tissue (and psychological) damage due to mileage and got burned out in the way that all running backs eventually do.

 

The RB position is such a grind.  My fear with Guice would be that he's in the process of losing that special ability to make people miss that happened with other RBs that blew up as sophomores.  

 

Get the point.  However, IMO the Freeman example you use actually strengthens not weakens the point for Guice.

 

Freeman:  1418 carries.  22 years old.

Guice:  471 carries.  20 years old, will be 21 when the season starts.

 

I just don't see how a guy with limited milage and is so young and simply had a deep bruise last year (no surgery) -- and his coaches swore his burst came back at the end of the season is someone we have to worry about that he's seen his best days.  I get that its some worry but I don't see it as an overriding worry.