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    • By Destino in ES Coverage
         1
      Good afternoon Redskins fans!  I have once again been invited to sit in the relative comfort of the press box and shout my thoughts into the void via this blog.  As you watch the game today and see the rain  pour relentlessly from the heavens, know that I am safe and dry.  Know also that @Spaceman Spiff is out there somewhere, cold and unappreciated, rolling around in the muck trying to capture that perfect picture.  Maybe say a little prayer for his health (or laugh, whatever, I’m not judging you).  Also, be sure not to miss the pictures he posts on this site after each game.     
       
      Before we get into today's Redskins game, I want give some thanks for more positive occurrences in DC sports.  Congrats to the Washington Mystics for winning their first championship.  Congrats go out to the Washington Nationals as well for reaching the world series.  These two teams (along with the Caps) are working hard to change the sports related mood around this town, and we're all happier for it. 
       
      Lets move now into less cheerful topics, namely your Washington Redskins!  Yow know things are going bad, and I mean really dang bad, when your team has gone through three quarterbacks and two coaches and your not even half way through the season.  Today's fresh hell comes in the form of a specter of the our recent past coming to smirk at our misfortune.  Im talking of course of Kyle.  Kyle's spent the week assuring everyone that he isn’t holding a grudge, while very obviously holding a grudge.  “Everything else.”  You know what I’m talking about. 
       
      If all he brought to town were his hurt feelings we wouldn’t have a problem.  Sadly, he’s arrived with an undefeated football team that the NFL says we have to play this week.  This feels entirely unfair. 
       
      My generic key to the game:  Run the ball and stop the run.  The team (spoiler alert: 49ers) that does this today will win.   
       
      Redskins Inactives  
      QB Colt McCoy  
      S Deshazor Everett  
      CB Josh Norman  
      RB Chris THompson  
      LB Josh Harvey-Clemons 
      G Wes Martin  
      TE Vernon Davis  
       
      49ers inactives  
      QB CJ Beathard 
      WR Deebo Samuel  
      CB Ahkello Witherspoon  
      FB Kyle Juszczyk 
      T Mike McGLinchey 
      T Joe Staley 
      DL DJ Jones 
       
      1st Quarter Update
      Redskins 0 – 0 49ers
       
      Callahan wasn’t playing around when he said he wanted to run the ball.  That first drive was all runs, and looked great... right up until they tried to pass the ball.  Hopkins missed the relatively short fied goal, because of course he did.     

      Maybe Quinn isn’t a good choice to be returning punts?  Consider it.    
       
      That second Redskins drive looked more like what we’ve come to expect from this offense.  Run for negative yards, pass dropped, and an unsuccessful screen pass.  A quintessential Redskins three and out. 

      Passing yards this quarter:  Redskins 3. 49ers 9.  Are you not entertained?! 
       
      Half Time Update
      Redskins 0 – 0 49ers 
       
      How happy are you to spend your Sunday afternoon watching this game?  Consider that some people paid money, to sit in a poncho, in the rain, to watch this game. 
       
      It’s now time for those half time adjustments that our beloved skins do so well.  It’s unlikely the second half mirrors the first. 
       
      3rd Quarter Update 
      Redskins 0 – 3 49ers  
       
      Good news, this game will not end in a 0-0 tie.  Those half time adjustments have kicked in as expected and the 49ers have found a way onto the scoreboard in this messy throwback game.  The Redskins have decided to spend the second half collecting holding penalties and sadness.  Mercifully, only one quarter remains. 
       
      End of Game Update 
      Redskins 0 – 9 49ers 
       
      Callahan hasn’t spent much time as head coach, but he’s already proven that his team can waste 2nd half timeouts like a veteran.  It makes little sense to adopt a strategy that shortens the game when your team is losing, and it makes even less sense when your team is short on time outs.  I’m not really sure what the thinking as late in this game.    
       
      Next week Kirk Cousins!   
       
       
stevemcqueen1

2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

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I posted these in the thread last year, and it seemed to be popular, so here's this year's quotes from anonymous scouts about some of the premium prospects, written by Bob McGinn.  His rankings are a little weird, but it's really all about the quotes :).

 

I bolded the players who are constantly being talked about in this thread.

 

 

Quote

 

Based on interviews with five NFL executives in personnel, it is possible to narrow down somewhat the pool of players that might be considered by the Green Bay Packers regardless of position if they exercise their current 14th selection in the first round of the draft on April 26.

 

Prospects were conservatively divided into four categories: As Good As Gone – barring negative developments, these players have virtually no chance of reaching No. 14; Probably Gone – players who appear to have no better than a 50-50 chance of remaining on the board at No. 14; The Next Level – players who project in the top 40; Second-round Possibilities – players who project in the top 60.

 

This is the first of a four-part series looking at 60 players who might fit into these four layers of the draft (underclassmen are denoted by asterisk). In each category, players are listed in the following order of position: WR, TE, T, G-C, QB, RB, DE, DT, OLB, ILB, CB and S.

 

AS GOOD AS GONE (4)

SAM DARNOLD*, QB, Southern California: 6-3 ½, 221. 

Only one of the top quarterbacks that elected not to throw at the NFL combine Saturday in Indianapolis. Third-year sophomore gave up final two seasons of eligibility. “There was no need for him to stay,” said one scout. “Off the field is all there. The guy’s a winner. He’s a playmaker. He’s got a lot that you look for. You’ve got to take a chance with him.” Compared by another scout to Andrew Luck. “Luck went back for another year (at Stanford in 2011) and improved so much,” he said. “He needed to do what Luck did. The more I watched Darnold I see the same guy. Luck was a big-time athlete with a big-time arm. I didn’t like Darnold’s motion. He fumbles a lot because he drops his arm. Once he brings his arm up he’s really quick. Thing that impressed me the most about him is his eyes. Things don’t seem to bother him. If you watch the Ohio State game (in the Cotton Bowl) he got the crap kicked out of him in the first half but came back and had a great second half.” His 40-yard time was 4.85 seconds. “Quickest release of the bunch,” said a third scout. “He can move, too.”

 

JOSH ROSEN*, QB, UCLA: 6-4, 226. 

Third-year junior with three seasons as the starter. “He may be the best pure passer of the bunch,” said one scout. “It all depends on his personality. Aaron Rodgers was a ****y (bleep) when he came out, too.” Another scout called Rosen the best pure thrower since Drew Brees. “He throws effortlessly,” he said. “His mechanics are excellent. Only thing that worries me about him is his body. He’s slightly built … he’s been banged up a lot. He also has not improved since his freshman year.” Noel Mazzone served as the Bruins’ offensive coordinator during Rosen’s freshman season before departing for Texas A&M. “The second year was a total disaster,” the scout said of 2016 when Kennedy Polamalu served as the Bruins’ coordinator. “This year (Rosen) came back a little bit.” Completed just 60.9% in his 30-game career. “He looks the part when he throws the ball but he lacks the rest of the assets you need to be a winning quarterback up here,” a third scout said. “Off the field he doesn’t have that profile you want for someone leading your team. He’s a talented pocket passer when things are clean but things aren’t clean in the NFL, you know?” Clocked 4.85.

 

SAQUON BARKLEY*, RB, Penn State: 6-0, 233. 

It looks like an excellent draft for running backs but none can compare to Barkley. “There’s at least nine starters in this draft but he’s a slam dunk as the first to go,” said one scout. “He should be great. It all depends on scheme fit. He’s way faster than Le’Veon Bell. You’ve got to run the ball 25 times. He’s got to be your show pony.” Blew out the combine with a 4.40 40 (second best among running backs), a vertical jump of 41 inches (tops among running backs) and 29 reps on the bench press (tied for first among running backs). “He should be the first pick in the draft,” another scout said. “He runs, catches and returns. He was their No. 1 receiver in most games. A great running back makes a quarterback look good.” Hard to find a negative. “Big, fast, versatile, great kid, returns kicks, all that,” said a third scout.”

 

BRADLEY CHUBB, DE, North Carolina State: 6-4 ½, 269. 

Regarded by some scouts as the best defensive player in the draft. “He’s really good,” said one. “He plays really hard. He’s got speed. Ultra-productive. Tough. Can play the right and left side. Really can do a lot of things.” Ran 4.80 at 272 a year ago; scheduled to run Sunday at the combine. “He’s a difference-maker,” a second scout said. “Could be an outside ‘backer or a 4-3 D-end. 100% plays hard.” Registered 10-sack seasons in 2016 and ’17. “Better overall effort than Myles Garrett,” a third scout said. “Garrett picked his spots. He’s a 5-technique or a 7-technique … Notre Dame ran at him and wore him down. He played at right end and had to go against (Mike) McGlinchey and (Quenton) Nelson. He’s not that great against the run.” Fourth-year senior scored 19 on the Wonderlic intelligence test a year ago.

 

PROBABLY GONE (6)

QUENTON NELSON*, G, Notre Dame: 6-5, 325.

Probably the best offensive lineman in the draft. “A slam dunk … slam dunk,” said one scout. “He’ll go top 15 for sure. He’s easy.” Impressive in bench-press testing with 35 reps Thursday at the combine but elected not to run the 40 after experiencing hamstring tightness. “He might be the best pure guard in a long time,” said a second scout. “Zack Martin was a tackle (at Notre Dame) you projected to guard. This guy is a guard. Big, moves well, tough, strong. He’s got it all.” Three-year starter at LG. “He’s nasty,” a third scout said. “He wants not only to block a guy but put the guy in the ground and pound him. He’s just a very tough, nasty person. Thing he can do is pull. He’s not that athletic. Against N.C. State he got pushed some before settling.”

 

BAKER MAYFIELD, QB, Oklahoma: 6-0 ½, 215.

In mid-October, former 49ers GM/Packers personnel man Scot McCloughan didn’t hesitate in anointing Mayfield as the No. 1 QB in the draft. “He reminds me of a shorter version of Brett Favre,” McCloughan, who went to work for the Browns last month as a consultant, told Fox sports radio. “Tough guy. He can throw it. He’s very confident, and he’s not afraid whatsoever … whatsoever. He’s a battler. I know saying Brett Favre’s a big name, and I was around him for a while, but this guy has talent.” McCloughan predicted three quarterbacks would land in the top 10 and five would be selected in the first round. “He’s got an arm, he’s got vision, he’s got toughness, he’s got poise, he’s got leadership, he wins,” said another scout. “If he was 6-2 there wouldn’t even be a question he’d be the No. 1 (overall pick). Russell Wilson is very much a comparison.” In December, he became the first walk-on to win the Heisman Trophy. “The coaches there (Oklahoma) say he’s not (Johnny) Manziel but I see Manziel,” said a third scout. “He’s bigger and stronger but not as fast or as quick. He’s short, his game’s outside the pocket and he’s not Drew Brees or Russell Wilson. He holds the ball. I think he has some problems seeing in the pocket. When he runs he doesn’t slide. In the NFL, when you play the game outside the pocket, eventually you’re going to get hurt.” Ran a 4.81 40.

 

JOSH ALLEN*, QB, Wyoming: 6-5, 237.

Farm boy from California who had zero offers out of high school and played one season in junior college. “He’s got incredible arm talent,” said one scout. “He had subpar talent around him. His accuracy issues aren’t that bad. He’s going in the top 10.” Fine athlete with good speed (4.75) and a 33 ½-inch vertical jump. “He reminds me of (Blake) Bortles,” a second scout said. “Bortles lacked consistent accuracy and I see the same thing with Allen. Big-time athlete but really an inconsistent passer. I don’t see (Carson) Wentz. Some people do because they had the same coach (Craig Bohl). Wentz was a very mature, confident person.” Two-year starter. “He looks the part and a good athlete,” a third scout said. “But you talk about lacking in being a winning quarterback. He has a lot of bad tape (even) at that level. Somebody will still take him high. Are we going on what the tape is and the production and the winning? Or are we going on this guy looks like he should be an NFL quarterback and how he throws the ball?”

 

VITA VEA*, DT, Washington: 6-4, 347.

Often compared to Cleveland NT Danny Shelton, his former teammate and the 12th pick in the 2015 draft. “Danny Shelton might have made more splash plays but they’re similar guys,” one scout said. “He’s top 10. He’s a man. For a 350-pound guy he does (have movement). Plays hard. He just powers guys. Violent. Strong. He’s good.” Two-down run stuffer with marginal pass rush. “He’s better than Shelton,” said a second scout. “Wide shoulders, good arm length, big butt, thighs, calves. He’s got some bad belly, though. You can’t believe how this guy can bend and squat. I saw him in warmups. More of a disruptor than a finisher and he does take time off.” Improved standing considerably at the combine by running a 5.12 40 and putting up 41 reps on the bench press.

 

TREMAINE EDMUNDS*, LB, Virginia Tech: 6-4 ½, 253.

Third-year junior and two-year starter. “Inside linebacker, best of the bunch,” said one scout. “He does anything you want. He can run, he can stack, he can use his arms, he’s got eyes and he’s a great person. He may be faster than (Anthony) Barr. Top 15.” Tall for inside linebacker and doesn’t have classic pass-rush skills for outside. Skilled in coverage. “Big, rangy guy,” said a second scout. “Extremely athletic. Good against run and pass. Only thing I didn’t like about him was against Boston College he missed five tackles. Played the boundary inside backer there but he’s an outside linebacker.” On Sunday, he ran the 40 in 4.54.

 

MINKAH FITZPATRICK*, CB-S, Alabama: 6-0, 204.

Third-year junior played on passing downs in 2015, safety in ’16 and a little bit of everything in ’17. “He’s probably the fourth best player in the draft,” one scout said. “He’s the best defensive back. He’s in a class by himself because he can do so much. He can play all five positions. He can cover the slot. He can go outside. He’s like a Patrick Peterson. I’m not saying he’s Patrick Peterson but he is that good of a guy. He’s the whole package. He not only covers but he hits, too.” Returned four of his nine interceptions for touchdowns. “He’s a heady guy in their system but I don’t see an elite talent,” said another scout. “One of those who gets a lot of praise for playing a lot of positions but he’s not a physical guy if he played safety and he’s not really a cover guy at corner. If you get him at the right time you like him but where they’re talking about taking him, the top 10, I don’t see that in him at all. Kind of a tweener. Not strong. Ha Ha (Clinton-Dix) was a much more impactful player (at Alabama) than this guy.”

 

 

 

THE NEXT LEVEL (28)

CALVIN RIDLEY*, WR, Alabama: 6-0 ½, 189.

Might have solidified his status as the top wide receiver in the draft with a 4.43 40. “He’s probably the best,” said one scout. “Excellent route runner. He’s got speed and quickness. Just a football player. Great savvy. He’s just small and doesn’t play strong.” Weighed less than 190 at the combine. “He’s not Amari Cooper but he’s built like Amari Cooper,” said another scout. “He’s very quick. He separates from people in short and intermediate areas. He played with a guy that can’t pass (Jalen Hurts). In the big games he didn’t make the plays. The freshmen receivers did.”

 

CHRISTIAN KIRK*, WR, Texas A&M: 5-10 ½, 201.

Third-year junior. “Dynamic slot receiver,” said one scout. “He’s able to get separation. Playmaker. Most years he’s right on the bubble of being a top-10 wide receiver.” In other words, this is a poor year for top wide receivers. Three-year starter with 209 receptions. Averaged 22.6 on punt returns, returning six for touchdowns. “Big-time player,” one scout said. “Excellent returner on punts and kickoffs. Explosive. Only thing that hurt him this year was the quarterback (Kellen Mond) didn’t throw well. Only negative is his height. He’s well-built. Good hands. Extends and lays out. Really strong.” Had 20 reps on the bench press.

Ran 4.47.

 

HAYDEN HURST*, TE, South Carolina: 6-4 ½, 250.

Played two years in the Pittsburgh Pirates’ minor-league chain out of high school before returning to football. “He’s 24,” said one scout. “He’s an H-back who catches the ball well but he’s not a blocker. I questioned his block effort. He’s a good athlete with good hands.” Ran 4.67. “He’s the only tight end with a chance for the first round,” said another scout. “Aggressive, athletic, developing. Really good hands. He’s understanding the concepts of in-line blocking.”

 

MIKE McGLINCHEY, T, Notre Dame: 6-8, 309.

Started at RT in 2015 and at LT in 2016-’17. “He’s probably the best (tackle) and he’s more of a solid right-tackle type,” one scout said. “Not an elite left tackle but there’s guys like that playing all over the league. Somebody might take him top 15.” Scored 27 on the Wonderlic intelligence test a year ago. “He’s a finesse guy,” said another scout. “He needs to get stronger (24 reps on the bench). He has length. Understands angles. He’s technically sound. He’s not physical, though.”

 

KOLTON MILLER*, T, UCLA: 6-8 ½, 309.

Fourth-year junior started at RT in 2016 before a leg injury shortened his season to five games, and then at LT in ’17. “He’s the best tackle I’ve seen at UCLA since the guy (Jonathan Ogden) that went to the Ravens a long time ago,” one scout said. “UCLA guys usually are soft. I couldn’t find anything wrong with the guy. Strength and power are OK but he’s really a good athlete. Excellent pass blocker both edge and inside. His pad level as a run blocker was good, which shocked me for a guy 6-7.” Worked out extremely well at the combine with a 4.95 40, a 31 ½ vertical jump and a 10-1 broad jump. Bench-pressed 24 times, “He’s a left tackle who has patience, angles, hands, enough size,” another scout said. “Needs to get a little bit stronger.”

 

TYRELL CROSBY, T, Oregon: 6-4 ½, 309.

Has started at both LT and RT. “He’s top 50,” said one scout. “He’s got all the bend and flex. Not first round.” Didn’t run well at the combine (5.23) and did poorly on the bench press with 17 reps. “Really a big-time athlete,” another scout said. “Got feet and movement. Adequate run blocker.” Short arms (32 ¼), big hands (10 ¾).

 

ORLANDO BROWN*, T, Oklahoma: 6-8, 345.

Fourth-year junior with 40 starts at LT. “He’s gigantic,” one scout said. “That’s his best asset. Doesn’t move very well. He’s a right tackle. As a left tackle, he’d get exposed a little bit up here.” Looked all-time awful at the combine with a 5.85 40, 14 reps on the bench, a 19 ½ vertical jump and a 6-10 broad jump. “I’ve been fat my whole life,” Brown said Thursday. “I wish I was fast.” His father, the late Orlando “Zeus” Brown, started 119 of 129 generally at RT for the Browns and Ravens from 1994-’05. “He’s a big, slow-footed mauler guy that’s hard to get around,” said one scout. Arms measured 35.

 

ISAIAH WYNN, G, Georgia: 6-2 ½, 313.

Most of his 42 starts came at guard before he was moved to LT as a senior out of necessity. “He has to be a guard or a center,” one scout said. “Just very, very, very productive. Competitive, smart, good athlete, good strength for his size, good football player.” Height is about his only shortcoming. “He does everything you want,” said another scout. “He’s got arm length (33 3/8). He’s competitive. He’s athletic. He’s big. He has a sense of how to play the position. He’ll (be selected) right there around 30.”

 

JAMES DANIELS*, C, Iowa: 6-3 ½, 306.

Declared a year early after starting two of his three seasons for the Hawkeyes. “He is really athletic,” one scout said. “Excellent pass blocker. Late first round.” Has a chance to be the first center selected. Ohio State’s Billy Price, a four-year starter at center and guard, suffered what he called an “incomplete” pectoral tear Thursday after three reps on the bench press and might slide. “Daniels will go in the first two rounds,” said another scout. “Consistent and fundamentally sound.” Long-armed for a center (33 ¾) but needs to improve his strength. Had just 21 reps on the bench press.

 

WILL HERNANDEZ, G, Texas-El Paso: 6-2 ½, 327.

Old-fashioned drive blocker wears a neck roll and gets after people. “Big mauler,” one scout said. “He’s tough. Pretty decent feet for his size.” Four-year starter at LG for the Miners, who went 0-12 last season and 18-43 during his five years in the program. “UTEP was horrible,” said another scout. “He is one tough sucker, and tough guys play. Square run and pass blocker. I thought he was a good enough athlete. He had short-area quickness and range. No long speed. Good knee bend.” Ran better than anticipated (5.15). Scored 11 on first attempt at the Wonderlic. “He’s really good,” a third scout said. “He’s like a throwback 1960s player.” Had 37 reps on the bench press.

 

FRANK RAGNOW, C, Arkansas: 6-5, 312.

Started at LG in 2015 and at center the past two seasons. “Easy top 50,” said one scout. “He’s a strong, good football player. Ideally not a first-round guy, but he’s among the best of the bunch.” Wonderlic of 24 and had 26 reps on the bench. “He’ll be a starter,” said another scout. “Played both center and guard. Played a lot of ball. Probably better center than guard. Second round.”

 

AUSTIN CORBETT, G, Nevada: 6-4 ½, 306.

Versatility is a plus. Was a three-year starter at LT for the Wolf Pack but played mainly guard and a little center at the Senior Bowl. “Day one starter,” said one scout. “He’s similar to the (Joel) Bitonio guy that came out of there (2014, second round, Browns). He doesn’t look like he should be a left tackle but just very, very, very productive. Competitive, smart (Wonderlic of 27), good athlete, good strength for his size. Just a really good player. First round.” Another scout projected him to the second round. “Strength, tenacity, finish,” he said. “Good drive as a run blocker and quick to the second level. Good edge set, slide and mirror but some problems reacting back inside as a pass blocker.” Ran 5.15.

 

LAMAR JACKSON*, QB, Louisville: 6-2, 216.

Finished third in the Heisman Trophy voting in 2017 after winning it in 2016. “He’s overlooked,” one scout said. “I think people are just kind of taking the easy way out trying to evaluate him instead of actually looking at what he does and the offense he plays in and the throws he makes from the pocket. He’s come a long way from last year to (2017). He’s just not running around when he doesn’t have to … all you hear is Lamar runs all the time. It’s not the case. He takes care of the ball.” Third-year junior with 4,132 yards rushing (50 TDs) and a 57% completion mark. “He’s a lesser Robert Griffin,” another scout said. “He’s stronger physically than Griffin. I don’t know if he’s as fast but he’s close. Big-time athlete, but those guys don’t last long.” Added a third scout: “He’ll go in the second round. He’s got incredible athletic ability. I think he projects to receiver as opposed to a quarterback.”

 

DERRIUS GUICE*, RB, Louisiana State: 5-10 ½, 224.

Probably helped himself Friday with a 4.49 40 at 224 pounds. “He and Leonard Fournette complemented each other (in 2015-’16),” said one scout. “He was more explosive last year. More of a slasher that gets a lot of yards after contact. He does take some hits. Quick starter, can locate daylight. Effective receiver. He doesn’t make much of a pass block. He doesn’t square up on people. I don’t see greatness in him.” Third-year junior. “Had a real disappointing year,” another scout said. “He had a lot of hype coming in. He’s got a lot of off-field stuff you’re got to worry about.”

 

RASHAAD PENNY, RB, San Diego State: 5-11, 220.

Backed up record-setting Donnel Pumphrey until 2017 when he exploded for 2,248 yards (7.8) and 23 TDs. “Extremely productive,” said one scout. “Likes to bounce left. He’s very fast. Runs high. I don’t like his pad level. He’s strong.” Co-MVP of the South team in the Senior Bowl; had a 34-yard run and a 73-yard reception in which he broke an open-field tackle. Scored 9 on his first attempt at the Wonderlic. Ran 4.46.

 

SONY MICHEL, RB, Georgia: 5-10 ½, 214.

Rotated with Nick Chubb for much of his four-year career. “He has more explosiveness than (Nick) Chubb,” said one scout. “Easy top 50. I could see Michel blowing out the combine, and that could get him up in there (first round).” Instead, Michel ran just 4.54. “He’s a fumbler,” said another scout. “But he can run. That dog can hunt. Top 50 easy.” By switching off with Chubb he enters the NFL with just 591 rushing attempts. “Good pass blocker, good hands,” said a third scout. “Is he explosive. Thing I didn’t like is he always carries the ball in his right hand.”

 

NICK CHUBB, RB, Georgia: 5-11, 227.

Overcame reconstructive knee surgery halfway through the 2015 season to surpass 1,000 yards each of the last two seasons. “Completely different body style and play style,” one scout said comparing Chubb to Sony Michel. “Chubb has more feel, little better vision, more of a natural runner. Versatile, tough, strong.” Ran 4.52 at the combine weighing 227. Impressive on the bench press with 29 reps. “He’s a power guy,” said another scout. “Inside, between-the-tackle guy. I don’t see explosion or real speed.”

 

MARCUS DAVENPORT, DE, Texas-San Antonio: 6-5 ½, 264.

Will become the second player drafted out of the Roadrunners’ sixth-year program. “I had never done San Antonio before,” said one scout. “He’s a pure pass rusher. He can zone drop and turn but I never saw him in coverage. He’s an excellent athlete with good strength (22 reps on the bench). Plays with good pad level against the run. Can shed. Has the speed to corner. Uses his hands. I have no negatives on him whatsoever.” Registered 22 sacks in 46 games over four seasons. Weighed about 200 pounds coming out of high school. Had a big week at the Senior Bowl. “He is going top 20 but I wouldn’t take him in the first round,” another scout said. “He scares the crap out of me. He’s a renaissance man, writes poetry and (bleep) like that. I don’t know if football is really that big for him. There’s times he can be soft.”

 

ARDEN KEY*, DE-OLB, Louisiana State: 6-5, 238.

Showed up at the combine weighing 238 and appearing to be in tip-top shape. Played as high as 280 last season before finishing at 255. “He is as talented as any player there is,” said one scout. “It’s all off the field for him. He’s got a little moron in him. He’s got a combination of a lot of things.” Took a leave of absence from program last spring for still unexplained reasons. “He got in trouble there early,” said another scout. “Kind of had a disappointing year. He was more productive than Danielle (Hunter) and is a little bit more athletic.” Third-year junior posted 12 ½ of his 24 ½ sacks in 2016. “Against the run he’s really soft,” a third scout said. “Played mainly in a two-point stance. Finesse player depends on athletic ability, speed and quickness. Run-around guy. Tall, high-cut guy. Softness disturbs me.” Shoulder, knee injuries limited him to eight games last season.

 

Da’RON PAYNE*, DT, Alabama: 6-2 ½, 311.

Third-year junior played in a rotation in 2015-’16 before becoming a starter and key cog in ’17. “Earlier he was just a flash guy who showed some point-of-attack strength,” said one scout. “But he came on in the playoff games and made a lot of plays.” Can play NT or 3-technique. Better pass rusher than statistics might indicate (three sacks). “He’s got an excellent motor, he’s a powerful person and is always around the ball,” another scout said. “No matter who tries to block him he just throws them off.”

 

ROQUAN SMITH*, ILB, Georgia: 6-1, 236.

Third-year junior, two-year starter. “He plays his ass off,” said one scout. “He’s little, though. Just flies around. Has to be kept clean. One of those kind of guys. Real instinctive. Just little and kind of straight-line fast. Not as explosive as Ryan Shazier. I don’t think he’s a first-rounder but when it’s all said and done he will be.” Some scouts feared he might be just 6-feet but at the combine measured 6-0 7/8. He ran very well, too (4.51). “He is Ray Lewis,” said another scout. “You’ve got to have some big defensive linemen like Baltimore used to have to keep people off him. He had problems against Oklahoma because Oklahoma has a huge offensive line. A couple times he just got submerged by them. He can play in space. He can do the whole thing.” A third said Smith wasn’t as good as Lewis or Shazier. “He’s going to go high but he doesn’t deserve it,” the scout said. “There’s a degree of stiffness there that scares the (expletive) out of me.”

 

RASHAAN EVANS, ILB, Alabama: 6-2, 232.

Played sparingly in his first two seasons and then split time as a junior before blossoming as senior in a starting role. “I’d take him over Roquan Smith,” said one scout. “Tough, explosive, physical. More of an outside guy (in a 4-3 defense). Does a little bit of everything.” Didn’t run at the combine but clocked 4.68 at 230 last spring. “Really a good football player,” said another scout. “Strong, good tackler, instinctive, good pursuit angles. Always around the ball. Drops easily. Can run with the tight end across the field. Explosive up the field as a rusher but needs technique development.” Scored 24 in first shot at the Wonderlic but one team expressed major misgivings about his ability to handle a pro system.

 

LEIGHTON VANDER ESCH*, ILB-OLB, Boise State: 6-4, 256.

Oft-injured fourth-year junior really helped himself at the combine with 4.65 40, 39 ½ vertical jump, 10-4 broad jump and outstanding shuttle/agility runs. “Very instinctive,” said one scout. “Alert, active, aggressive. Square tackler. Got good range. These guys don’t get blocked because they have such a great first step. He played inside there but I think outside backer would be best for him. He needs to shed better. That was the only thing.” Played eight-man football as a prep in Idaho (Salmon River High School). Put on about 15 pounds since the start of the 2017 season. “He’s the real deal,” said another scout. “He’s a top 100 player but he has some flaws, too. Physicality.”

 

DENZEL WARD*, CB, Ohio State: 5-11, 183.

Served as the No. 3 cornerback in 2016 behind Marshon Lattimore and Gareon Conley, who were first-round choices last year. Started as a third-year junior, decided not to play in the Cotton Bowl and declared for the draft. “He’s much better than the guy the Raiders drafted last year,” one scout said in reference to Conley. “He’s so quick, and he’s a good tackler, too. Only thing against him is his height. He also had some red-zone problems against (Simmie) Cobbs (of Indiana).” Blew out the combine on Monday in the 40 (4.32), the vertical jump (39) and the broad jump (11-3). “Size is his deal,” said one scout, adding that he wasn’t as good as Lattimore or Conley. “Quick, good feel. Small, but a good athlete.”

 

CARLTON DAVIS*, CB, Auburn: 6-1, 206.

Third-year junior, three-year starter. “He’s very good,” said one scout. “Strong, aggressive tackler. Physical player with cover ability. He had some PIs (pass-interference penalties).” Better in press than off coverage. Prone to assignment errors. Ran 4.53. “I didn’t like what he did today,” one scout said Monday. “He didn’t move well. He’s a little tight.”

 

JOSH JACKSON*, CB, Iowa: 6-0 1/2, 196.

Was in contention for becoming the first cornerback drafted until he ran 4.56 Monday. Still, he made eight interceptions in 2017, his only season as a starter, and entered the combine with many scouts singing his praises. “He’s probably the best (corner),” one scout said. “He’s legit. He’s got size, good athlete, he competes. Good feel and ball skills. But the combine will put guys up or down.” Played mostly zone coverage at Iowa. “I don’t know how good he is in man,” said another scout. “They play Cover 2 and Cover 3. I didn’t see a burst. Average run support. Low tackler, didn’t wrap up. Second round.” Added a third scout: “He is a well-coached football player. He just knows the game of football. He will not improvise and instinctively do something.”

 

MIKE HUGHES*, CB, Central Florida: 5-10, 189.

Extremely productive in only season at UCF before declaring a year early. “Only thing he does not have is great height,” said one scout. “Excellent speed, quickness, catchup.” Dismissed from North Carolina after one season following an assault charge, spent 2016 at a junior college and played just the one season for UCF. Ran merely 4.53 Monday. “Not only did he not run well, he didn’t flip and turn and do all the things I think a top three DB is supposed to do,” one scout said late Monday. Sensational return threat with career averages of 31.7 on kickoffs and 16.6 on punts. Led the leading cornerbacks in the bench press with 20 reps.

 

DERWIN JAMES*, S, Florida State: 6-1 ½, 215.

Probably clinched a first-round berth Monday with a 4.47 40, a vertical jump of 40 and a broad jump of 11-0. Limited to just two games in 2016 because of knee cartilage damage that required surgery. “Big box safety,” said one scout. “Physical and can run, and has some playmaking to him. He’s first round.” Third-year sophomore. “You won’t see a better looking guy but he just doesn’t make a lot of plays or factor a lot,” said another scout. “More of a box safety. Lot of hype but didn’t deliver for me.”

 

SECOND-ROUND POSSIBILITIES (22) (part 1)

CAMERON SUTTON *, WR, Southern Methodist: 6-3 ½, 218. Fourth-year junior. “He looks the part,” one scout said. “He’s gigantic. Not very fast. Not very athletic. Just a big ol’ strong guy.” Ran pretty well (4.54) at the combine for his size, which makes him the biggest of the top receivers. “Nice hands but doesn’t have enough speed or quickness,” said another scout. “He’s got a number of penalties for pushing off.” Averaged 16.5 on 195 receptions and scored 31 touchdowns.

 

JAMES WASHINGTON, WR, Oklahoma State: 5-11, 213. Ran just 4.54 but has a way of getting deep evidenced by his 19.8-yard average (20.9) as a senior. “Big-time vertical production,” one scout said. “Short but a vertical stretch guy. He made that offense go. I think he’s in the 20 to 40 range.” Not only did he run the same time as Sutton but also measured the exact same arm length (32 3/8 inches) and hand size (9 ¾ inches). Built like a running back. “Some people have him as the best guy (wide receiver),” another scout said. “I think he’s just stiff and doesn’t have great hands.”

 

DALLAS GOEDERT, TE, South Dakota State: 6-4 ½, 256. Former walk-on started three seasons at a lower level of competition. “He’s the most complete tight end,” said one scout. “He’s big and can run. Catches the ball well. Makes an effort to block. More of an athletic blocker than a strong blocker. Runs OK after the catch. I compared him to Hunter Henry.” Scored 25 in his first attempt at the Wonderlic intelligence test. “He’s getting a lot of hype but I don’t quite understand why,” said another scout. “I guess it’s just because there is nobody else. He’s just kind of a small-school guy.”

 

MIKE GESICKI, TE, Penn State: 6-4 ½, 247. Three-year starter and top-notch threat in the red zone. “Former volleyball player,” said one scout. “He has vertical catching ability but isn’t a very good route runner. Doesn’t block. Kind of a one-trick pony. Jump-ball guy.” Might have moved up a round with a spectacular combine workout: 4.54 40, 41 ½ vertical jump and 10-9 broad jump. “He has two things going for him: height and hands,” another scout said. “I think he’s really stiff.”

 

CONNOR WILLIAMS *, T, Texas: 6-5, 296. Third-year junior with just 33-inch arms “He’s got bend and flexibility,” said one scout. “The skill set is there. But it’s going to take more than that.” That personnel man said Williams has been entitled to the point it could affect his career in pro football. He also missed much of his final season with a knee injury. “The people at Texas were absolutely shocked he came out,” a second scout said. “He should have gone back. Really a soft guy. Really good athlete with really good feet and movement. But he gets pushed and didn’t look like he was real tough.” Ran 5.05 and had a vertical jump of 34.

 

GERON CHRISTIAN*, T, Louisville: 6-5, 298. Third-year junior started all three seasons on the weak side. “Really good athlete,” said one scout. “Just OK strength and finish. He blocked at the second level well because he is a nice athlete. Average power. Better pass than run block. He’s a guy on the come.” Long arms (35), huge hands (10 ¾). Just 19 reps on the bench press and ran 5.33. “Natural left tackle,” that scout said. “Second round.”

 

BRIAN O’NEILL *, T, Pittsburgh: 6-7, 297. Started two years at RT and last season at LT. “He’s very athletic,” said one scout. “Everyone thinks they’ll be able to develop him. He’ll be like that (Jake) Fisher from Oregon a couple years ago (2015, second round).” Ran a fabulous 40 (4.82). Arms were 34, hands were 9 3/8. Struggled against power in the Senior Bowl. “He is an athlete but limited strength and power,” said another scout. “He’s the kind of guy I used to get excited about but will end up getting cut. He’s really soft.”

 

BRADEN SMITH, G, Auburn: 6-6, 315. Started for three seasons, usually at RG. “Real consistent,” one scout said. “Good run blocker. Good athlete. Tough.” Tested well athletically (33 1/2 vertical jump, 9-4 broad jump) and ran 5.22. “Excellent strength and power,” another scout said. “He matched strength against (Da’Ron) Payne of Alabama. That’s what impressed me. Square pass blocker.”

 

RONALD JONES *, RB, Southern California: 5-11, 205. Third-year junior rushed for 3,619 yards (6.2). “Is he a dynamic runner,” said one scout. “He’s got toughness and can run inside the tackles. He’s got speed to run outside. He can catch the ball on third down. The question is, can he blitz pickup?” Pulled up running his first 40 at the combine. Was timed in 4.65 but scouts expect him to run in the 4.4s when healthy. “He is quick and explosive,” another scout said. “Runs hard inside and outside. Only thing I didn’t like was his size.”

 

SECOND-ROUND POSSIBILITIES (22) (part 2)

SAM HUBBARD *, DE, Ohio State: 6-5 ½, 270. Projects as a DE in a 4-3 defense. “With him, what you see is what you get,” one scout said. “He does it on technique and smarts. Very disciplined player. Coaches are going to like this player because he’s going to do exactly what they tell him to do. He was smart to come out because next year people would compare him to (Nick) Bosa and say this guy’s not very good.” Fourth-year junior with 17 sacks. “Just more of a try-hard type guy,” a second scout said. “Not an elite talent. More of a backup-type player.”

 

JOSH SWEAT *, DE, Florida State: 6-4 ½, 251. Sweetened his credentials at the combine with a fast 40 (4.53), a 39 ½-inch vertical jump and a 10-3 broad jump. “He reminds me of the guy from there who went to the Ravens. Peter Boulware. Built like him. He’s got that kind of take-off,” one scout said. “Best pass rushing off the edge. He can flip and burst around the corner.” Arms measured an impressive 34 5/8 inches. Third-year junior with 12 sacks. “He’s kind of small but he flashes some edge rush stuff,” another scout said. “Plays hard. Not very strong, not very big.”

 

TAVEN BRYAN *, DT, Florida: 6-5, 291. Fourth-year junior projects best as a 3-technique. “Initial quickness,” said one scout. “Kind of a one-gap guy. Plays high. Still learning the game.” Arms measured just 32 ¾ and he ran 4.98. “He doesn’t make any plays,” said another scout. “He plays erect, gets pushed around, not a very good athlete. I don’t see it at all.”

 

HARRISON PHILLIPS *, DT, Stanford: 6-3, 307. Played NT for the Cardinal but might be better equipped for 5-technique in a 3-4. “Good player, does things right,” one scout said. “He’s a Stanford guy. Not a first-round or second-round kind of guy. Solomon Thomas was different but this guy fits in with some of those guys they’ve had before.” Showed great strength with 42 reps on the bench press, tested OK athletically, ran 5.21 and had 33 7/8 arms. “He’s not special in any area but he’s just extremely productive,” said another scout. “He can rush the passer some (16 sacks). He’s intense, he’s consistent.”

 

MAURICE HURST, DT, Michigan: 6-1, 292. Fifth-year senior who improved every year. “Excellent intensity, tenacity and production,” one scout said. “He’s got explosive pass rush. Has quick change of direction with the ability to power (rush). Plays hard. He’s quick.” Left the combine without working out after doctors determined he had a heart condition, according to ESPN. Arms were just 32 inches. “I could never take the guy in the first round,” one scout said before the combine. “He’ll get hammered if he has to play two gaps. He’s a quick penetrator. He‘s just got to fit your system.”

 

MALIK JEFFERSON *, OLB-ILB, Texas: 6-2, 236. Was an attacking-style inside linebacker for the Longhorns but might project best outside as a rusher (12 sacks). “He’s the entire package,” said one scout. “Excellent athletic ability and quickness. Good tackler. Around the ball. Fills and fits well. Can rush the passer. He’s taller than Roquan (Smith). First round.” Three-year starter. Ran 4.52, posted a 36-inch vertical jump and led the top LBs in the bench press with 27 reps. “More of a will space player,” said another scout. “He’s just a regular guy.”

 

HAROLD LANDRY, OLB, Boston College: 6-2 ½, 252. Piled up 16 ½ sacks and seven forced fumbles in 2016 before an ankle injury limited him to eight games and five sacks in ’17. “He had all the production last year,” one scout said. “Played more D-end for them but can’t be a D-end up here. Not a physical guy. Doesn’t really play hard.” Arms measured 32 7/8, ran 4.64, worked out pretty well and had 24 reps on the bench. “He needs to win initially for success,” said a second scout. “Does not fight pressure. Run-around type. Tight in space.” Scored 20 on the Wonderlic. “I think he’s a pipedream,” said a third scout. “But he could be top 50 easy.”

 

LORENZO CARTER, OLB, Georgia: 6-5, 250. Played in both three- and two-point stances for the Bulldogs but probably projects as an OLB for a 3-4 team in the NFL. “He needs to beat you with his first move,” said one scout. “He’s more of a pass rusher than a space guy. Questionable physicality and strength. All speed rush. He can take off and get up the field but then people can just push him.” Really helped himself at the combine with a 4.50 40, a 36-inch vertical jump and a 10-8 broad jump. Arms were 34, hands were 10 3/8. “Underachiever,” said another scout. “Not tough. Doesn’t have really good football temperament. Flash kind of guy. He’ll be a disappointment for somebody.”

 

ISAIAH OLIVER *, CB, Colorado: 6-0, 201. Third-year junior who also was a decathlete for the Buffs track team for two years. “Second round,” said one scout. “He’s got good feet and hips. Only thing I questioned was top speed.” Oliver “didn’t light it up … he was just average,” according to one scout, in his workout Monday at the combine. Ran 4.50. “He’s really good in press,” another scout said. “Off, he needs a lot of work. He’s got a lot of skills. Got good length (33 ½ arms). Not very strong. He might go in the first round.”

 

JAIRE ALEXANDER *, CB, Louisville: 5-10, 196. Evaluators struggle to evaluate Alexander because of a knee injury that limited this third-year junior to six games in 2017. “Little I saw of him I was shocked the guy came out,” said one scout. “I didn’t see catchup speed.” Measured just a shade over 5-10 but ran 4.38 and had an exceptional short shuttle (3.98). “He had the knee,” said another scout. “He was limping around. I didn’t get a true indication.”

 

DONTE JACKSON *, CB, Louisiana State: 5-10 ½, 178. Third-year junior ran a blazing 4.32 at the combine. “If he had size he’d be a top-5 pick,” said one scout. “He reminded me of Philip Buchanon. He’s got that size and quickness. Strong for his size. Good tackler. Excellent one-on-one cover ability. Has problems against tall receivers. I think you stick him in the slot.” Bench-pressed just seven times. Played outside and in the slot for LSU. “He could be top 30 or 40,” a second scout said.

 

JUSTIN REID *, S, Stanford: 6-0 ½, 207. Brother of Eric Reid, the 49ers’ first-round pick in 2013 and a five-year starter at safety. “Some people like the guy but I think they like him because of his brother,” said one scout. “I just didn’t see it. I don’t know why the guy came out. He’s got some ball skills but he misses a lot of tackles.” Had a huge combine, running a 4.40 40 to go with 16 reps on the bench, a 36 ½ vertical jump and a 10-7 long jump. “He struggles in space,” a second scout said. “He’s a box-area type.”

 

RONNIE HARRISON *, S, Alabama: 6-2, 207. Classic strong safety who could bulk up and be a nickel LB. “I got him in the second round until he runs,” one scout said. “He’s a hitter and a strong tackler. Never saw him challenged deep. He has some hip tightness. I can see him in the first.” Didn’t run the 40 at the combine. Arms were 33 3/8. “Tough guy,” another scout said. “Plays the game the right way. Got to be coming forward. More of a box guy.” Should follow Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Landon Collins and Eddie Jackson as starting safeties from Alabama in the last five drafts.

 

 

 

 

https://www.bobmcginnfootball.com/nfl-draft-22-players-second-round-possibilities/

Edited by HTTRDynasty
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4 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I posted these in the thread last year, and it seemed to be popular, so here's this year's quotes from anonymous scouts about some of the premium prospects, written by Bob McGinn.  His rankings are a little weird, but it's really all about the quotes :).

 

I bolded the players who are constantly being talked about in this thread.

 

 

 

https://www.bobmcginnfootball.com/nfl-draft-22-players-second-round-possibilities/

 

I really enjoy reading this kind of stuff, but after finally connecting to people doing real hefty research, building legit models, and really charting, I can't shake the feeling that scouts really are like the clowns in Brad Pitt's Moneyball. There was just an extraordinary amount of total nonsense in some of these takes. Some of them flat out wrong. Some clown thinks Guice is better than Barkley? Really? Another guy trash's Guice's work this past year? Hey genius, he was playing hurt THE WHOLE SEASON, of course he wasn't as good. Some guy talks up Ronald Jones as an inside runner, utterly laughable. He's one of the worst inside runners of the past three years, easy. Ridley's built like Amari Cooper? Really Ray Charles?

 

Just incredible stupidity being showcased. Reminds me of some of the idiocy you see at combine invites and non invites, Justin Watson, not invited, 6 foot 2, 215, 4.49 forty at his pro day since they didn't see fit to invite him to the freaking combine. 86th percentile 40 yard dash, 87th percentile burst score, 98th percentile dominator rating, 80th percentile breakout age, 90th percentile SPARQ-x, huge catch radius. Yep, give us another 10 guys from big 5 schools whose helmet logo is the reason for the invite and not the kid from Penn whose numbers basically go off like a daisy cutter and whose pro day beats about 85-90% of the pro day's of the actual freaking invites. Just clueless. 

 

It's quite revealing, I appreciate the ideas, and insights, but there is SO MUCH FLUFF and SO MUCH ERRONEOUS, total b.s. included it's ridiculous. 

Edited by The Consigliere
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About Arden Key - “He’s got a little moron in him”.

 

That’s hilarious!  :rofl89:

 

Edit:  I had watched a few games from Gesicki and he looked slow.  I couldn’t make sense of it therefore when he did the combine drills.  The stiffness explains it - wasn’t exploding out of his breaks and so I didn’t see much separation, leading to my assumption that he was more of a plodder.  

 

Surprised Hayden Hurst got dinged for his blocking... thought he was solid in-line.   

Edited by skinny21

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It will be interesting to see how the FO looks at the two most likely options to improve our run game.

Option 1- let Kalis continue his growth and take over at LG, drafting a strong RB like Guice/Chubb will make his job a little easier. (I admit that I really like Kalis and was quite sad when Indy stole him from us, glad to see him back)

Option 2- Spend that early round draft capital on a LG instead. Billy Price would allow Perine to continue his development and take that sophomore leap. (I also like Perine, and although he performed so/so last year, I'm not ready to give up on him yet)

 

Obviously there are other options, but I'm assuming that our 1st pick is spent on BPA defensive player (Vea, Minkah, James, Edmunds, etc),

If I had my druthers of those 2 choices, I'd lean towards option 1. I haven't seen enough glowing reviews on Price to make me think that he's anything other than just another everyday run of the mill LG. I think Kalis has every bit as much potential. Perhaps you folks who really study the O-line could convince me otherwise..

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4 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

It will be interesting to see how the FO looks at the two most likely options to improve our run game.

Option 1- let Kalis continue his growth and take over at LG, drafting a strong RB like Guice/Chubb will make his job a little easier. (I admit that I really like Kalis and was quite sad when Indy stole him from us, glad to see him back)

Option 2- Spend that early round draft capital on a LG instead. Billy Price would allow Perine to continue his development and take that sophomore leap. (I also like Perine, and although he performed so/so last year, I'm not ready to give up on him yet)

 

Obviously there are other options, but I'm assuming that our 1st pick is spent on BPA defensive player (Vea, Minkah, James, Edmunds, etc),

If I had my druthers of those 2 choices, I'd lean towards option 1. I haven't seen enough glowing reviews on Price to make me think that he's anything other than just another everyday run of the mill LG. I think Kalis has every bit as much potential. Perhaps you folks who really study the O-line could convince me otherwise..

I like those guys too. I said last year that I think it's going to take Perine a few years to really get it going and I still stick to that. I think having a great back in front of him will take the pressure off and allow him to focus on the bowling ball aspect of his game and it'll all flow from there. He was a 4rth round pick for good reason and still not a bad one. We've been hitting on some of our developmental players recently, so I'm alright with him. Same goes for Kalis.

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19 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

It will be interesting to see how the FO looks at the two most likely options to improve our run game.

Option 1- let Kalis continue his growth and take over at LG, drafting a strong RB like Guice/Chubb will make his job a little easier. (I admit that I really like Kalis and was quite sad when Indy stole him from us, glad to see him back)

Option 2- Spend that early round draft capital on a LG instead. Billy Price would allow Perine to continue his development and take that sophomore leap. (I also like Perine, and although he performed so/so last year, I'm not ready to give up on him yet)

 

Obviously there are other options, but I'm assuming that our 1st pick is spent on BPA defensive player (Vea, Minkah, James, Edmunds, etc),

If I had my druthers of those 2 choices, I'd lean towards option 1. I haven't seen enough glowing reviews on Price to make me think that he's anything other than just another everyday run of the mill LG. I think Kalis has every bit as much potential. Perhaps you folks who really study the O-line could convince me otherwise..

I like Kalis too and was bummed like you were when we lost him for a time.  Was also really happy we got him back, although my enthusiasm is tempered a bit since he’s now been cut by two different teams (not that that necessarily means anything).  We have some options at G, and I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing in a cheap vet to shore up the position (like Bergstrom).  

 

Also with you that I’m not ready to write off Perine.  Seemed like the blocking was often poor for him and he struggled a bit figuring out how to switch up his running style between power and zone, which should improve with a better/healthier oline/TEs, and added experience.  He looked better as the season rolled on, often finding a way to pick up more yards than it seemed like he would.  

 

I will say that there’s a reason Kalis was a UDFA and Price is slated for the 2nd.

 

I’m torn on the issue because 1) we really need a fix to the run game, and 2) a better back/guard can affect both run and pass.  If Roullier is put next to just a so, so guard (or a so, so C), I worry that he’ll struggle more.  

 

Draft seems pretty deep for both interior oline and backs, but I’d really hate to miss out on a top back once again (from a really strong group).  Adding another ok/decent back isn’t going to cut it (we already have 2).  

 

So, as I said, I’m torn.  

 

Honestly, I just want a good draft at this point.  Don’t ignore BPA for need/reach for guys because of need.  I’ve said it before, but the FO is walking that fine line between win now and planning for the future.  Think they’ve done ok in this regard in FA (which is separate from saying they’ve been successful in FA), so I hope they can continue the tightrope walking through the draft.  If not, I’m hopeful they add some potential difference makers that look to be future studs.  

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43 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

It will be interesting to see how the FO looks at the two most likely options to improve our run game.

Option 1- let Kalis continue his growth and take over at LG, drafting a strong RB like Guice/Chubb will make his job a little easier. (I admit that I really like Kalis and was quite sad when Indy stole him from us, glad to see him back)

Option 2- Spend that early round draft capital on a LG instead. Billy Price would allow Perine to continue his development and take that sophomore leap. (I also like Perine, and although he performed so/so last year, I'm not ready to give up on him yet)

 

Obviously there are other options, but I'm assuming that our 1st pick is spent on BPA defensive player (Vea, Minkah, James, Edmunds, etc),

If I had my druthers of those 2 choices, I'd lean towards option 1. I haven't seen enough glowing reviews on Price to make me think that he's anything other than just another everyday run of the mill LG. I think Kalis has every bit as much potential. Perhaps you folks who really study the O-line could convince me otherwise..

 

I don't think the team thought so, since they cut him last year. If he was that highly regarded I'm sure the OL coach would have pounded the table to keep him.

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2 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

 

I don't think the team thought so, since they cut him last year. If he was that highly regarded I'm sure the OL coach would have pounded the table to keep him.

If I remember correctly, that was a HARD cut. Made with an intense desire to want to keep him, but needed the last Oline spot for someone who backup G and T (Catalina I think.) The talk here at the time was that Kalis was a much better G than T-cat but made to make the safe swing pick. I don't know why Indy released him, but I suspect it was to make roster room for an injury. It seems that we picked him back up immediately, so maybe there was a little table pounding going on.

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7 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

 

I really enjoy reading this kind of stuff, but after finally connecting to people doing real hefty research, building legit models, and really charting, I can't shake the feeling that scouts really are like the clowns in Brad Pitt's Moneyball. There was just an extraordinary amount of total nonsense in some of these takes. Some of them flat out wrong. Some clown thinks Guice is better than Barkley? Really? Another guy trash's Guice's work this past year? Hey genius, he was playing hurt THE WHOLE SEASON, of course he wasn't as good. Some guy talks up Ronald Jones as an inside runner, utterly laughable. He's one of the worst inside runners of the past three years, easy. Ridley's built like Amari Cooper? Really Ray Charles?

 

Just incredible stupidity being showcased. Reminds me of some of the idiocy you see at combine invites and non invites, Justin Watson, not invited, 6 foot 2, 215, 4.49 forty at his pro day since they didn't see fit to invite him to the freaking combine. 86th percentile 40 yard dash, 87th percentile burst score, 98th percentile dominator rating, 80th percentile breakout age, 90th percentile SPARQ-x, huge catch radius. Yep, give us another 10 guys from big 5 schools whose helmet logo is the reason for the invite and not the kid from Penn whose numbers basically go off like a daisy cutter and whose pro day beats about 85-90% of the pro day's of the actual freaking invites. Just clueless. 

 

It's quite revealing, I appreciate the ideas, and insights, but there is SO MUCH FLUFF and SO MUCH ERRONEOUS, total b.s. included it's ridiculous. 

 

Yeah, I feel you.  I think the best part about these quotes is the wide range of opinions you get from scout to scout.  It's easy to see how, even in the first round, the hit rate hovers just below 50%.

 

When it comes to Guice vs. Barkley, there are some draftniks out there, like Jon Ledyard, who have Guice ranked over Barkley.  It's obviously a minority opinion, but who can really say for sure until we see them at the next level?  I happen to agree with you and think it's easy to see Barkley is in a tier of his own, but two of the top backs in the league (Bell and David Johnson) were drafted on Day 2.  You just never know.

 

I know you weren't accusing McGinn of being played, but he left a comment that addresses some of your points when a reader accused him of that:

 

 
Quote

 

Bob McGinn
March 7, 2018 at 10:27 amREPLY 

PDC: Exhaustive source, right? Most of the people ranking players on TV or on the Internet have never coached or scouted a day in their life. It’s all just their opinion. Some work for networks or websites that are paid to promote the league. In other words, accentuate the positive. You always need to factor that in as well … I doubt you have much interest in my opinion on hundreds of players. So I leave it all up to those who have scouted, and in most cases for many years, in effect to rank the players for me … I have done this for almost 40 years. The scouts that agree to help me are helping me. Period. Their opinions are their own, and for whatever reason they share them openly and honestly. Part of it, I hope, is the respect I have for their profession and their years of experience and expertise. I also hope they appreciate the approach that I take … For example, every team in the league pretty much has the top six tight ends down pending pro days results. No matter what scouts were to tell me, they know full well their words can’t influence anyone else on another team. These teams all have 10 to 15 people dedicated to the college draft writing reports on hundreds of players. I also have quotes from scouts on all six of those tight ends. Now of those six, three or four will be players and two or three won’t. It’s just the way it goes. The teams that win get it right when it comes time to picking that TE more than the opposing team does. I’m trying to give you the give and take regarding those six tight ends. In a way, it’s an attempt to reach the league consensus … There’s no reason whatsoever for scouts to lie to me. People wouldn’t waste their time doing that to me, and I could tell easily enough and wouldn’t go back to them again. They know I will have talked to a large number of people by late April, anyway, and theirs is just one voice among many … This is an inexact science. You’re dealing with human beings and all their foibles. I always chuckle when readers make scouting out to be oh so easy. It is anything but easy … What this site provides is unvarnished opinions from those in the league that hope they’re right but also understand that they may be wrong. Everyone has been humbled many times before … You’re getting it straight from the horse’s mouth. You’re not getting it from wannabes that aren’t in the scouting profession … Getting played? I’m giving you a cross section of evaluations on players. What you choose to do with them is up to you … Scouts disagree violently in draft rooms leading up to the draft. I hope these capsules provide you with a look into those draft rooms and the varying opinions two people can and constantly do have on the same player … No one has the right answer all the time. The goal of our site is to take you, the subscriber, to places you cannot go. Please remember that if you think you have all the answers on some player. You probably don’t.

 

 

 

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Yeah, that was my big takeaway - looking at the pros and cons (as perceived by scouts) and finding little nuggets that you might have missed.  Doesn’t mean these guys are right or wrong, doesn’t mean we take the info/opinion at face value, but it’s just another (potential) piece to the puzzle.  

 

@The ConsigliereThe above isn’t directed at you of course, and I think you especially make a great point about  name/school recognition and the ‘dinosaur’ angle and the implication that it removes/ignores the analytics.  

 

By the way, how do you rank/grade Robert Foster (AL), (especially since he literally doesn’t have a ‘breakout age’)?

Edited by skinny21

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I don't know if I'm being influenced by the groupthink or what, but the more I think about and watch Tremaine Edmunds, the more I like him and see him as a tremendous value pick at 13.

 

It's funny, because during the season, I barely paid him any mind.  His brother Terrell seemed like the best player on that team to me, and Adonis Alexander was the best NFL prospect.  I even noticed and evaluated the MLB Motuapuaka.  I guess I wasn't really thinking Tremaine would go pro.

 

But now I'm getting a mancrush.  Outside of taking a QB, he feels like the real shoot for the moon pick for us.  He reminds me of Lavar.  Just a different kind of physical presence at the LB spot.  The size and natural strength of a Bernadrick McKinney but the movement skills of Kam Chancellor.  He gives you the trench warfare and ability to catch ballcarriers when they run between the tackles.  And he's even better when he gets to line up on the outside and blitz and run and hit.  So much foot speed and balance.

 

He's an unpolished gem.  Definite issues in awareness.  Little things like missing blockers and opening up his ribs when attacking downhill and getting walloped.  Biting on playfakes too frequently.  And there is a little bit of stiffness, reasonable given his height.  One of the rules I told myself I'd never forget is never trust a freak athlete linebacker who has questionable instincts/game awareness after getting burned by Ernie Sims, Aaron Curry, Bruce Carter, Keith Rivers, Akeem Ayers, etc.  Maybe add Jaylon Smith to that list.  But Anthony Barr is a damn good player now.  And LaVar was damn good too even though he had lousy instincts.  And I can't shake the feeling that a lot of Tremaine's issues can be explained by the fact he's 19 and that he's going to rapidly improve over the next few years.

 

And that we could be getting the next Barr with him.  I'm really starting to lean towards hoping he drops to 13 and that we take him.

He doesn't play with LaVar's ego and hero-mentality.  He plays within his system.  I think he's coachable.  And I see glimmers of a natural instinct for playmaking.  I think he can be a really special NFL player.

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The Redskins hosted two Virginia Tech players Thursday: defensive lineman Tim Settle and offensive lineman Wyatt Teller. Settle has drawn their interest for a while and could be a second- or third-round choice -- in Washington or somewhere. But he fits what the Redskins want: an interior lineman who can help vs. both the run and the pass. If they bypass a lineman in the first round, Settle would be a target in following rounds. Teller, who started at guard, is projected to go somewhere between the third and fifth rounds. His 2016 performance was better than last season, but the former is why he could go higher than anticipated. He's been on the Redskins' radar for some time as well.

 
i?img=%2Fi%2Fcolumnists%2Ffull%2Fkeim_john.png&w=80&h=80&scale=crop
John Keim, ESPN Staff Writer1h ago
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I just don't see the Shelton comparison for Vea as being valid.  Shelton was a natural and productive pass rusher at the position and Vea isn't.  And at any rate, Shelton's pass rushing prowess hasn't even translate to the NFL.  I think draftniks are overrating both Vea and the value of the position he plays because he looks so fearsome on the field and he ran so well at the combine.  He's good for a handful of plays where he sees what's coming and they single block him and he just sons the opposing lineman and takes the RB's head off.  But most of the time he has almost no impact on the play.  And he'll be playing limited snaps in the NFL anyway.  Is this really worth the 13th overall pick?

 

One of the pieces of conventional wisdom about positional value that still hasn't really been challenged and overturned is that defensive tackles are consistently overvalued.  There is certainly value in dependability and toughness against the run.  And there is real value in the versatility that a Solomon Thomas and a Ndamukong Suh give you.  But run-stuffing two down noses like Vea?  I'm trying to remember the last time one was picked high and ended up justifying the selection range.  This came up in 2015 when most of the fan base viewed Scherff as a reach over Leonard Williams.  I argued that players at Williams's position were overvalued and guards were undervalued because of the snap counts each play and the overall impact that each position has on team success.  Guards play every offensive snap, offer major value when they win individual matchups and don't need help, and are a key to controlling the line of scrimmage on each snap.  They can help establish your team's identity, much like Hutchinson did for Seattle, Martin does for Dallas, and Quenton Nelson did for Notre Dame this year. 

 

Despite the fear that he can inspire when you see him lined up across from you, I don't think Vea has or can have that kind of impact.

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Vea is that classic Mel Kiper pick on draft night. When he slides to the back half of the second he will sit there with egg on his face discussing how he has no idea how teams can pass on a sure fire bet like that. Must be some character concern that we have not heard about. I watched the tape and he is a first ballot hall of famer. Payne is more so hyped up due to one good game. So maddening. Vea very well could go top 10 and would not shock me if he did but people need to check themselves thinking he is going to be the end all to football at the position.

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18 hours ago, bh32 said:

I just don't know about taking a DB in the first..This team needs to be able to stop the run and a DB will do nothing to fix that problem..

 

Minkah isn't your average DB.  I feel weird seeming so sure about this, but he'd instantly be one of the best Nickel's against the run as a rookie.  He could also slide inside and play the Su'a Cravens role.

 

Granted, I feel you, it's not a fat boy up front that doesn't get blown off the line of scrimmage...but there's a chance someone is there at #44.  Like in the Dane Brugler mock with Harrison Phillips.

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12 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Minkah isn't your average DB.  I feel weird seeming so sure about this, but he'd instantly be one of the best Nickel's against the run as a rookie.  He could also slide inside and play the Su'a Cravens role.

 

He can also blitz and add to the pass rush.  It's one of those gravy items that to me are intriguing about both James and Fitzpatrick.  Years back, S. Springs led the team in sacks.  Fitzpatrick adds that kind of element which I know is a weird thing to say about corners but he's good at it.  

 

https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/sports/college/alabama/2016/09/28/fitzpatrick-adding-name-tides-sack-attack/91218200/

TUSCALOOSA — Opposing quarterbacks now have one more person to lose sleep over when facing Alabama.

As if defensive lineman Jonathan Allen and linebackers Tim Williams and Ryan Anderson hadn’t caused enough nightmares, the Crimson Tide can now add a new member to its vaunted pass rush.

Last week defensive back Minkah Fitzpatrick joined in Alabama’s passing attack, as he was credited with 11/2 sacks against Kent State.

Normally busy using his combination of speed and strength to battle opposing receivers at the Star position, Fitzpatrick got to show how deadly he can be coming in unblocked around the edge.

“It’s fun, it just adds to my versatility and my package,” Fitzpatrick said. “When I get to do what I don’t usually get to do, it’s a whole lot of fun.”

At 6-foot-1, 203 pounds, Fitzpatrick is the smallest player to register a sack for the Tide this season.

But don’t try telling that to opposing quarterbacks who have to deal with the defensive back coming at them at full speed.

“I know once he’s coming, he’s coming,” Alabama receiver Calvin Ridley said. “And he has a lot of heart, so he makes plays for the defense, and we’re grateful for it.”

Fitzpatrick ability to blitz gives opposing offenses one more thing to plan for when facing an already imposing defense. Kent State was able to limit the Tide’s primary pass rushers last week, holding Anderson, Williams and Allen to a combined one sack.

Before his first sack, Fitzpatrick went up to Allen and joked with the defensive lineman that he was going to pick up the slack.

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18 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I posted these in the thread last year, and it seemed to be popular, so here's this year's quotes from anonymous scouts about some of the premium prospects, written by Bob McGinn.  His rankings are a little weird, but it's really all about the quotes :).

 

I bolded the players who are constantly being talked about in this thread.

 

 

 

https://www.bobmcginnfootball.com/nfl-draft-22-players-second-round-possibilities/

 

I always enjoy reading this kind of stuff, thanks for posting it. 

 

That being said, there are a few things in there that stand out as completely bizarre to me. 

 

First is the Vea analysis. So he is compared to Shelton (though I agree with @stevemcqueen1 that Shelton was a better prospect coming out...better motor, better pass rusher, played with slightly better leverage); this is the same Danny Shelton who was basically a bust given how high he was drafted and was just traded to NE for about a ham sandwich after only 3 years in Cleveland? This guy should be taken top 10? This whole cult-like belief that every behemoth who can move well for his size and comes out of college needs to be drafted high, despite the poor history of it working, is so weird to me. So many people seem to think that this year's behemoth will totally be that magical run stuffing and pass rushing unicorn who will instantly transform their DL. Add in taking time off and that he seems disinclined to work very hard without tons of motivation and I say pass.

 

Next is Payne. Why are so many scouts insistent that his atrocious production should just be ignored? IMO it's just group-think. The hype machine decided after his bowl game performance that Payne was a monster and they've just stuck with it no matter what. "****ty production? Eh...ignore that, who cares?" Um, history cares. The history of interior DL guys in the NFL who had poor production in college is really really bad. IMO he's a JAG at the next level. Hard pass on him, thanks. 

 

Then there's Guice. I've searched all over and can't find a single instance where he's demonstrated off the field issues. Seems to go back to a little while ago when some rando scout from some rando company/site sent out a cryptic tweet saying he was getting texts about Guice's off the field issues that was giving him pause. He got inundated with people defending Guice and Guice himself was even like "wtf?". Sounds like people just trying to stir the pot and throwing **** at the wall to see if something sticks. That or they're trying to use their position as ostensible scouts to try and force him down the board for a certain team...which is highly unethical. 

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Fitz does help the run game immensely. He allows everyone in front of him to play downhill without fear of giving up the big play. Think about Seattle with Earl Thomas. Big corners, small fast LBers, smaller dline. Fast and attacking. Swearinger doesn't understand this because he's a **** Free and arrogant. People think a fat **** is going to solve everything in 15 plays a game aren't seeing the field. Sure, Hood and the McReplacements suck. 

 

I don't want a nose in the first, but would be cool with Payne later. No interest in VV. 

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7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The Redskins hosted two Virginia Tech players Thursday: defensive lineman Tim Settle and offensive lineman Wyatt Teller. Settle has drawn their interest for a while and could be a second- or third-round choice -- in Washington or somewhere. But he fits what the Redskins want: an interior lineman who can help vs. both the run and the pass. If they bypass a lineman in the first round, Settle would be a target in following rounds. Teller, who started at guard, is projected to go somewhere between the third and fifth rounds. His 2016 performance was better than last season, but the former is why he could go higher than anticipated. He's been on the Redskins' radar for some time as well.

 
i?img=%2Fi%2Fcolumnists%2Ffull%2Fkeim_john.png&w=80&h=80&scale=crop
John Keim, ESPN Staff Writer1h ago

Both are good players.  Would be happy with Settle in the 2nd round.

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Guice rd1

Settle or Phillips Rd 2

 

Those guys won't be available in Rd 3.

 

 

*Yes I know we don't have a 3rd rounder, just saying that's the consensus on where they're going.. I don't buy it. They'll be gone before  rd3 starts.

Edited by crabbypatty
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26 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Both are good players.  Would be happy with Settle in the 2nd round.

 

You've been wanting me to look at Settle, I'll get to it, haven't yet.  Keim has said multiple times he's on their radar so its definitely a possibility. 

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