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Presidential Election :11/3/2020- Trump the Impeached vs Superplanner Lizzie & some other Dems

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1 hour ago, ixcuincle said:

All I see is "Warren is solid on policy" yet we've been forgetting about Andrew Yang who is also solid on policy especially UBI

 

The Georgetown video is good as it outlines his plan for other segments other than UBI. Admittedly he is largely known for "Freedom dividend" but the guy also knows about foreign affairs and spoke about them in detail in multiple public forums. 

 

UBI is a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist, and most likely never will. 

 

Kamala Harris also has an initiative that is pretty close to being UBI and will be a much easier sell to the public. 

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2 hours ago, No Excuses said:

 

UBI is a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist, and most likely never will. 

 

Kamala Harris also has an initiative that is pretty close to being UBI and will be a much easier sell to the public. 

 

Well beyond the automation problem, UBI also provides a lot of benefits that I think it's still worthwhile. I don't think it's a 2020 policy though, we are still a little too far away from it being realistic. 

 

What are you referring to with Kamala? I'd be interested to read more on that. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Well beyond the automation problem, UBI also provides a lot of benefits that I think it's still worthwhile. I don't think it's a 2020 policy though, we are still a little too far away from it being realistic. 

 

What are you referring to with Kamala? I'd be interested to read more on that. 

 

 

Linked here is a good explainer on it:

 

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2018/10/19/17995374/kamala-harris-lift-act-basic-income-cash-eitc

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3 hours ago, No Excuses said:

 

UBI is a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist, and most likely never will. 

 

Kamala Harris also has an initiative that is pretty close to being UBI and will be a much easier sell to the public. 

 

The issue exists and has already been going on right now. In fact Bernie Sanders recently went on a rant saying that UBI is important so he's begun to latch onto the bandwagon too. It's a necessity because automation will take our jobs and severely restrict the labor market. companies will hire less people and have been doing so since the 1970's. 

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3 hours ago, No Excuses said:

 

UBI is a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist, and most likely never will. 

 

Kamala Harris also has an initiative that is pretty close to being UBI and will be a much easier sell to the public. 

 

One the first point, I don't agree and think that opinion comes from a place of thinking UBI is there and/or solely there to replace a job, which it isn't.   Whether the problem is coming soon enough to make it a major 2020 issue? Probably not.

 

As far as the comment on Kamala Harris policy, I haven't read up on it yet. 

Edited by NoCalMike

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37 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

 

I think that might be really big news, if I could be sure it was true. 

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23 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

Dude needs to come up with some better answers.

 

Yes, expecting Republicans to do the right thing is a non-starter.

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22 hours ago, No Excuses said:

 

UBI is a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist, and most likely never will. 

 

Kamala Harris also has an initiative that is pretty close to being UBI and will be a much easier sell to the public. 

 

 

Edited by ixcuincle
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Also FYI UBI has been proposed by other economists such as Milton Friedman as well as leaders like MLK Jr. The US Congress almost passed UBI in the 60's before the Democrats said the UBI amount was not enough. 

 

This has been proposed for decades. It's starting to get traction now because of the current threat of automation. This is not something that will happen in the future or something that is "not a problem". It is happening NOW. Truckers are losing their jobs NOW. Automation is affecting retail and food services NOW. 

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9 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

It is happening NOW. Truckers are losing their jobs NOW. Automation is affecting retail and food services NOW. 

 

Job automation seems to be another issue where "if it doesn't touch me personally, I am just going to act like it isn't happening" for a lot of folks.

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Because most of us have college degrees or grad degrees or stable jobs. This is about NORMAL america. This is about truckers, retail, and manufacturing that will be put out of work by automation. 

 

Anyone wary of Yang or his policies or UBI should definitely read his book. He arguing that we are hiring LESS people than we did in the 1970's, and backs it up with economic numbers. Also, an alarming statistic he points out in his book is while the US has a low unemployment rate, that unemployment rate is not an accurate indicator because it doesn't count underemployed or the people who just stopped looking. He says that many people have just given up on trying to find a job, and that is not good for society. With the potential of mass layoffs (already happened this week at a trucking company) due to AI making human jobs less and less necessary, this is not some issue that can be glossed over or ignored. 

 

Even if Yang doesn't win the nomination, Sanders is already starting to advocate this. All we need is for him to be on the stage to get a higher platform to raise awareness. If he doesn't win, other candidates will hopefully address this issue. As long as a Democrat realizes this is a problem and suggests UBI or "Freedom Dividend", it's fine by me. Because it's not about me or the "free money". It's about helping most of working class America who is in danger right now. 

Edited by ixcuincle
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Most of "working class america" thinks UBI is just straight up "socialism," which they have been conditioned to reject.  

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The US economy is pumping jobs at a stable rate and we increasingly have a deficit of workers in skilled jobs. 

 

Giving people UBI when the education infrastructure is completely broken will do nothing but put people on social safety nets with no way to escape. 

 

I am all for more anti-poverty measures but give me a break. A substantial chunk of this country has zero need for UBI.

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We need illegal and legal immigration, yet need a UBI because there will be no jobs?

 

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33 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

The US economy is pumping jobs at a stable rate and we increasingly have a deficit of workers in skilled jobs. 

 

Giving people UBI when the education infrastructure is completely broken will do nothing but put people on social safety nets with no way to escape. 

 

 

As a country we can definitely shift how we prepare children for the "new economy" but what do you do for the adults already in the labor force that are being displaced?  Are you suggesting they are going to be able to school and learn the bare minimum needed to change industry and corporations will view them as viable as a young 20-something fresh out of college?

 

Also, the whole "pumping out jobs" is a bit of a misdirection.  The company I work for is constantly growing, expanding the need for employees.  So that would match with what your first point is.  The problem is, many of these jobs, including some aspects of my own position will be wiped away by automation. 

 

Last year we had a team meeting about the company bringing in "bots" to start trying to tackle some of the more menial job tasks.  There will be engineers sitting with us, learning the job, figuring out what code they can write into the bots to make sure they are equipped to do the job correct.  Now of course we get the usual, "don't worry, these aren't here to take your job" company line, and to a certain extent that is true because there are certain tasks that current technology can't automate, but what those bots can do is wipe away so much of the "busy work" that the overall workforce can be reduced by a lot and the people left will be tackling what the bots can't. 

 

You have to look at the economy in terms of pre-automation and post-automation.  The jobs being created now are going to go away, it doesn't matter that in 2019 we need more office workers or bookkeepers.  Hell, we could hire 500,000 more over the next decade and it will look great, until automation comes in the following year and eliminates all those jobs plus half the workforce that was employed before the hiring spree. 

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In time my opinion may change once we know more but right now people like Harris and Warren are establishment candidates. Forgive me if I'm wary of the establishment and people who've already been in our government. These are sanitized candidates proposing nothing out of the ordinary. People who want to break out of the mold like Sanders and even Yang are not given attention (notice how Yang is not mentioned on CNN or MSNBC and both networks automatically assume Kamela is the nominee despite it being a 20 or so man "Royal Rumble" atm) :wacko:

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Shes right though. Its hard to believe anything else if you use facts and what hes says to help determine that. 

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3 hours ago, twa said:

We need illegal and legal immigration, yet need a UBI because there will be no jobs?

 

 

The illegal and legal immigrants are here to do the jobs the UBI people don’t want to do

 

 

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