Rdskns2000

Elecciones Presidenciales 11/3/2020- Meltdown Manchild Donny vs Superplanner Lizzie & some other Dems

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2 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Yes and no and maybe. The 12th and 22nd amendment would come into play here. However, the language of the 22nd says elected, so it's conceivable that the legal interpretation would be that Obama could assume Biden's office a*of being POTUS until the end of that term. 

 

 

I was wondering that too, if it disqualified Obama from being the VP.  Of course....maybe it would just mean he couldn't assume the role of President and it would fall to........Pelosi?

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8 hours ago, Simmsy said:

Hopefully, the next president and congress will put measures in place to make sure this never happens again. This only proves to me that the Constitution is just a flimsy piece of paper with no teeth.

 

This is why he needs to be punished for what's in the Mueller Report prior to 2020 because this guy will absolutely try something nefarious again.  He openly said he would.

 

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37 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:
Don't know why cities ain't asking for the money first at this point.

 

Well, apparently they won't pay their water bill at the White House either.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I was wondering that too, if it disqualified Obama from being the VP.  Of course....maybe it would just mean he couldn't assume the role of President and it would fall to........Pelosi?

 

The 22nd only limits the number of times a person is eligible to be elected to the Presidency.

 

I'd suspect the legal interpretation of it means someone could fill a vacancy (such as through the VP stepping in) and that wouldn't violate the 22nd. He/she just could just not get elected as President more than twice. 

 

Bur it's not like any POTUS will ever accept being the VP after their two terms are up.

Edited by The Evil Genius

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2 hours ago, Cooked Crack said:

Don't know why cities ain't asking for the money first at this point.

 

Don't provide the support. Let Trump bring in his own people to protect his sorry ass.

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20 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Don't provide the support. Let Trump bring in his own people to protect his sorry ass.

Problem is Trump rallies can get really violent. If the Secret Service is making recommendations and you don't follow and something goes wrong you're going to end up looking like the asshole.

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17 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

There is no evidence dude cares about working class whites which is what his front runner status is based. No evidence that they would turn out to support him either.  If that were the case, he gets more than .9% in the 2008 Iowa caucus. And the Obama campaign considered dumping Biden for the 2012 presidential election, so I’m not sure how much they really needed him.

 

Oh, I definitely disagree with this.  Joe Biden is Mr. Hardscrabble Scranton Working Class Guy.  That's like his whole thing.  And, I guess, your opinion that there is "no evidence" that white working class people would support him is hard at this point in the race.  All of the polls show him crushing everyone else, including among white people.  See http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/04/29/rel6a.-.2020.democrats.pdf showing that he has double the support of white people than any other candidate.  A lot of that is name recognition right now, but Bernie also has 100% name recognition and got less than half of Biden's support among white people (and obviously gets crushed 50-14 with non-whites).  I don't think pointing to one caucus in 2008 does much to prove your point.  It's pretty clear that much or most of Biden's support is based on 2008-2016.  

 

Mostly, I'm sad to see so many people that don't just prefer someone else to Biden, but have been convinced that they must hate Biden.  That's ridiculous.  Smells a lot like the Sander's camp view of Clinton in 2016.  They didn't just support their preferred candidate, they convinced themselves that the person winning was legitimately evil.  Another hallmark was to claim that the other candidates obvious strengths were either vastly overblown, didn't matter, or the opposite was actually true.  Trump used/uses the same tactics, he'll be calling Elizabeth Warren stupid very soon, if he hasn't already.  

11 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

So what happens if Biden wins the nomination and picks.................................

 

Obama as VP?

 

Obama says "no thanks Joe" and continues living his awesome post-presidency life.

 

Full disclosure, Obama works in my building.  

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13 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Oh, I definitely disagree with this.  Joe Biden is Mr. Hardscrabble Scranton Working Class Guy.  That's like his whole thing.  And, I guess, your opinion that there is "no evidence" that white working class people would support him is hard at this point in the race.  All of the polls show him crushing everyone else, including among white people.  See http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/04/29/rel6a.-.2020.democrats.pdf showing that he has double the support of white people than any other candidate.  A lot of that is name recognition right now, but Bernie also has 100% name recognition and got less than half of Biden's support among white people (and obviously gets crushed 50-14 with non-whites).  I don't think pointing to one caucus in 2008 does much to prove your point.  It's pretty clear that much or most of Biden's support is based on 2008-2016.  

Did you not read my post? I said there is no evidence Biden cares for the white working class or any working class. He has done nothing in his career for white working class people except saying no to school busing and school integration.

 

Quote

 

Mostly, I'm sad to see so many people that don't just prefer someone else to Biden, but have been convinced that they must hate Biden.  That's ridiculous.  Smells a lot like the Sander's camp view of Clinton in 2016.  They didn't just support their preferred candidate, they convinced themselves that the person winning was legitimately evil.  Another hallmark was to claim that the other candidates obvious strengths were either vastly overblown, didn't matter, or the opposite was actually true.  Trump used/uses the same tactics, he'll be calling Elizabeth Warren stupid very soon, if he hasn't already.  

This is an insulting statement. I don't hate Biden and I don't think anyone here has said they hated Biden. What people are upset about with Biden is he is out of touch and lead us down the path for Trump. Why do we want to go back to that? 

 

Most of us would vote for an empty chair over Trump in 2020, but the issue is getting the right leader after the primary. Not doing the 2016 thing again and anointing someone which is what it seems some want.

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Question though:  Wasn't it debunked that working class whites voted for Trump due to concerns about jobs? Didn't it end up actually having to do more with white fragility over brown folks "invading the country" and Trump pretending like he was going to be the great white hope of a leader to put an end to it?  If that is the case, at least for a good portion of them, then what makes anyone think these same people are now going to abandon the Mr Build That Wall?  You look at all these focus group panels of 2016 Trump voters and they are outright admitting Trump either lied to them or did nothing to help with jobs in their regions, yet they are still hesitant to even entertain the idea of voting for a Democrat. 

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46 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

 

Mostly, I'm sad to see so many people that don't just prefer someone else to Biden, but have been convinced that they must hate Biden.  .....

 

That seems to have become the standard in both parties. 

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17 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Did you not read my post? I said there is no evidence Biden cares for the white working class or any working class. He has done nothing in his career for white working class people except saying no to school busing and school integration.

 

I read it.  There is plenty of evidence, you just don't want to acknowledge it because it runs counter to the narrative you've accepted.  

 

17 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

This is an insulting statement. I don't hate Biden and I don't think anyone here has said they hated Biden. What people are upset about with Biden is he is out of touch and lead us down the path for Trump. Why do we want to go back to that? 

 

Most of us would vote for an empty chair over Trump in 2020, but the issue is getting the right leader after the primary. Not doing the 2016 thing again and anointing someone which is what it seems some want.

 

It certainly seems like you hate him, based on your myriad posts attacking him on specious grounds.  I mean, really?  He led us down the path for Trump?  That's quite a stretch.  

 

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7 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Question though:  Wasn't it debunked that working class whites voted for Trump due to concerns about jobs? Didn't it end up actually having to do more with white fragility over brown folks "invading the country" and Trump pretending like he was going to be the great white hope of a leader to put an end to it?  If that is the case, at least for a good portion of them, then what makes anyone think these same people are now going to abandon the Mr Build That Wall?  You look at all these focus group panels of 2016 Trump voters and they are outright admitting Trump either lied to them or did nothing to help with jobs in their regions, yet they are still hesitant to even entertain the idea of voting for a Democrat. 

 

I think treating "working class whites" as a monolith is a problematic premise to start.  Probably some of them had legitimate "economic anxiety."  Probably a lot more voted based on white fragility, fanned on a daily basis by the Fox News ecosystem.  To the same end, probably a lot of those voters are upset that they gave Trump a chance based on what he said and that he wasn't able to follow through on most of it and, instead, gave rich people a huge tax cut.  Probably a lot more just like that Trump is definitely on their side, only cares about them, will attack every other group on their behalf, and makes all the right noises that get them wet, even if his policies actually hurt them.  

 

Baby boomers are the generation of feels.  Trump makes them feel good, generally by attacking "the other."

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4 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

Bur it's not like any POTUS will ever accept being the VP after their two terms are up.

 

Vp is a worthless position. Why would Obama do that? He’s set for life. He’ll have no influence, just as Biden probably had no influence.

 

its the reason why I don’t put much behind the idea of a Biden/Warren ticket. Shell have no influence unless Biden decides to break from tradition but he won’t, no one wants their administration to be dictated by someone else. 

 

Ideally the vp would matter and have influence. From what I can tell they only matter for polls to win elections. 

13 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Question though:  Wasn't it debunked that working class whites voted for Trump due to concerns about jobs?

 

Depends on who you listen too. The left certainly phrases it that way. It’s convenient for them to do so. Their inability to get their support becomes not their fault - it becomes the fault of racists and “we don’t want their support anyway”

 

listening to people i know that are are members of unions... construction workers... the Hillary campaign never reached out them but the trump campaign did, in addition the sentiment was along the lines of “we’ve been supporting this party for decades and look where it has gotten us”

 

those thoughts came from people i know that didn’t vote for trump, but we’re telling me what was going on in their union meetings, emails/newsletters, etc. 

 

i dont know that approaching 2020 with “the white working class union people didn’t support us because they’re afraid of or hate brown people” is a good tactic. They already seem to not like the dems at the moment for valid reasons, don’t imagine calling them racists will help. 

 

Though thats sort of been the tactic since the 2016 election so maybe the damage is done. 

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25 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

I read it.  There is plenty of evidence, you just don't want to acknowledge it because it runs counter to the narrative you've accepted.  

My narrative is that Biden has done nothing to help working class people. I asked for evidence otherwise and you cited poll figures from a few weeks ago.

 

26 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

It certainly seems like you hate him, based on your myriad posts attacking him on specious grounds.  I mean, really?  He led us down the path for Trump?  That's quite a stretch.  

I don't hate Joe Biden. I have said that several times. I don't like his policies or how disingenuous he is, but I don't hate him. if I hated him, I wouldn't say that I would vote for him over Trump, which I have many times over.

34 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

then what makes anyone think these same people are now going to abandon the Mr Build That Wall?

Because they won't.

 

This is why running with someone who wants the status quo won't help. You have to run with someone who will excite new voters. Stop courting Trump's base.

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24 minutes ago, tshile said:

Depends on who you listen too. The left certainly phrases it that way. It’s convenient for them to do so. Their inability to get their support becomes not their fault - it becomes the fault of racists and “we don’t want their support anyway”

I will not defend HIllary's terrible campaign, but this is not a true statement based on the many studies of this. Its not about the left making themselves feel good but actual research done by scholars.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

My narrative is that Biden has done nothing to help working class people. I asked for evidence otherwise and you cited poll figures from a few weeks ago.

 

You didn't ask for evidence, you said there is no evidence.  I'm not doing your homework for you.  You also said that there is , quote, "No evidence that they [white working class peole] would turn out to support him either" and THAT is what i cited poll figures for, because they do directly refute that statement.  

 

Quote

 

I don't hate Joe Biden. I have said that several times. I don't like his policies or how disingenuous he is, but I don't hate him. if I hated him, I wouldn't say that I would vote for him over Trump, which I have many times over.

 

You can hate two people and prefer one over the other.  Your posts certainly convey that you hate the guy because they are constant and, IMO, way over the top.  You can say you don't like his policies without saying things like "He led us down the path for Trump" and "dude stands for nothing and will be out of here really early."  All of this sounds unfortunately similar to what i get from my Bernie-centric acquaintances, who will tear down anybody that isn't Bernie using the most ridiculous arguments. 

Edited by PleaseBlitz

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23 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I will not defend HIllary's terrible campaign, but this is not a true statement based on the many studies of this. Its not about the left making themselves feel good but actual research done by scholars.

Well that actual research doesn’t align with what people in the rooms when the conversations are held are saying. 

 

Granted, my view is limited to the area I live in. 

 

Either way, doesn’t seem like a good tactic to keep saying white working class turned on dems because they’re racists. You need them to win elections. 

 

Or or maybe you don’t. You needed them last time and didn’t get them but that doesn’t mean that’s how 2020 will go. 

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

You didn't ask for evidence, you said there is no evidence.  I'm not doing your homework for you.  You also said that there is , quote, "No evidence that they [white working class peole] would turn out to support him either" and THAT is what i cited poll figures for, because they do directly refute that statement. 

And outside of not wanting busing to help with school integration, Biden hasn't done much to help the white working class or any working class person. He lives in effing Delaware which is a corporate haven. That's who he works to help. If you have something to let me see it. Most of the work he is proud of hasn't helped working class people.

 

35 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

You can hate two people and prefer one over the other.

ok dawg, I don't hate Joe Biden.

12 minutes ago, tshile said:

Granted, my view is limited to the area I live in. 

And that is my point. Look beyond. You can get on google and search for white working-class voters and economic anxiety and see actual studies were done that show it wasn't the deciding factor.

 

12 minutes ago, tshile said:

Either way, doesn’t seem like a good tactic to keep saying white working class turned on dems because they’re racists.

But the studies show...

 

Edited by BenningRoadSkin

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

And outside of not wanting busing to help with school integration, Biden hasn't done much to help the white working class or any working class person. He lives in effing Delaware which is a corporate haven. That's who he works to help. If you have something to let me see it. Most of the work he is proud of hasn't helped working class people.

 

I take it you actually know essentially nothing about DE and voting.

 

Delaware is mostly working class people and generally pro-labor and Democratic, and the areas that are Republican/lean right are mostly rural (southern DE).  The corporate component of DE is the very north corner and most of the people that work associated with those corporations don't live there (they live in PA, NJ, or even MD).  There is not a large corporate American voters component to DE, and the corporate HQs for companies are in DE, but there generally isn't a very large footprint for those companies.  It isn't like there is a lot of CEOs, CFOs, etc. or general upper corporate echelon people living in DE.

 

The northern/corporate area is important in terms of the economics of DE and so has affected his votes, (And even that doesn't affect his votes too much because his votes are on the national level and not the state level.  Nothing he is voting on too much is affecting the corporate HQs in DE), but not really in terms of the voters so he has a good and long track record of winning the votes of working class voters and rural conservatives. 

 

I've already said I don't want him to be President, but he also has a reasonably good track record on things like supporting organized labor, increases in minimum wages (I don't think he's ever voted against a minimum wage increase), worker safety, etc.

 

And even on things like the change in bankruptcy law that he's given a hard time for, he worked to help make changes to it to make it better for working class people (before voting for it).  Biden is a bit of the classical let's make a deal politician with I'll vote for your legislation that may or may not pass without my vote, if you'll make these changes to it and/or vote for this for me.

 

So he's ended up with some not good votes (and some votes I disagree with).

Edited by PeterMP
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17 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

And that is my point. Look beyond. You can get on google and search for white working-class voters and economic anxiety and see actual studies were done that show it wasn't the deciding factor.

Yeah I’ve seen plenty of them. Not all. I don’t know that I agree with how some of them arrived at their opinions. And I realize that there definitely are people that are exactly what those reports say. 

 

And anyone whose involved in anything specific knows sometimes researchers (and definitely media) get things really wrong. For instance, I’d put value on research done by working with the actual people as opposed to gleaning reason based on statistics about those people (like income, education, etc)

 

All i I can tell you is that the people I know have a different story to tell about the unions they’re in and why things changed. And the people telling me these stories are Democrats that didn’t, and never would, vote for trump. 

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19 hours ago, visionary said:

 

 

Is it just me, or do people really not care as much about Dreamers as the media would have you believe?

 

I mean, I sympathize, but it's not in the top 25 issues I would vote on.

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