NPR: Behind Fox News' Baseless Seth Rich Story: The Untold Tale

[TradeTheBeal!]

7 minutes ago, Destino said:

Outrage over politicians lying?  Yeah I'm not even a little bit outraged over this.  It's pathetic, but it's expected and I've known Trump is into conspiracy theories since the campaign.  Julian Assange deserves golden troll award for this one.

 

I was outraged when Trump fired Comey for not pledging his loyalty.  Abuse of power is one thing, but there is no public trust in political leaders being honest.  We expect them to lie and in this one are, they rarely let us down.  

 

 

 

Generally, our politicians are far, far more honest and accountable than pundits...far-right pundits in particular.  Buying into the old "all politicians are crooks" schtick demonstrates your fealty to the propaganda, albeit somewhat unwittingly.

9 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I'm with @Destinoon this.  Feigned outrage over media and politicians lying?  

 

Perfect example from the "Webb Hubbell" guy.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Let me expand...If you really, really believe that Sean Hannity, Jesse Watters and Ann Coulter are more honest and accountable than John Kasich, Tim Kaine and Bernie Sanders then your mind has been utterly conquered by disinformation.

 

Youre ****ing toast and you know it.

[@DCGoldPants]

 

Over/Under # of days this is proven to be a complete lie? - 4

[No Excuses]

Just now, @SkinsGoldPants said:

Over/Under # of days this is proven to be a complete lie? - 4

 

Considering Trump's lapdog Hannity ran this story like it was 9-11, it already is a proven lie that this WH wasn't aware of it. 

 

Every propaganda outlet on Fox that Trump obsessively watches covered it.

[@DCGoldPants]

Just now, No Excuses said:

 

Considering Trump's lapdog Hannity ran this story like it was 9-11, it already is a proven lie that this WH wasn't aware of it. 

 

Every propaganda outlet on Fox that Trump obsessively watches covered it.

 

I used to wonder if Hannity took direction from Trump. Thinking it might be the other way around.

[Spaceman Spiff]

11 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Generally, our politicians are far, far more honest and accountable than pundits...far-right pundits in particular.  Buying into the old "all politicians are crooks" schtick demonstrates your fealty to the propaganda, albeit somewhat unwittingly.

 

Perfect example from the "Webb Hubbell" guy.

 

Oh calm down.  Can't make a crack about Chelsea Clinton's real baby daddy without you getting all butthurt about it?  

[No Excuses]

4 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Oh calm down.  Can't make a crack about Chelsea Clinton's real baby daddy without you getting all butthurt about it?  

 

Why are you in this thread? 

 

You seem to love coming into political threads and acting above it and contributing nothing. Compensating for something?

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Oh calm down.  Can't make a crack about Chelsea Clinton's real baby daddy without you getting all butthurt about it?  

 

It demonstrates the source of your knowledge and opinions.  You may think you're apathetic and independent, but if you're repeating garbage from world net daily or the national enquirer, then somewhere along the way you've been polluted by their propaganda.

[Burgold]

26 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I'm with @Destinoon this.  Feigned outrage over media and politicians lying?  

Media members lying is a pretty big deal. It was in every journalistic job I ever had. It's one thing to get a story wrong, but to invent a story and pass it off as news. That's really horrific.

 

That's not journalism and 90% of journalistic outlets wouldn't stand for it. OTOH, only one news organization has in the entire history of the United States gone to court to argue for the argue to lie. FOX News. Honestly, the right wing media is a different animal than any other news org that leans left, middle, or right. We are seeing a bifurcation. There are news outlets and propaganda outlets.

 

Then there are weird animals like MSNBC and CNN which are analysis outlets since they cover the news, comment on it, but do almost no reporting or investigation.

[TradeTheBeal!]

12 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Oh calm down.  Can't make a crack about Chelsea Clinton's real baby daddy without you getting all butthurt about it?  

 

You werent joking, you were troliing and you were following your programming.

[LadySkinsFan]

19 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Oh calm down.  Can't make a crack about Chelsea Clinton's real baby daddy without you getting all butthurt about it?  

 

And supposedly Hillary is a Lesbian too. So if she's not having sex with Bill, she's having sex with some other guy? 

 

You guys are still attacking Hillary. How many more decades must she endure witch hunts? 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just now, TryTheBeal! said:

 

You werent joking, you were troliing and you were following your programming.

 

Man, there's nothing like people telling you what you meant.  Jesus Christ.  TTB, anyone who disagrees with you must be "programmed" eh?

 

For the record, I don't think Chelsea Clinton is Web Hubbell and Hillary Clinton's love child.  Just because I don't love the liberals as much as you do certainly doesn't mean I love the conservatives.  And I don't mind making fun of them, either.  Nothing wrong with joking about stuff like that.  To me, anyway.

 

3 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Media members lying is a pretty big deal. It was in every journalistic job I ever had. It's one thing to get a story wrong, but to invent a story and pass it off as news. That's really horrific.

 

That's not journalism and 90% of journalistic outlets wouldn't stand for it. OTOH, only one news organization has in the entire history of the United States gone to court to argue for the argue to lie. FOX News. Honestly, the right wing media is a different animal than any other news org that leans left, middle, or right. We are seeing a bifurcation. There are news outlets and propaganda outlets.

 

Then there are weird animals like MSNBC and CNN which are analysis outlets since they cover the news, comment on it, but do almost no reporting or investigation.

 

Explained better than anyone else could have.  Thanks for clarifying.

 

Yet, I'm still not horrified by it, partially because it's Fox News and partially because it's Trump.  Those who do seem to be horrified by it and outraged over it would appear to believe that people are being "brainwashed" or, as TTB likes to say "programmed".  Which is somewhat fair, but it's not like those people can be "saved" either.  They don't want to be.  They don't like your views and don't want to agree with you.  

 

Again, not horrified by it because it seems like the natural progression of our society decaying.  And while I don't LIKE that it happened, hopping around on the Tailgate and wanting to agree with everyone who finds it horrifying doesn't fix anything.  Don't confuse my apathy for an endorsement of Fox News lying (although plenty of you will because I'm not beating my chest about it.  Because these days if you're not beating your chest about something you don't like, you're in agreement with the other side).

 

Want to fix it?  Don't tune in.  Drop it from your cable package (but then you'd probably have to drop other channels that you like, too). Boycott the companies that advertise on their network.  Write them letters, telling them you're not buying their products until they pull from advertising there altogether.  Don't click on their website.    IIRC, boycotting worked when O'Reilly got kicked off.  Why not just continue to do it?  Maybe this story isn't as salacious as O'Reilly trying to cop a feel on an intern but it's worth discussing if you REALLY hate it that much.  

 

10 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

Why are you in this thread? 

 

You seem to love coming into political threads and acting above it and contributing nothing. Compensating for something?

 

Hmm?  Nope, just agreed with Destino on a decent point that he made.  

10 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

It demonstrates the source of your knowledge and opinions.  You may think you're apathetic and independent, but if you're repeating garbage from world net daily or the national enquirer, then somewhere along the way you've been polluted by their propaganda.

 

Oh for ****s sake.  Take a joke.  Again, I don't think Chelsea is the love child of Hillary and Web Hubbell.  

 

(But I think it'd be hilarious if she was)

[PF Chang]

Serious question, not trying to be a dick: for those being dismissive of this story, did you actually read the article? This seems more significant than standard political dishonesty. Coordination with the White House on a fake story that suggests Clinton is a murderer? Not exactly Trump stretching the truth on the unemployment rate. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Thread troll and hijack accomplished.

Play victim card.

 

 

#programming

[Bozo the kKklown]

Only in this day and time can people not be horrified by a willfully false story purported by a major news network and the White House, surrounding someones murder being used as political football to distract from an investigation regarding how the president of the united states worked with a foreign country to get elected. You guys are so far gone its not even worth trying to grab you at this point.

[DCranon21]

This is all the way ****ed up. I'll say this, anyone who watches Fox News you just can't take serious. At least MSNBC does have conservative commentators that will give their side of the conservative side with rebuttals. Wow...

[Destino]

4 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Generally, our politicians are far, far more honest and accountable than pundits...far-right pundits in particular.  Buying into the old "all politicians are crooks" schtick demonstrates your fealty to the propaganda, albeit somewhat unwittingly.

All politicians are not crooks, but they're all liars.  The political game centers on deceit.  They have to convince voters that they represent our interests while at the same time working round the clock to appease their more powerful backers whose interests conflict with the electorate in general.  What distinguishes Trump from others when it comes to dishonesty is that he's spectacularly bad at it.  Not just bad at the actual telling of lies himself, but how to lie in the political sense.  Instead of using surrogates smartly, most of his bull**** is always traced right back to his administration.  

 

Practice apparently does not make perfect. 

 

 

[Destino]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Well I think it's outrageous that Trump's directing coverage at a major news network and having them publish lies to distract the public from his own scandals.  I think it's outrageous that one of the largest news networks in the country is a full blown propaganda network, not just for the political right, but for his administration specifically.

 

For better or worse, Fox is trusted by a huge portion of the public.  Surely it's an outrage that Fox continuously abuses that trust and degenerates their audience.  It ****s over the rest of us too because it turns them into stupid voters.

 

I think major media networks being too close to politicians is the natural result of mutual interest and if we could really pull back the curtain we'd see that it's fairly common.  Journalists with inside information get more attention and make more money.  Politicians benefit from having a way to get stories that advance their interests out into the news cycle.  That sort of natural quid pro quo with no regulation of any kind (and I am absolutely not arguing that there should be) is IMO bound to result in a situation where the news is largely a political tool.  

 

Fox is just the most obvious about it.  They can afford to be, being that republicans are all 100% convinced that all media that disagrees with them is fake news. 

[Going Commando]

11 minutes ago, Destino said:

 

I think major media networks being too close to politicians is the natural result of mutual interest and if we could really pull back the curtain we'd see that it's fairly common.  Journalists with inside information get more attention and make more money.  Politicians benefit from having a way to get stories that advance their interests out into the news cycle.  That sort of natural quid pro quo with no regulation of any kind (and I am absolutely not arguing that there should be) is IMO bound to result in a situation where the news is largely a political tool.  

 

Fox is just the most obvious about it.  They can afford to be, being that republicans are all 100% convinced that all media that disagrees with them is fake news. 

 

I think the conservative media is unique in its service as a propaganda ministry.  I don't think any other major network has or would knowingly push a wag the dog fake news story upon the direction of the White House.  Not since the television was invented anyway.

 

The right wing media takes partisanship/quid pro quos with their Republican sources to the new level of full blown propaganda.  They knowingly push lies for their benefit.  There is no institutional separation from the GoP whatsoever.

 

The day that this kind of media is actually ubiquitous--that there is an equal and opposite propaganda ministry working for the Left--this country will be lost.

[Destino]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think the conservative media is unique in its service as a propaganda ministry.  I don't think any other major network has or would knowingly push a wag the dog fake news story upon the direction of the White House.  Not since the television was invented anyway.

 

The right wing media takes partisanship/quid pro quos with their Republican sources to the new level of full blown propaganda.  They knowingly push lies for their benefit.  There is no institutional separation from the GoP whatsoever.

 

The day that this kind of media is actually ubiquitous--that there is an equal and opposite propaganda ministry working for the Left--this country will be lost.

 

You're right.  I shouldn't have said Fox is just the most obvious, they're that and more.  I think they are also the most closely linked to the national party. 

[Burgold]

50 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Yet, I'm still not horrified by it, partially because it's Fox News and partially because it's Trump.  Those who do seem to be horrified by it and outraged over it would appear to believe that people are being "brainwashed" or, as TTB likes to say "programmed".  Which is somewhat fair, but it's not like those people can be "saved" either.  They don't want to be.  They don't like your views and don't want to agree with you.  

I don't know, Spiff. I find apathy quite unsettling. Once we accept this as the new normal we lose. What's worse is that there's every chance that they'll seek to lower the floor again.

This is not "normal." It's not really okay. All sides do not do this.

 

You are correct that what we can do at the micro level is change our viewing habits. I don't have cable. I watch it at the gym. I get my sense of the cable news world via social media (which I always hope provides me with a funhouse distorted view). For the first time, we are seeing MSNBC beat FOX in ratings not for a day or a segment, but for a week. I don't know that that's a victory as MSNBC can be pretty icky in its own right.

 

But in any case, acceptance, bowing your head, and surrendering to a compromise of ethics or an absolute discard of mores is a bad thing. It's a horrifying thing. It's something that Rush, Coulter, FOX, and all the rest of them have been diligently working towards, because once you think there is no difference between Clark Kent and Lex Luthor you are content with Luthor being President. 

 

And that's what's happened. We elected Lex Luthor. And now, they want us to nod along like sheep, pretend everything is normal, and give them free reign. What you have to keep in mind, even if you are not horrified by this, is that they will always get bolder. If they can get away with A, B, and C... they will be fine going after Z.

[TheGreatBuzz]

Well the WH wouldnt even be involved if the Left didnt put up the worst candidate in history.  They have themselves to blame for the Trump presidency, not Fox News.  You can read about it in her emails if you can find them.

 

 

Benghazi.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Perfection.

[LadySkinsFan]

Popular vote.

[tshile]

I'm not going to equate a major fox news host pushing a made up story about a Democrat (and presidential candidate) being involved in murder to distract from a republican's current issues (holy **** I can't believe I just typed that), to what the left media does. They do their own pushing of stories and downplaying and twisting, but this is an extreme situation.

 

Generally I agree with Destino. The second biggest issue we have in politics is how easily politicians push money around and how invested they are in pushing culture war issues to keep people riled up. Both sides love to do it.

 

But the biggest issue, and the issue that concerns me more with this situation other than Foxnews and Hannity are garbage, is just how mind numbingly stupid our general population is and how easily they believe stories simply because it fits their desired narrative.

 

This is in the same realm as the story that caused a dude to shoot up a pizzeria.

 

I've had discussions with a few of you across different threads over the years where you've shown you disagree with me on the stupidity of our population. For various reasons, including just not wanting to be an ass, you've spoken out against my view on that.

 

Are you starting to see what I see? Because what I see are a lot of stupid people.

 

(Just to be clear, I'm talking about people I see in life. Not on the board. The board has some pretty smart people actively participating and for the most part conversations are pretty above standard and only slightly get heated here and there, and often only because the same people argue with each other repeatedly over years)