NPR: Behind Fox News' Baseless Seth Rich Story: The Untold Tale

[Hersh]

Just now, Kilmer17 said:

You're proving my point.  Thanks.

 

That's comical and doesn't actually have anything to do with your point. If McCain had never given that speech and had just been in the senate the entire time, he doesn't get that same level of scorn. Not even close. 

 

Having the expectation that someone lives up to the principles they say isn't about hating the right or left. 

[Kilmer17]

Just now, Dan T. said:

It's better that hatred is focused on a specific person rather than an ideology.   A person who deserves all the vitriol we can muster because of... say, his narcissism, his lack of humanity, his pathological lying, his blatant appeals to the racism and other dark weaknesses of his base...

 

If only there were someone like that in the political arena these days...

 

 

Except that's not what's happening.  All things Trump are blamed on the GOP and their supporters as a whole.  Even a refusal to become complete outraged daily is sometimes seen as a a placid support.

[AsburySkinsFan]

5 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

I genuinely do not know why some people on here seriously engage comments like what Kilmer just made. You just have to dismiss them or ignore.

Easy now, @Kilmer17isn't a Rightwing drone. I for one tend to agree with him, however I would suggest that by volume the disdain from the Right toward the Left is greater than the opposite. That could be because I live in a blood red state and I see it all the damn time, but I've felt the sneer of Lefties who hate anything Right of Center.

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, Hersh said:

 

That's comical and doesn't actually have anything to do with your point. If McCain had never given that speech and had just been in the senate the entire time, he doesn't get that same level of scorn. Not even close. 

 

Having the expectation that someone lives up to the principles they say isn't about hating the right or left. 

Thanks for letting me know what my point is.

[Bozo the kKklown]

Just now, AsburySkinsFan said:

Easy now, @Kilmer17isn't a Rightwing drone. I for one tend to agree with him, however I would suggest that by volume the disdain from the Right toward the Left is greater than the opposite. That could be because I live in a blood red state and I see it all the damn time, but I've felt the sneer of Lefties who hate anything Right of Center.

Here is the thing, why feel the need to say it? Hatred is wrong regardless. Say that. He pretty much said, "well you do it too *sticks tongue out*"

 

What does that add?

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Easy now, @Kilmer17isn't a Rightwing drone. I for one tend to agree with him, however I would suggest that by volume the disdain from the Right toward the Left is greater than the opposite. That could be because I live in a blood red state and I see it all the damn time, but I've felt the sneer of Lefties who hate anything Right of Center.

This is absolutely true currently.  And again, my original point.  The question is WHY does the right have such hate and disdain for the left and the media.  And what can be done to change that? I'm arguing that simply telling the right that they are comics, or wrong, or racist or whatever isnt going to move the needle.

[TradeTheBeal!]

14 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

After a few pages of hatred and disdain.  And only when he voted in a way that the left approved of.

 

Not really, tho.  And he voted in a way that centrists approved of.  The left were angry about the MTP vote but they....wait for it...LET IT GO.

 

The scorn McCain received from the right about the vote was considerably greater.  Do you disagree?

[Kilmer17]

9 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

He came back to the Senate, gave some big principled speech then voted against everything he had just claimed in the speech. It was well deserved. 

 

What does the left hate about the right and what does the right hate about the left?

I missed this.

 

It's a good question.  Maybe worth it's own thread.

[Hersh]

5 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Thanks for letting me know what my point is.

 

Based on the conversation about the left hating the right unless they do what they want. You then said I proved your point talking about McCain. I assume the point you were referring to was the left hates the right unless they do what they want. If so, that wasn't the case with McCain. This was completely related to his speech. That's why he received the scorn. If he doesn't give that speech and to a lesser degree he never had cancer, he doesn't receive that same scorn. 

 

You point is certainly true at times (if I'm getting your point correct) just not in this case to me. 

[Kilmer17]

2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Not really, tho.  And he voted in a way that centrists approved of.  The left were angry about the MTP vote but they....wait for it...LET IT GO.

 

The scorn McCain received from the right about the vote was considerably greater.  Do you disagree?

Absolutely agree on the second point.

[AsburySkinsFan]

1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said:

Except that's not what's happening.  All things Trump are blamed on the GOP and their supporters as a whole.  Even a refusal to become complete outraged daily is sometimes seen as a a placid support.

I think a lot of that GOP ownership comes from the fact that the party has been slow to respond to Trump. The Senate is where about the only place we're seeing any real pushback against him. I know there are some who believe that the Trump phenomenon is a hostile takeover, if that's the case then so be it, but one would expect more kicking and thrashing and not nearly as much appeasement. If you want the GOP to be disassociated from Trump then the volume of their rejection of him needs to increase significantly.

[TradeTheBeal!]

How the alt-right feels about centrists....

 

[Kilmer17]

Just now, AsburySkinsFan said:

I think a lot of that GOP ownership comes from the fact that the party has been slow to respond to Trump. The Senate is where about the only place we're seeing any real pushback against him. I know there are some who believe that the Trump phenomenon is a hostile takeover, if that's the case then so be it, but one would expect more kicking and thrashing and not nearly as much appeasement. If you want the GOP to be disassociated from Trump then the volume of their rejection of him needs to increase significantly.

Trump has been a complete failure in regards to agenda.  He has accomplished NOTHING.  Even with both houses.  That's a pretty good response and rejection imo.

[Dan T.]

1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said:

Except that's not what's happening.  All things Trump are blamed on the GOP and their supporters as a whole.  Even a refusal to become complete outraged daily is sometimes seen as a a placid support.

 

I think you are right in many respects.  Trump can do that to a person.

 

I for one have said all along that my disdain for Donald Trump would be just as great even if his political views were in lockstep with mine.  It's the man, not the ideology, I abhor.  But Jeff Flake wrote eloquently about how the Republican Party is in danger of being tarnished and diminished by embracing - or at least acquiescing to - the darker impulses of Trump's brand of conservatism. 

 

But you are correct that a vote for a conservative bill is not a tacit ticket on the Trump bandwagon.  Some looking on from the outside view it that way.  Trump has put conservatives in that pickle

 

The political divide has never been sharper in my lifetime.  And just when those fences need mending, along comes Donald Trump, the most divisive politician I've ever seen.  Talk about throwing gasoline on the fire...

[AsburySkinsFan]

18 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

This is absolutely true currently.  And again, my original point.  The question is WHY does the right have such hate and disdain for the left and the media.  And what can be done to change that? I'm arguing that simply telling the right that they are comics, or wrong, or racist or whatever isnt going to move the needle.

Personally, I believe that Faux News/Limbaugh et al have a LOT to do with it. Heck Faux was built on the very idea. Then when GOP politicos are confronted with Rightwingnut hysteria/racism etc and do or say nothing to quell it the resentment builds because the politician is trading political expediency for integrity and leadership. We saw this most clearly in the growth of the Tea Party. Now, politicians are stuck with the fact that their party has been pushed significantly to the Right, so much so that the party it no longer best represents Conservative ideals. But is instead, overwhelmed by nationalistic Pepe drones. And when the rest of us watching don't hear a repudiation of this then we're left to wonder if that's the actual accepted belief of the politician or if they're not standing up to it for political expediency...the net result however is the same. What I don't see with GOP rank and file is an awareness of just how much the party has changed since 9/11. 

[Llevron]

Just now, Kilmer17 said:

Which is what?  That the right is more interested in voting against and fighting the left than they are in addressing their own issues?  That's exactly what my first post pointed out.

 

Yea that's part of it. But if you understand that then why create....... 

6 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

So the left's hatred is justified, but the rights is misguided? 

 

^^^^^that out if nothing? 

 

You see how you are helping to fudge the point in order to make the mess look even on both sides? Its not. And it had nothing to do with my first post. This is a very Republican tactic and, surprise, part of the problem. 

[PleaseBlitz]

While acknowledging that this thread now has nothing to do with Fox News' complete abdication of journalistic standards in favor of torturing the family of a murdered son:

 

It's pretty tough to expect a party to abandon a duly-elected (notwithstanding the Russian interference) President that won their parties nomination only six months in to his administration.  I think what is happening is about what can be expected.  Trump is failing to implement any agenda, continues to alienate allies (foreign and domestic), is under federal investigation for, among many other things, obstruction of justice and collusion with a foreign enemy, and is generally a complete ****show.  So what we are now seeing is cracks forming.  A small handful of senators are absolutely willing to buck him on a big-time healthcare vote, both congress and the military are starting to pretty much ignore his dictates, very few are bothering to come to his defense when he does dumb ****, and at least one senator is writing a book thrashing everything Trumpism stands for.  It's only been six months.  Soon, given Trumps numbers (somewhere around 37% approval), Rs are going to start having to run in actual elections where they have to distance themselves from Trump.  Then things will really start coming apart (significantly due to the fact that Trump will notice and rip those people on Twitter).  

 

 

[Llevron]

35 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

This is absolutely true currently.  And again, my original point.  The question is WHY does the right have such hate and disdain for the left and the media.  And what can be done to change that? I'm arguing that simply telling the right that they are comics, or wrong, or racist or whatever isnt going to move the needle.

 

You arnt wrong, though. We will never reach people by telling them they are racist and whatever else. I just argue we wont reach these people so why bull**** about it. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

27 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Trump has been a complete failure in regards to agenda.  He has accomplished NOTHING.  Even with both houses.  That's a pretty good response and rejection imo.

And yet his poll numbers still reflect fairly solid support from those who originally voted for him. Yes, his approval ratings are low, but he's only just now dropped below 50% with non-college voters. His 35%+- ratings are basically the same people who voted for him. 

 

As for legislative agenda, that has ONLY stalled because of a handful of Senators. The House GOP is still rubber stamping Trump's agenda. If not for McCain/Collins et al the Senate would be too.

[Bang]

1 hour ago, Kilmer17 said:

Dont dismiss the hatred that the left has for anything on the right.  Trump makes an easy target, but dont pretend that the venom is new.

If i had to bet a dollar on which will accept or extend an olive branch,  it isn't on the right.

Left fringes are full of hate.

right fringes are full of hate...  but they aren't on the fringes anymore.

 

and frankly, given the overt nature of the right's frothing hatred.. (they aren't even people, the President's son said.. pundits calling for Civil war.. the NRA dropping a very thinly veiled threat..) you have to wonder how much hate that the left has is in response to this. The rhetoric has been pointedly poisonous for a couple of decades now. Propaganda works, and when the propaganda tells the faithful to hate, that is what happens. (They're stealing your jobs, they're killing your country, they're trying to get rid of your religion, war on Christmas, He's a muslim terrorist sympathizer.. look at the fist bump..they want Sharia law.. they're destroying the Constitution.. look at these black people burning their city, and look at these heroic white patriots pointing rifles at police in Nevada and Oregon. ) These aren't vague insinuations that Fox and company have been dropping in here and there,,, it's been their entire narrative for a long time now, and it is presented as solid fact. And it's not presented as political debate.. it is presented entirely as straight up us vs them. 

 

I keep thinking this is going to end in violence.. and lots of it.  and when it begins everyone will point fingers and say this is how "they act", and it's "their fault"... and i don't think it matters.

Hate breeds hate.

 

And the right's propaganda has been nurturing and coddling hate that goes beyond simple ideological differences. 

 

~Bang

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

16 minutes ago, Llevron said:

You see how you are helping to fudge the point in order to make the mess look even on both sides? Its not. And it had nothing to do with my first post. This is a very Republican tactic and, surprise, part of the problem. 

and this is why I do not get why we even validate that nonsensical stance anymore.

 

He isn't willing to engage in a fair way, so why engage with him at all?

 

Unless of course you actually think its equal and want to agree him.

[Burgold]

41 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

This is absolutely true currently.  And again, my original point.  The question is WHY does the right have such hate and disdain for the left and the media.  And what can be done to change that? I'm arguing that simply telling the right that they are comics, or wrong, or racist or whatever isnt going to move the needle.

The short answer is Vietnam.

The right felt that the media crucified them in Vietnam and Nixon's gang began what was a life long effort to try to legitimize them. That mantle has been taken up by almost every right wing pundit and politician since the Vietnam War.

The idea of kill the messenger has worked beautifully for the Republicans. It's like a permanent get out of jail free card. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

4 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

You arnt wrong, though. We will never reach people by telling them they are racist and whatever else. I just argue we wont reach these people so why bull**** about it. 

Not to mention that the only racists who don't object to being called racists are the KKK. There is a LOT of blatant racism out there, and the vast majority of those screaming Obama/Muslim/Kenyan BS never wore a sheet. I told my son the other day that the guy in front of us in line was being a total jackass, he said, "That's not nice." I agreed, and replied, "But you didn't say it wasn't true." I think a LOT of that same thing happens on this issue. Someone gets called a racist and they reject the lable, but the shoe still fits.

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

and this is why I do not get why we even validate that nonsensical stance anymore.

 

He isn't willing to engage in a fair way, so why engage with him at all?

 

Unless of course you actually think its equal and want to agree.

 

Im a internet sadist

[Bozo the kKklown]

8 minutes ago, Bang said:

These aren't vague insinuations that Fox and company have been dropping in here and there,,, it's been their entire narrative for a long time now, and it is presented as solid fact.

Bingo!