Moose & Squirrel v Boris & Natasha: what's the deal with the rooskies and trumpland?

[NoCalMike]

Why would Mueller, testifying about his own report's findings, appear political?

[Hersh]

Pelosi, Hoyer and whomever else is stonewalling is going to pay a heavy price when it comes to their legacy. No one really understands it now especially given how the WH is now acting. It doesn't make sense what they are doing. 

 

At least now more and more dems are publicly calling for impeachment to begin now. 

[Llevron]

14 hours ago, Larry said:

Hypothetical:  

 

Assume that you believe that the results of impeachment will be:  

 

1)  Passage in the House.  

2)  Absolute stonewalling in the Senate.

3)  And a whole lot of voters who don't like the noise simply deciding (for whatever reason) to change the channel.

4)  Trump reelection, and maybe even GOP gains in congress.  

 

You still approve of "doing your duty", and pushing that button?  

 

 

So hang on - most of y'all are in here saying that even if you believed it would get Trump reelected, you would do it again out of principle or duty or whatever? 

[No Excuses]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

 

So hang on - most of y'all are in here saying that even if you believed it would get Trump reelected, you would do it again out of principle or duty or whatever? 

 

If the country is dumb enough, it deserves what it gets when corrupt politicians are held accountable and that act of accountability works in the corrupt wankers benefit. 

[Llevron]

50 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

"Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees. "

 

~ Emiliano Zapata (also some dead guy)

 

Just want to point out that the dead guy in this scenario is equivalent to the United States of America. Or at the very least its people. 

[Springfield]

Couple things:

 

I don’t believe impeachment proceedings will at all hurt the Dems.

 

Nancy Pelosi is proving to be a giant mistake at speaker.

[NoCalMike]

Also at this point we don't actually know how the rest of the process would play out if Trump was impeached.  The establishment Dems are making a calculated guess on how it would play out, but they could be wrong.  Honestly at this point I don't see impeachment moving voters one way or another if it is done now.  It will be old news by election time. 

 

Maybe they impeach him and when it stalls in the Senate, the Dems can use it to turn out voters in the Senate races, saying that the people have the power to have Trump removed from office.....

 

We don't know.

[twa]

47 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Why would Mueller, testifying about his own report's findings, appear political?

 

Because of the politicians questioning him. 

 

 

[TheGoodBits]

6 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

 

I don’t believe impeachment proceedings will at all hurt the Dems.

 

 

I lean toward probably not... but here's the deal. 

 

Impeachment proceedings offer exactly a 0% chance of removing Trump from office.

 

Dems know they have about a 65% chance of removing Trump from office by defeating him in an election. 

 

If you are concerned in ANY way that impeachment proceedings could help galvanize Trump's base and reduce your odds of defeating him in an election, even by 10%... it's too risky to try. Because even if it's the right thing to do, it won't make any difference. Senate isn't going to convict. 0% chance you can count on any Republican to do the right thing for the country. 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by visionary

[Busch1724]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

Why would Mueller, testifying about his own report's findings, appear political?

 

If we had people in Congress who would make the hearing about what it should be about, he'd be able to testify. However, in a public hearing ****s from the right and left will pontificate for 4 or 5 minutes before asking a "yes" or "no" question. The public hearings are generally pointless. Now, a private hearing would make better sense. A public hearing would be pointless and just provide talking points that we've already heard. No reason to put Mueller up to the grandstanding. 

[Larry]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

Maybe they impeach him and when it stalls in the Senate, the Dems can use it to turn out voters in the Senate races, saying that the people have the power to have Trump removed from office.....

 

I perceive a problem with an election strategy based on "Vote Dem, so we can get Trump out of office", in an election in which Trump is on the ballot. 

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

Just want to point out that the dead guy in this scenario is equivalent to the United States of America. Or at the very least its people. 

I'm aware and thought about it when selecting that quote.  Us on our knees is us having an unchecked executive branch with a political party that is gleefully supporting their leader get closer and closer to being an authoritarian.  Us on our feet is at least trying to push back.  Us at least putting up a fight instead accepting our slide into becoming the next Venezuela.  

 

So yes, that quote seems appropriate. 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by TheGreatBuzz
double post

[NoCalMike]

6 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

I perceive a problem with an election strategy based on "Vote Dem, so we can get Trump out of office", in an election in which Trump is on the ballot. 

 

 

 

Yeah I worded it wrong, I more meant it would be motivation to flip the Senate nullifying more of Trump's overreach should he be re-elected.

[visionary]

 

[Llevron]

10 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I'm aware and thought about it when selecting that quote.  Us on our knees is us having an unchecked executive branch with a political party that is gleefully supporting their leader get closer and closer to being an authoritarian.  Us on our feet is at least trying to push back.  Us at least putting up a fight instead accepting our slide into becoming the next Venezuela.  

 

So yes, that quote seems appropriate. 

 

 

Oh yea, I just wanted to point it out. I thought it made it more poetic. 

[Larry]

5 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

 

Wouldn't mind that, myself. 

 

MIGHT cut down on the theatrics. And maybe allow them to go into some of the redacted things. 

[twa]

20 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Wouldn't mind that, myself. 

 

MIGHT cut down on the theatrics. And maybe allow them to go into some of the redacted things. 

 

NONSENSE...subpoena him immediately.

Durn upstarts trying to put conditions on testimony that Congress deserves by right.

 

who does he think he is, the AG ?????

[NoCalMike]

I suppose I wouldn't  mind a closed-door hearing, however does that mean the public will never get to see transcripts or what was said, or just that it wouldn't be broadcast live and the testimony would be made available afterwards?  Only issue is they do the closed door hearings and then we have a situation where members of each party act like they heard two completely different testimonies. 

[Springfield]

2 hours ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

 

I lean toward probably not... but here's the deal. 

 

Impeachment proceedings offer exactly a 0% chance of removing Trump from office.

 

Dems know they have about a 65% chance of removing Trump from office by defeating him in an election. 

 

If you are concerned in ANY way that impeachment proceedings could help galvanize Trump's base and reduce your odds of defeating him in an election, even by 10%... it's too risky to try. Because even if it's the right thing to do, it won't make any difference. Senate isn't going to convict. 0% chance you can count on any Republican to do the right thing for the country. 

 

Everyone seems to be worried that impeachment will empower Trump’s base, but nobody seems to think about what a failed impeachment would do.

 

You think all the Dems who want Trump our are just gonna give up after impeachment fails because of stalwart republicans?

 

I think that a failed impeachment makes the democrat base more active as well.  “If congress won’t do it then we will make our voices heard ourselves”.  I think impeachment is the best way to go about voting Trump out of office.

 

Its a political tool and they have the power to use it.  Trump lost an unprecedented amount of seats in Congress SPECIFICALLY because people wanted him out.  This is what they’ve been appointed to do.  Stop worrying about the ramifications and look what the people are saying by their votes.

[Hersh]

Mueller behind closed doors is horse ****. He did the report and the American people need to hear directly from him. Reading a transcript does no good. 

[TheGoodBits]

5 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

Everyone seems to be worried that impeachment will empower Trump’s base, but nobody seems to think about what a failed impeachment would do.

 

You think all the Dems who want Trump our are just gonna give up after impeachment fails because of stalwart republicans?

 

I think that a failed impeachment makes the democrat base more active as well.  “If congress won’t do it then we will make our voices heard ourselves”.  I think impeachment is the best way to go about voting Trump out of office.

 

Its a political tool and they have the power to use it.  Trump lost an unprecedented amount of seats in Congress SPECIFICALLY because people wanted him out.  This is what they’ve been appointed to do.  Stop worrying about the ramifications and look what the people are saying by their votes.

 

Actually on second thought it's not so much base empowerment but the middle ground folks that are honestly not that concerned about whether or not the president is a criminal.

 

Dems win when they dictate messaging around the economy, around minimum wage, around policies that help people. Doing anything to distract from that only hurts your chances with the 10% or so of the electorate who legitimately could go either way. 

 

Roughly 10% of Trump voters voted for Obama in either 08 or 12.  These voters are Trump's shakiest supporters. They're the ones that are likely to say they disapprove of Trump (currently at 41.5% approval rating). We've seen profiles of them... they aren't particularly high information voters. Maybe they thought Trump would strike trade deals would help them in Ohio or PA or MI. Maybe they beleived his rhetoric that he was going to "Make America Great Again." Maybe they just REALLY didn't trust Hillary Clinton. Regardless, *this* is the kind of voter you need to be wary of disillusioning with impeachment. If this handful of people views Democrats as just trying to obstruct Trump because their focus is on removing him rather than solving issues, you're setting Trump up for more success in 2020 than he should have. 

 

Personally, I understand that the only way to get rid of Trump is to win the election. So I share Pelosi's hesitation about launching what would amount to largely symbolic impeachment proceedings. I'm scared to death that we end up with 4 more years of Trump and I don't want Dems to do *anything* to upset the current balance, which is that Trump is extremely unpopular and primed to lose next year. 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Cooked Crack

[visionary]

 

[NoCalMike]

Whoops!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-appeal-merrick-garland-073839708.html

KARMA ALERT: Trump Appeal Now Goes To Court Headed By Merrick Garland

Quote

President Donald Trump’s attorneys have vowed to appeal Monday’s decision in favor of a House committee seeking his financial records, but people on Twitter were thrilled about where the case will end up. 

“We will be filing a timely notice of appeal to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals,” Trump attorney Jay Sekulow told Politico. 

The current chief judge there is Merrick Garland, who President Barack Obama nominated to the Supreme Court in 2016 after Associate Justice Antonin Scalia died.