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Moose & Squirrel v Boris & Natasha: what's the deal with the rooskies and trumpland?


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18 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

 

People should reread the Special Counsel's appointment.  

 

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

 

His mandate was to investigate.  The other part says "if the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters."  

 

Mueller used his prosecutorial power to nail people in order to flip them, so they'll spill the beans.  This appears to have worked on a few people (Cohen, Gates), but also didn't work on Manafort.  Whether or not Mueller viewed it as "necessary and appropriate" to, himself, prosecute Trump for obstruction or people besides Trump (Kush and Jr) for conspiracy is a fair question with good answers on both sides.  We won't know until we see the whole report.  

 

Thoughts @DogofWar1?

Edited by PleaseBlitz
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I think there was definitely some sort of collusion but ultimately there just wasn't quite enough evidence.

 

But we also live in a political climate where one party is downright immoral and corrupt. So who the hell knows?

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i'm not posting  here much lately, but do read,  and will say that watching hucksan and donnie wail about the horrific behavior of lying to the american people is beyond head-spinning

 

one reason i'm in a less-communicative mode re: politics anywhere i go is how difficult it's become to find people who have a decent level of personal integrity in consistency of the standards and behaviors that they celebrate or criticize in their arguments and stances, as well as amount of factual or reliable data (quality sourcing) used for support of claims made

 

 

these human traits have always been major challenges in such discussions forever, of course.....but to me the level of mindless unthinking hypocrisy, and even willful and deliberate forms of dishonesty or being disingenuous that i see in people's behaviors has really increased a great deal, which is a logical connection to majorly increased "polarization" (inc. more actual "hate" for the "other side")

 

informative and thought-provoking policy debates and arguments of principle between ideologies, even when peppered with strong emotions,  is always a worthy and desirable goal to me, but these day i have very little tolerance for the too-common terminal level of hypocrisy and the disingenuous game playing

 

 

about 20 years ago i made some observations on the interwebs that aspects of a sizeable segment of  "video-game playing" culture (mainly white males, often unmarried, under 50 yo then or now) seemed to really enjoy the mindless, endless, trash-talking, with winning is everything (logically enough in a game) but also fun was the insulting of others, which would often include epithets of racial. homophonic or other slurs, including from people who really didn't hold those views but would say such things in that context becuase "it's what we do and we like doing it".....and a lot of that "normalization" in that venue became a real role in seeding "trolling" behaviors on the internet overall...i see some of these "gaming behaviors" in many political discussions....often arguments read like two airheads playing a game to win and not actually pursuing more understanding or insight or trying to productively persuade someone of differing views

 

 

let me note that the tailgate overall has a better standing in these matters, at least among the true regulars here, than many a place and that  folks "venting" emotionally in a comment every now and then, no matter where on the political spectrum they fall, is certainly understandable and part of the deal

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2 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

about 20 years ago i made some observations on the interwebs that aspects of a sizeable segment of  "video-game playing" culture (mainly white males, often unmarried, under 50 yo then or now) seemed to really enjoy the mindless, endless, trash-talking, with winning is everything (logically enough in a game) but also fun was the insulting of others, which would often include epithets of racial. homophonic or other slurs, including from people who really didn't hold those views but would say such things in that context becuase "it's what we do and we like doing it".....and a lot of that "normalization" in that venue became past of the "trolling" behaviors on the internet overall...i see some of these "gaming behaviors" in many political discussions....often arguments read like two airheads playing a game to win and not actually pursuing more understanding or insight or trying to productively persuade someone of differing views

 

This is what became Gamergate, for those that are not aware.

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27 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

I don't know what to believe anymore.

 

you can trust me barry, just don't follow me :P

 

9 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

This is what became Gamergate, for those that are not aware.

 

 

i am not aware of gamergate, but i will make myself so  :)

 

haven't kept up on such stuff, partly because just reading broadly and being affiliated here provides me with all "internet behavior" material i wish to invite at this time :D

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33 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

I don't know what to believe anymore.

Same. 

 

I mean I have my opinions on it but ultimately we’re stuck. The way this has gone both sides can claim victory and stick to their two+ year old stances. 

 

And it looks like we’ll have 2 more years of the same show we’ve been watching. 

 

I knew this was possible and even likely, but it sucks. I can’t stand this version of “politics” and we’ve got at least 2 more years of it. 

 

6 if the dems don’t win. 

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1 hour ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

 Thoughts @DogofWar1?

So my thought is that while his mandate is investigation not necessarily prosecution, there is a distinction between prosecuting and making a prosecutorial recommendation.

 

Mueller was not required nor should have been expected to prosecute every single case.

 

But he can certainly and, being the investigatory party, would be expected to issue a recommendation either way.

 

This is why you have a bunch of former US Attys and such coming out and saying Mueller not making a recommendation is really weird.

 

 

As such, I suspect there are two main possibilities with several others floating out there but less likely:

1) Mueller was legitimately stumped on evidentiary aspects and punted

2) Mueller found enough but followed DOJ policy to not indict a sitting president (so punted but not on evidentiary purposes)

 

Two strikes me as more likely while Barr makes it sound like #1, but we don't really know either way until we get more of the report.

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3 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Do not,  I repeat, do not look into this.   

I mean, as dumb as it was it is basically one of the groundswells that eventually led to Trump.  From an academic standpoint, it's crucial to study to understand the decline America is experiencing.

 

Doesn't make it not really really stupid, but that's how it be sometimes.

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4 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

I mean, as dumb as it was it is basically one of the groundswells that eventually led to Trump.  From an academic standpoint, it's crucial to study to understand the decline America is experiencing.

 

Doesn't make it not really really stupid, but that's how it be sometimes.

 

Fair.  


Counterpoint:  It is important to understand the impact of traumatic head injuries, I just prefer that people I know and like not be the ones shooting themselves in the head. 

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Democrats need to stop trusting the system to help us and win our fights for us.  We need to recognize that we are in a fight for control over America with the GoP and that it's a fight to the death.  That our traditional investigative and political mechanisms for checking power and corruption are feckless and were never designed to manage this level of bad faith hyperpartisan government.  The genie is out of the bottle, we will never go back to "normalcy," and all we have left now is a fight.

 

1 - We need our own version of the right wing propaganda media to become powerful and capable of radicalizing and messaging our base.

2 - We need to elect partisan fighters to congress who will close ranks around leadership and obstruct all Republican attempts to govern.

3 - We need to create a militant left wing judicial pipeline to put our partisans on Federal and Supreme Court seats.

4 - We need to block Republican judicial appointments at all costs.

5 - We need to be running our own influence operations on social networks all over the web.

6 - We need to form Superpacs with the financial capability and mission to target seats everywhere there is even the slightest vulnerability and flood those campaigns with negative attacks that will swiftboat Republican candidates and depress turnout in Red areas.  We need to go nuclear in our negativity about Trump and attack him over everything to destroy his poll numbers, even if it involves fishing trips.

7 - We need to gain control of legislatures and craft tax policy that will punish areas for voting Red.

8 - And finally, Democrat voters need to start arming ourselves and developing our own militant gun culture.

 

We can keep getting martyred by trying to play fair or we can understand the nature of our enemy and the fight that we are in and fight back.

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Unlimited money in politics, militarized judiciaries, guns, propaganda, swiftboating - these are not inherently partisan tools.  And Republicans already project all of this **** onto Democrats anyway.

 

People who generally agree with Democratic positions or policies =/= Democrats.

 

A significant centrist bloc that is persuadable either way does not exist.

 

The American public is made up of motivated partisans and checked out nonpartisans who have minimal effect on our elections and political life.  The American electorate is a battleground fought between partisans.  It's been this way since the fight was between Tories and Patriots and a checked out third.  Republicans win because they understand this and they've got more money and they are better at organizing and motivating their partisans.

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This country took a hard nosedive in the 60s when the Kennedys and MLK were assassinated. We were denied the opportunity of decades of generational inspiring liberal leaders ushering in a golden age of hope, equality, economics, and progressiveness.

 

Instead we crash landed into religious fanaticism, regressive policies, corruption and a constant quest for power and wealth. Nixon doesn't happen without those assassination and without Nixon, I don't think we get Reagan either. I'd say most of the problems with corruption in our system, inequality in rights and economics can be traced back to those two administrations.

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Yikes!
 

Add: Listening to it again I think she is saying that Trump was falsely charged with something that could bring about the death penalty, not that the press is guilty of treason. Still sensationalist. The giggle is a nice touch.

Edited by RedskinsFan44
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i think steve's ideas----radical as some might find them---are actually far more grounded and pragmatic than my view that trump and all trump supporters should be shuffled off this mortal coil via de Sade's gameroom

 

it seems next to impossible to find even one trumpet who can argue at any length with much evidence of "arguing in good faith" showing before we even get into things like "perception/perspective" let alone alternate facts/realites and 100% commitment to 100% hypocrisy as the case often is

 

i find only a very small percentage of trump supporters that don't strike me as well-deserving of  some "deplorable" membership, and i find trump becoming president a truly horrific indictment of this culture, well reflecting diseased cores of it's dramatically ugly, ignorant, and greed-driven murderous history that many are still in unable/unwilling to accept is such a fundamental element to what we are as a society, with all this great wealth and power we've accumulated after taking possession....we hold onto a staggering level of wealth that should do more than raise an eyebrow as to why so many poor people still suffer lack of basics like food and shelter within its borders as we decide the priorities of our personal and government spending, let alone casually waste so much in resources every day

 

admitting to and being accountable for ugly horrors of the past or in the present doesn't mean there is an absence of some "special" kind of good, or even greatness, that "America" can celebrate or offer to the world as a nation, it has and it does---of course this applies to most any society/culture of any size and duration in history

 

a bit of a rambling post, i know :)

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