Moose & Squirrel v Boris & Natasha: what's the deal with the rooskies and trumpland?

[Bozo the kKklown]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Democrats need to stop trusting the system to help us and win our fights for us.  We need to recognize that we are in a fight for control over America with the GoP and that it's a fight to the death.  That our traditional investigative and political mechanisms for checking power and corruption are feckless and were never designed to manage this level of bad faith hyperpartisan government.  The genie is out of the bottle, we will never go back to "normalcy," and all we have left now is a fight.

 

1 - We need our own version of the right wing propaganda media to become powerful and capable of radicalizing and messaging our base.

2 - We need to elect partisan fighters to congress who will close ranks around leadership and obstruct all Republican attempts to govern.

3 - We need to create a militant left wing judicial pipeline to put our partisans on Federal and Supreme Court seats.

4 - We need to block Republican judicial appointments at all costs.

5 - We need to be running our own influence operations on social networks all over the web.

6 - We need to form Superpacs with the financial capability and mission to target seats everywhere there is even the slightest vulnerability and flood those campaigns with negative attacks that will swiftboat Republican candidates and depress turnout in Red areas.  We need to go nuclear in our negativity about Trump and attack him over everything to destroy his poll numbers, even if it involves fishing trips.

7 - We need to gain control of legislatures and craft tax policy that will punish areas for voting Red.

8 - And finally, Democrat voters need to start arming ourselves and developing our own militant gun culture.

 

We can keep getting martyred by trying to play fair or we can understand the nature of our enemy and the fight that we are in and fight back.

The biggest things Dems need to do, and you somewhat addressed it, wield power.

 

If you are sitting here waiting for some "3rd way" BS of Clinton/Obama and are shook of what the right-wing machine will say about your politics, then you are doing it completely wrong. That was the biggest failure of Obama. He never wanted to wield the power of having both chambers of Congress behind you. Stop negotiating with terrorists.

[superozman]

1 minute ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

The biggest things Dems need to do, and you somewhat addressed it, wield power.

 

 

This is what I gathered from his post - him wanting Dems to control all power.

 

IMO, this is a radical approach, and continues/creates the divide to be even larger.  But not sure that is any different than what Dems are upset with over Trump currently?  So is that the answer, for people to flip to what they want and be radical in that manner?  

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Jumbo said:

admitting to and being accountable for ugly horrors of the past or in the present doesn't mean there is an absence of some "special" kind of good, or even greatness, that "America" can celebrate or offer to the world as a nation, it has and it does---of course this applies to most any society/culture of any size and duration in history 

 

Over the past few months I've been seeing liberals in Australia and Canada slowly realize to their horror that Trumpism is spreading to their country too.  It will be everywhere soon.  This is not a uniquely American problem.  Nativism and racism and xenophobia and authoritarianism are universal political incentives and they are contagious.  America is a true political and cultural leader, for better and for worse.  We are the largest cohesive first world political entity and the rest of the West can not quarantine us, nor escape the kinds of political realities inherent to human societies.

 

Russia is slowly and subtly winning the ideological war against Democracy around the world.  White Supremacy is turtling up everywhere White people live and horde power, and it is poisoning and eroding Democracy.  It's going to get worse too.  Demographic realities will put White Supremacy in direct opposition to Democracy and climate change will put Hellish strain on human societies all over the globe, particularly in the societies with huge populations in the subtropics and around the equator.

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NoCalMike]

The problem with the super PAC/money thing, is that you are never going to out raise/spend the folks who are on the side of corporations.  That goes for centrist/corporate Democrats too (running against progressives).

 

Now for 2020, I am likely willing to take a "gloves off approach" as I have seen and heard enough from Trump to just want him replaced with whoever, but in the long term, the goal still needs to be outlawing money in politics outright. 

 

When running for office requires as much money as it does now, I'm sorry, but we will be nearly as disappointed with the Democrats that get elected as we are with the GOP.  

[Going Commando]

48 minutes ago, twa said:

The they got more money rings kinda hollow after Beto and Hillary ect record spending..

 

But I guess that is more palatable than smarter. 

 

You've got a lot of Billionaire PAC money, including Russian money and manpower helping to radicalize and motivate your base, and that **** dwarfs any candidate's personal war chest.

3 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Now for 2020, I am likely willing to take a "gloves off approach" as I have seen and heard enough from Trump to just want him replaced with whoever, but in the long term, the goal still needs to be outlawing money in politics outright.  

 

How do you realistically achieve that without making it a blade that truly equally cuts both ways?

[Jumbo]

3 minutes ago, superozman said:

 

This is what I gathered from his post - him wanting Dems to control all power.

 

IMO, this is a radical approach, and continues/creates the divide to be even larger.  But not sure that is any different than what Dems are upset with over Trump currently?  So is that the answer, for people to flip to what they want and be radical in that manner?  

 

 

I get the thinking steve is showing, but i think becoming more like the thing you dislike to "win" has its own well known and equally--or worse--consequences

 

I accept my job as chooser, and many times have preferred the choice to "lose" rather than "win" if the latter includes betraying principles I've chosen as ones to hold dearly...i've let go of some major money or other gains, and i like money and other gains, and taken a lot of grief from loved ones in the past for it...this is just my take, not a blanket recommendation....i tell everyone "don't follow me"....talk about "dark territory" 

[visionary]

 

 

 

I can't help but wonder about some of those plea deals now though.  What was the point?  Just to make conviction easier?

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

I get the thinking steve is showing, but i think becoming more like the thing you dislike to "win" has its own well known and equally--or worse--consequences

 

I accept my job as chooser, and many times have preferred the choice to "lose" rather than "win" if the latter includes betraying principles I've chosen as ones to hold dearly...i've let go of some major money or other gains, and i like money and other gains, and taken a lot of grief from loved ones in the past for it...this is just my take, not a blanket recommendation....i tell everyone "don't follow me"....talk about "dark territory" 

 

Lemme find out Jumbo is Rosie Perez in White Men Can't Jump:

 

 

Carry on.

 

[NoCalMike]

16 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

You've got a lot of Billionaire PAC money, including Russian money and manpower helping to radicalize and motivate your base, and that **** dwarfs any candidate's personal war chest.

 

How do you realistically achieve that without making it a blade that truly equally cuts both ways?

 

Well for now under the current rules of "any money goes" of course the Dems should go out and raise as much as they can.  I am talking down the road, long term, what the goal should be.

[Going Commando]

12 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

I get the thinking steve is showing, but i think becoming more like the thing you dislike to "win" has its own well known and equally--or worse--consequences

 

I accept my job as chooser, and many times have preferred the choice to "lose" rather than "win" if the latter includes betraying principles I've chosen as ones to hold dearly...i've let go of some major money or other gains, and i like money and other gains, and taken a lot of grief from loved ones in the past for it...this is just my take, not a blanket recommendation....i tell everyone "don't follow me"....talk about "dark territory" 

 

I don't want to win this way either, but we are already in a fight to the death and we need to be willing to fight back.  Normalcy is gone and we need to accept that.  And like Benning said, we need to wield power, not continue to die hoping some mythical demographic majority will save us and bestow a just and prosperous society upon us.  Wielding power is the only way we ever get anything close to that outcome of a just and prosperous democracy.  We can get bloody fighting wars but if we win and make the country better then our children will thank us.  They're not going to thank us for being noble and playing footsy with our enemies and chastising our own for petty bull**** and worrying ourselves to death over abstracts and slippery slopes and what-might-bes while those enemies install an authoritarian, impoverished white supremacist kleptocratic petrostate.

12 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Well for now under the current rules of "any money goes" of course the Dems should go out and raise as much as they can.  I am talking down the road, long term, what the goal should be. 

 

I agree.  And I think the way to get there is to make it a cudgel every Republican feels too.

[DogofWar1]

33 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

 

 

Watch.

This.

Space.

 

 

This is an issue of tremendous importance.  Did Barr usurp Congress' power?

[Hersh]

3 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

Watch.

This.

Space.

 

 

This is an issue of tremendous importance.  Did Barr usurp Congress' power?

 

Does it really matter at this point? The media immediately abdicated their responsibly by making claims that Trump was all good as soon as the Barr letter came out instead of digging deeper. What you are and the twitter feed point out should have been a lead story immediately yesterday. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Hersh

[DogofWar1]

9 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

Does it really matter at this point? The media immediately abdicated their responsibly by making claims that Trump was all good as soon as the Barr letter came out instead of digging deeper. What you are and the twitter feed point out should have been a lead story immediately yesterday. 

 

I think it does because juuuuust enough of the media has caught on that Barr is probably not supposed to do what he did, probably.

 

If it ultimately is determined that Mueller sought the issue to go to Congress, that's a pretty big story.

 

It reignites and indeed helps Dems make the impeachment argument, and assuming some of the OTHER crimes come down around the same time, I think it gives a strong thrust for impeachment.  Likely unsuccessful in the Senate, but suggests the President's actions are definitely criminal.

[NoCalMike]

What is with this constant "the democrats, the democrats, the democrats" 

 

It was the FBI conducting the investigation.  Comey a GOP member, Mueller a GOP member, Jeff Sessions GOP, William Barr GOP, etc etc etc

 

It was McCain.....GOP,  that handed over a dossier to them in good faith.  

 

I understand why Trump and the GOP keep saying "The democrats" but people believing it are the real dolts I suppose. 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NoCalMike]

See this is why the GOP is gets more and more crazed as they go along.  They want Adam Schiff removed from office for giving an opinion on the investigation?  They want an investigation opened on the investigation, that just let Trump off the hook?   They want the FBI no going back to looking into Hillary's emails AGAIN?  What in the WTF is this?

 

How many GOP members were they demanding to be removed from office after Benghazi hearings 10.0 concluded the same no-wrongdoings as 1.0 did?

 

Their answer to their own claims of the Dems concentrating on too many investigations, is to........open more investigations?

[twa]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

You've got a lot of Billionaire PAC money, including Russian money and manpower helping to radicalize and motivate your base, and that **** dwarfs any candidate's personal war chest.

 

 

The Dems do as well if you look.

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Llevron]

Do any of y’all think Trump is going to stop at “winning” this? I ask because he has shown how vengeful he is and how he never ever drops a grudge and he mentioned treason today. 

 

I dont think he’s going to be happy winning. And I don’t think he’s above using the law to get people now that he knows he’s above it. 

[Isifhan]

Just now, Llevron said:

Do any of y’all think Trump is going to stop at “winning” this? I ask because he has shown how vengeful he is and how he never ever drops a grudge and he mentioned treason today. 

 

I dont think he’s going to be happy winning. And I don’t think he’s above using the law to get people now that he knows he’s above it. 

 

He'll get more brazen in what he does or what his surrogates do for him. It's open season at this point and nothing is off the table. 

[visionary]

Possibly Big News:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by visionary

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

[NoCalMike]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I agree.  And I think the way to get there is to make it a cudgel every Republican feels too.

 

See this is an issue I wish the Democrats would just lay all the cards on the table with when running.  Just come out and say "Look, in our current system it is impossible to having a fighting chance without taking the money, but if you vote us into majorities in the House, Senate, & White House, it will be one of the first items on our list to remove all money from politics and fundamentally change how elections are funded"

 

Most Americans want the money out, but they take this "well the other side does it, so I can't support only my side removing it" which is why Union money is always dangled as a justification for corporate donations.

 

Just run on removing ALL money, even the money sources that help you.   Got to take the bold steps.