2017 Washington Nationals: Wash, Rinse, Repeat

[TheGoodBits]

1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

On this same day, Tom Boswell writes a column that sticks a pin in the Bryce Harper Glory Balloon.  Boz argues that yeah, Bryce is good, but maybe he isn't the once-in-a-generation player we all thought he was.  He questions his leadership, and compares giving him a long-term mega deal to the Caps and Ovechkin, saying that that deal is now a bit of an albatross for the Caps. 

 

Trouble in paradise.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/bryce-harper-is-a-year-from-free-agency-so-whats-he-really-worth/2017/10/19/907c83aa-b4e0-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html?utm_term=.3ca314d22d25

 

Clown article by Boswell. What trash. Harper was an MVP two years ago, hurt and feeble last year, and then pretty damn good but not 2015 good this year. So naturally all Bos’s comparisons include 2016 and 2017 combined only. And yeah when you combine his outlier year with a good year you get mediocre stats. 

[PleaseBlitz]

12 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

 

Clown article by Boswell. What trash. Harper was an MVP two years ago, hurt and feeble last year, and then pretty damn good but not 2015 good this year. So naturally all Bos’s comparisons include 2016 and 2017 combined only. And yeah when you combine his outlier year with a good year you get mediocre stats. 

Wait what?

 

Quote

In the past five years, in those 126 games, Harper averaged 26 homers, 72 RBI and a .288 average. Over the last nine years, Adam Lind averaged 128 games, 20 homers, 70 RBI and hit .273. That’s selective stat mining. Harper is much better, in part because he walks so much. But Harper and Lind in the same sentence?

 

Ryan Zimmerman and Harper have both averaged 128 games over their 12 and six full years, respectively. Harper averages 84 runs, 25 homers, 70 RBI, a .285 batting average and an annual Wins Above Replacement of 4.35. Zimmerman averages 73 runs, 21 homers, 78 RBI, a .279 average and an annual WAR of 3.0.

 

Once again, Harper is better. But by how much? The past four years, Anthony Rendon has an average WAR of 4.28, just a hair lower than Harper over almost any time frame you pick. Again, Harper is extremely good. But $400 million fabulous?

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

On this same day, Tom Boswell writes a column that sticks a pin in the Bryce Harper Glory Balloon.  Boz argues that yeah, Bryce is good, but maybe he isn't the once-in-a-generation player we all thought he was.  He questions his leadership, and compares giving him a long-term mega deal to the Caps and Ovechkin, saying that that deal is now a bit of an albatross for the Caps. 

 

Trouble in paradise.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/bryce-harper-is-a-year-from-free-agency-so-whats-he-really-worth/2017/10/19/907c83aa-b4e0-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html?utm_term=.3ca314d22d25

Boswell is a schil and a homer.

 

You can't take his Nats related views series, except that he getting people ready for Harper playing elsewhere in 2019.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Harper hasn't hit his prime yet.  

 

Anyway, I hope you guys are happy about Dusty not coming back.  IMO, bad move, depending upon who they replace him with, of course.

[TheGoodBits]

24 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Wait what?

 

 

 

Serves me right for reading while distracted. 

 

My frustration with Boswell stands though. Harper just turned 25. Lumping his early career and injured season stats in with the age 22 and 24 MVP/top 5 NL player seasons isn’t any way to measure a player’s worth. 

 

And his snarky “Mr October” comment is misplaced. Without Harper they lose each series he’s played in at least one game earlier.

[Riggo#44]

I have a hard time believing they'll get anyone worth a damned--after the way they treated Black, and now Dusty...

[queso87]

It would be the definition of insanity to assume that Dusty Baker wouldn't lead them to an early playoff exit next year too. It is what. Dusty. does.

[Bozo the kKklown]

4 minutes ago, queso87 said:

It would be the definition of insanity to assume that Dusty Baker wouldn't lead them to an early playoff exit next year too. It is what. Dusty. does.

its not the definition of insanity... (thats another thread but Einstein was not a psychologist nor did he actually say that)

[CRobi21]

Could explain his second half slide.. 

 

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

Tough for Murphy. That probably means he is finished here. Difo starts at 2nd.

[Riggo#44]

Just now, BenningRoadSkin said:

Tough for Murphy. That probably means he is finished here. Difo starts at 2nd.

 

Why is he finished here?

[Bozo the kKklown]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Why is he finished here?

micro-fracture knee surgery.

 

Those are career changing and takes a lot of time to recover from. And when you get back, you do not move the same based on what we have seen in the NBA. A guy with not the best range at second base just got worst.

 

And he is entering his age 33 season.

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

micro-fracture knee surgery.

 

Those are career changing and takes a lot of time to recover from. And when you get back, you do not move the same based on what we have seen in the NBA. A guy with not the best range at second base just got worst.

 

I guess we'll see, but the NBA and baseball are two entirely different sports. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

Just now, Riggo#44 said:

 

I guess we'll see, but the NBA and baseball are two entirely different sports. 

totally

but the position he plays requires a lot of the same movement as bball players. And no idea what it means for him at bat. This is not a good look.

[ixcuincle]

The problem was he was doing a good job despite what detractors will say. Anything can happen in the playoffs so firing him for something that wasn't his fault (hitters going stone cold) is kind of odd. My thoughts: if they're going to drop Baker like this, you better have a good candidate lined up to replace him. And that person at this time is who? 

 

Cora is allegedly in talks to be the Red Sox manager. So cross him off. 

 

You could hire Farrell but Farrell has baggage and has also lacked postseason success with pretty good regular season teams. 

 

So who do you hire? 

[@DCGoldPants]

97 wins, 95 wins, 83 wins, 96 wins, 86 wins, 98 wins all since 2012. I think that's saying a lot more about the roster makeup than what the manager has done since that’s across 3 different guys. 

 

I bet whoever they hire it's going to be over 90 wins because of the talent here and the issues on other teams in the division. Atl and Philly will be better. Miami and NY will be down I think.

[Renegade7]

What about that guy that used to coach the Red Sox and won a championship?  Is he already signed with somebody?  Not a fan if its true the Lerners went around Rizzo to drop Dusty, but with our postseason futility, can you blame them?

49 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

I bet whoever they hire it's going to be over 90 wins because of the talent here and the issues on other teams in the division. Atl and Philly will be better. Miami and NY will be down I think.

 

 

This what concerns me about this team.  We beat up on the division, but the second the Braves or Mets put out a good team, we're odd team out.  This is on top of never making it out of NLDS despite the talent we have.

[PleaseBlitz]

1 hour ago, ixcuincle said:

The problem was he was doing a good job despite what detractors will say. Anything can happen in the playoffs so firing him for something that wasn't his fault (hitters going stone cold) is kind of odd. My thoughts: if they're going to drop Baker like this, you better have a good candidate lined up to replace him. And that person at this time is who? 

 

Cora is allegedly in talks to be the Red Sox manager. So cross him off. 

 

You could hire Farrell but Farrell has baggage and has also lacked postseason success with pretty good regular season teams. 

 

So who do you hire? 

 

I'll be so pissed if they hire Farrell.  Lets fire a guy b/c he lost in the NLDS so we can hire the guy that lost the ALDS.  

[@DCGoldPants]

28 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

What about that guy that used to coach the Red Sox and won a championship?  Is he already signed with somebody?  Not a fan if its true the Lerners went around Rizzo to drop Dusty, but with our postseason futility, can you blame them?

 

This what concerns me about this team.  We beat up on the division, but the second the Braves or Mets put out a good team, we're odd team out.  This is on top of never making it out of NLDS despite the talent we have.

 

Can only play the teams on their schedule. They did fine against the rest of the teams this year also. 

 

There is something intangible that has been missing. Can't replace all the players. Over the years, a lot have been replaced already. 

[ixcuincle]

Every time the teams tried to "Move on" to the next guy they failed and never really got over the hump. Let's be honest, the Giants, Cubs, and Reds all were possible playoff teams. People got tired of Dusty and chased him out. But what happened after that? 

 

Giants

Dusty left after 2002. In 2003 Giants went 100-61. They lost in the DS 3-1. They went 91-71 in 2004 and then didn't make the playoffs until 2010 when they won it all. 

 

Cubs

Dusty joined the Cubs from 2003 to 2006. By the way, they won a playoff series, so there goes your narrative that he can't win playoff series. In 2007, the Cubs went 85-77. They lost in the NLDS 0-3. They lost the next year in 2008 0-3. Then they went cold for a while until 2015. 

 

Reds

Dusty joined the Reds and managed them for 5 years. They lost a NLDS and a play in game. Then the Reds moved on. The Reds afterwards went 76-86 (2014), 64-98 (2015), 68-94 (2016), and 68-94 (2017). 

 

So what is the end game for firing Baker? People wanted him gone because they wanted to take that next step, "win that playoff series". But how many of the teams afterwards really did that? How many took that step forward? 

[Bacon]

A child could guide this roster to the playoffs. Might as well find someone without a bunch of playoff baggage to get us over the hump. 

 

And I believe we will find someone worth a damn. Seriously, this is a dream job.

12 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

Every time the teams tried to "Move on" to the next guy they failed and never really got over the hump. Let's be honest, the Giants, Cubs, and Reds all were possible playoff teams. People got tired of Dusty and chased him out. But what happened after that? 

 

Windows close. Rosters don't stay talent-packed forever. We were great long before Dusty showed up and we'll be great with someone else. 

[Bacon]

3 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I'll be so pissed if they hire Farrell.  Lets fire a guy b/c he lost in the NLDS so we can hire the guy that lost the ALDS.  

 

A guy that's won a World Series, you mean? His team got pounded by a superior team this year. That's not playoff baggage. 

[Riggo#44]

The media bashing in the aftermath has been fantastic. Thom Loverro has been hot taking all afternoon. Apparently, Rizzo wanted Cal, but the Lerners said no.

[Bacon]

The journalists trashing us now are the same ones that trashed Dusty's decisions all NLDS this year and last year. It is what it is. 

 

FWIW, I'm furious that they let Maddux go. I can't think of any rationale for that. 

[ixcuincle]

21 minutes ago, Bacon said:

The journalists trashing us now are the same ones that trashed Dusty's decisions all NLDS this year and last year. It is what it is. 

 

FWIW, I'm furious that they let Maddux go. I can't think of any rationale for that. 

 

Unless he is rehired as the manager it's a dumb move. 

45 minutes ago, Bacon said:

A child could guide this roster to the playoffs. Might as well find someone without a bunch of playoff baggage to get us over the hump. 

 

And I believe we will find someone worth a damn. Seriously, this is a dream job.

 

Windows close. Rosters don't stay talent-packed forever. We were great long before Dusty showed up and we'll be great with someone else. 

 

Are you sure about that? The Nats didn't make the playoffs for consecutive years until Dusty took over. 

Man you are awfully positive that we can find a replacement for Baker. The same Lerners who allegedly piss off candidates by lowballing them? Managers do not grow on trees!