Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

[Going Commando]

Argue that the National Anthem is racist and that we need a new one based on an obscure verse that is never sung and has nothing to do with the way the anthem has been used for generations and you lose the attention and support of 200 million white people who will think that black people are ****ting on America.  You will have made the racist white nationalists look right over something that's irrelevant to race relations in present day America.

[Springfield]

I vote for Jimi Hendrix's version of the Star Spangled Banner.

[TheGreatBuzz]

33 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

On the one hand, I think we can separate the verses of the Star Spangled Banner on the basis of history.  Basically, we disown the other verses while more or less adopting the mainly used verse as the whole thing.

Simultaneously, I get why some might be perturbed, and frankly, it ties Kaep's protest together in a much neater bow than before.

It would make his protest neater if he actually knew that about the anthem.  Everyone who thinks he did, raise your hand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now slap youself.

[DogofWar1]

Well, he probably didn't at the time.  He likely does now.  At the end of the day whether he meant to involve the anthem in that way or not, it's probably involved now.

[grego]

2 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

Systemic doesn't necessarily mean the government, but at times the government has engaged in it. 

And I think school vouchers have either been used before, or are still in use in some places, I haven't researched how it's turned out in those cases although I believe it would be better for the students, but still a disadvantage if the student's home environment isn't conducive to allowing the child to grow. 

In what way has the government engaged in it? (not challenging you, just trying to get info) 

True enough about the home environment. I dated a teacher before. Some parents couldn't be less involved. Family is everything. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by grego

[Kilmer17]

In a league full of rapists, abusers, druggies etc, people are feigning anger about Colin Kaepernick sitting down during the national anthem?

 

smfh

Good for Colin   He's a moron   But I support his right to be a moron

 

 

[BornaSkinsFan83]

 

/runs away

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I've come to two conclusions.

1. People should stand for the national anthem.

2. I don't get to make that decision for everybody.

 

yet.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Springfield]

8 hours ago, BornaSkinsFan83 said:

/runs away

 

I saw this yesterday and I think it's dumb.  I think Trump is a douche for all the inflammatory things he's said and I think Kaepernick is a douche (although not even close to the same level) for what he did.

[Springfield]

Also, has anyone bothered researching this 3rd verse in the National Anthem?

 

It seems that the slavery mentioned in that verse refers to American sailors being impressed into British service.  Not sure that this has any reference to African slavery at all.

[HooHog]

#veteransforkaepernick went massively trending yesterday into today.  Just something to think about.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/31/us/veterans-for-kaepernick-trnd/index.html

[Bozo the kKklown]

12 minutes ago, Springfield said:

It seems that the slavery mentioned in that verse refers to American sailors being impressed into British service.  Not sure that this has any reference to African slavery at all.

They were slaves from the US who the British emancipated and enlisted.

After the war was over, the US wanted their "property" back, but the British told them to kick rocks and a lot of them moved to Canada, Trinidad, and England.

10 hours ago, BornaSkinsFan83 said:

 

/runs away

exactly

[Springfield]

7 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

They were slaves from the US who the British emancipated and enlisted.

After the war was over, the US wanted their "property" back, but the British told them to kick rocks and a lot of them moved to Canada, Trinidad, and England.

 

Nothing I've read states that.  Do you have any sources?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressment

mpressment, colloquially, "the press" or the "press gang", refers to the act of taking men into a military or naval force by compulsion, with or without notice. Navies of several nations used forced recruitment by various means. The large size of the British Royal Navy in the Age of Sail meant impressment was most commonly associated with Britain. It was used by the Royal Navy in wartime, beginning in 1664 and during the 18th and early 19th centuries as a means of crewing warships, although legal sanction for the practice goes back to the time of Edward I of England. The Royal Navy impressed many merchant sailors, as well as some sailors from other nations. People liable to impressment were "eligible men of seafaring habits between the ages of 18 and 55 years". Non-seamen were impressed as well, though rarely.

...

The impressment of seamen from American ships caused serious tensions between Britain and the United States in the years leading up to the War of 1812. After the defeat of Napoleon in 1814, Britain ended the practice; later conscription was not limited to the Royal Navy but covered all armed forces.

[Bozo the kKklown]

3 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

Nothing I've read states that.  Do you have any sources?

 

Quote

 

Fighting for Both Sides in the War
Charles Ball, as a free man, was lucky enough to have a choice.  Besides the Navy and privateering, there were even a few black battalions in the American army.  But for most American slaves, the options were limited to the British navy.  When the British fleet arrived in the Chesapeake Bay in March 1813, entire families of slaves made their way by canoe to the enemy ships.  The British commanders had orders to welcome these refugee slaves, but also to take care not to encourage an outright rebellion against their white masters.  The British did not want insurrection among blacks to spread to their own slave-holding territories in the West Indies.

The slave owners, naturally, were furious at the loss of what they thought of as “property,” and sent delegations to the British demanding that the slaves be returned. Even Charles Ball, a former slave, tried to convince escaped slaves to come back to U.S. soil.  He “went amongst them” he records in his memoir, “And talked to them a long time, on the subject of returning home; but found that their heads were full of notions of liberty and happiness in some of the West India islands’.”

Ball would soon be fighting against some of the very black men he had tried to convince.  As a seaman and cook, he served in the Chesapeake Flotilla under Commodore Joshua Barney.  After Barney ordered the flotilla sunk to keep the boats our of the hands of the invading British, Ball marched to Bladensburg with Barney and served in one of his cannon crews.  His memoir describes what later came to be called the Bladensburg Races:

“I stood at my gun, until the Commodore was shot down, when he ordered us to retreat, as I was told by the officer who commanded our gun. If the militia regiments, that lay upon our right and left, could have been brought to charge the British, in close fight, as they crossed the bridge, we should have killed or taken the whole of them in a short time; but the militia ran like sheep chased by dogs.”

 

http://www.pbs.org/wned/war-of-1812/essays/black-soldier-and-sailors-war/

 

Edited August 31, 2016 by BenningRoadSkin

[grego]

16 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

exactly

 

you cant possibly believe that the kaep and trump stances are the same. I refuse to believe that you actually believe that, let alone believe that that's an example of white privilege.

[Bozo the kKklown]

9 minutes ago, grego said:

 

you cant possibly believe that the kaep and trump stances are the same. I refuse to believe that you actually believe that, let alone believe that that's an example of white privilege.

I am not going to explain it to you. I am done doing that with those that are willfully obtuse on these matters.

[grego]

3 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I am not going to explain it to you. I am done doing that with those that are willfully obtuse on these matters.

 

are you kidding? what have I said that makes me willfully obtuse?

[Gamebreaker]

1 hour ago, Springfield said:

Also, has anyone bothered researching this 3rd verse in the National Anthem?

 

It seems that the slavery mentioned in that verse refers to American sailors being impressed into British service.  Not sure that this has any reference to African slavery at all.

 

What I've seen states Black slaves were given to opportunity to fight for their freedom by fighting for the British. And Key, was directly referencing them. I can't find a solid number that took up arms, but we know 6k survived the war and the US wanted their "property" back. The British kept their word and refused. 

http://www.revolutionary-war.net/slavery-and-the-revolutionary-war.html

http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/29/star-spangled-banner-and-slavery/

Edited August 31, 2016 by Gamebreaker

[Gamebreaker]

13 hours ago, grego said:

In what way has the government engaged in it? (not challenging you, just trying to get info)  

 

Nixon's war on drugs targeted the black community specifically. http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/

There is also Clinton's era where we've seen Blacks sentenced longer for the same crimes as  Non-blacks. 

[justice98]

15 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Argue that the National Anthem is racist and that we need a new one based on an obscure verse that is never sung and has nothing to do with the way the anthem has been used for generations and you lose the attention and support of 200 million white people who will think that black people are ****ting on America.  You will have made the racist white nationalists look right over something that's irrelevant to race relations in present day America.

It's just one of those things white people will just never get. These symbols were meant for only a certain segment of people. Dropping verses doesnt change that.  Personally, minorities should stop expecting the white majority to understand.  They're just not interested.  

And the racist white nationalists will look right to whom?

Edited August 31, 2016 by justice98

[Duckus]

[grego]

8 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

Nixon's war on drugs targeted the black community specifically. http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/

There is also Clinton's era where we've seen Blacks sentenced longer for the same crimes as  Non-blacks. 

this sounds like something I can dig into- at least the second part-I have no doubt that the government has engaged in this behavior before.

I'm trying to understands Kaep sitting and linking it with something more current. the sentencing thing may be something.

 

[SemperFi Skins]

Tired of the white privilege bull****... It's rich people privilege, not just white people. I worked for everything I ****ing got, and worked my damn ass off, never handed a damn thing, I just happen to be white and I've made something of myself.

[Springfield]

17 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

What I've seen states Black slaves were given to opportunity to fight for their freedom by fighting for the British. And Key, was directly referencing them. 

http://www.revolutionary-war.net/slavery-and-the-revolutionary-war.html

http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/29/star-spangled-banner-and-slavery/

As it seems to me, trying to be objective, is that it likely included slaves (African) fighting for their freedom, slaves forced into service by the British, as well as non-slaves forced into service.

According to ththe Snopes article, there were two units of black slaves fighting for their freedom for the British.  However, there were 6,000 pieces of "property" to be returned after the war of 1812.  Leads me to believe that the British also took slaves for their own use.

 

That said, I don't and probably won't ever view the British as the "good guys" during colonialism.  Their power spread far, and we are the result of a rebellion to their rule.  White and black alike.  For as menacing as Americans were during that period, I firmly believe that th British were the enemy.

 

My whole thing, is that on social medial all I'm hearing is "Oooh, that racist, slave owning Francis Scott Key wrote about killing slaves in the National Anthem.  Secret verses ****es!!!"  And I don't think that's entirely accurate.  I think it's one of many social media pieces of misinformation floating around to incite anger and hatred, intended or not.

 

[DM72]

Not sure why this is still an issue. I personally think people are overreacting and just want to complain about something.

Kaepernick CLEARLY stated this is not an anti-military protest. Even the military themselves are backing him.

You know it's time to move on when Tony Stewart is calling someone else an idiot. 

#VeteransForKaepernick