Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Sometimes I read things on here and say to myself, "boy I wish I would've thought of that in ____ situation". Let me tap into the collective intelligence of ES. How would you respond to the below. ----------- Quote from a WWII veteran overhearing someone say that `You can't bomb an ideology." "The hell you can't. Because we did it. These Muslims are no different than the Imperial Japanese. The Japs had their suicide bombers too. And we stopped them. What it takes is the resolve and will to use a level of brutality and violence that your generations can't stomach. And until you can, this **** won't stop. It took us on the beaches with bullets, clearing out caves with flame throwers, and men like LeMay burning down their cities killing people by the tens of thousands. And then it took 2 atom bombs on top of it. But if that was what it took to win we were willing to do it. Until you are willing to do the same...well I hope you enjoy this ****, because it ain't going to stop." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 The Japanese weren't ideological belligerents—they were politically motivated. One might say that's too fine a distinction to make, but I think it needs to be made. There's other theories, well respected/accepted, that the Japanese were ready to capitulate before the atom bombs because the Russians had overrun them in China and now they were fighting a two front war. The use of the atom bombs had the "secondary" effect of signaling to Russia to not **** with us—we have The Bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 "You're a moron. Have a nice day." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 the japanese did not attack with single disaffected individuals under no central command acting on their own against innocent civilians using methods designed to inflict fear rather than capture territory,, which is what the "imperial" part of "imperial japanese" means. The Japanese suicide bombers attacked military targets.. not marketplaces. While the Japanese were a brutal occupation force, the current enemy does not then occupy the lands in which it attacks. A single person attacks, kills themselves as part of it, and there is no follow up to secure any military objective. So the bottom line is,, it's not the same at all. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 Thank you gentlemen. Credit to multiple ES sources in this thread and in others for content that I blatantly stole. Please check back again in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Ask him to name one religion that's been killed out of existence. Tell him he's welcome to finish his Ensure while he thinks about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 So is he suggesting that we have to kill all Muslims with flamethrowers? Because it is what he appears to be suggesting. A war with a nation-state is completely different than a conflict with an underground radical movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 So is he suggesting that we have to kill all Muslims with flamethrowers? Because it is what he appears to be suggesting. A war with a nation-state is completely different than a conflict with an underground radical movement. Yeah, but you young kids just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSilverMaC Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 While I disagree with the premise that we could bomb enough people to end radicalism of any sort, I think Russia (not condoning or saying Russia is a role model to be followed) has had a large amount of success with Chechen and Georgian radicals by making families of suicide bombers/radical militants disappear. Not 100% but drastically reduced from what it was 7 or 8 years ago. But as I said above, the Russian model is one I would hope would never be followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 By the by,, we didn't destroy the sentiment in Japan.. there are still ultra nationalists who feel that they should not have given up and want to renew a lot of the crap that got them into trouble in the first place. People who still believe the Emperor is a direct descendant of the god of the Sun, and as such was divinely correct in his aggressions.. or liberations as they see it. So all we did was bomb enough sense into enough people to get them to take their power away. We couldn't even bomb Nazism out of existence, and it's been steadily making louder and louder noises under a lot of different names. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 I don't agree 100% with the OP but there is something to be said about the way we fight wars nowadays and is that the best method. We haven't decisively won a war since we started letting cameras follow troops around on the battlefields. War is ugly and I don't think showing it to those sitting at home is the best way to go about it. It's at least worth a discussiin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSilverMaC Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 I don't agree 100% with the OP but there is something to be said about the way we fight wars nowadays and is that the best method. We haven't decisively won a war since we started letting cameras follow troops around on the battlefields. War is ugly and I don't think showing it to those sitting at home is the best way to go about it. It's at least worth a discussiin. The issue though is one that's been touched on. We can bomb/pummel an opposing military into submission. We've done it with ease in our last 3 wars. There are maybe 3 or 4 militaries in the known solar system capable of fighting a traditional war against us and go more than a year without getting swept off the battlefield. If you're smart, you don't go toe to toe with the U.S military. You fight a guerrila campaign, and that's what we've seen going all the way back to Vietnam nam. The Iraqi military was the 4th largest standing military in the work before desert storm, not so much afterwards. Who do you bomb when some random ****boi decides he's going to be a suicide bomber or plan a mass shooting/massacre? It's hard enough to answer that when it's someone who immigrated from the m.e or Africa, but it gets even more confusing when that person is one of your own citizens. Old school carpet bombing causes more issues than it would solve in this war. It gives the recruiters all the material they need to generate more effective propaganda and swell their ranks as we've already seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 I was going to respond, but then arrived at the same conclusion as you. We've been fighting unwinnable wars for awhile now. Has nothing to do with cameras. Cameras only affected people at home who thought that war was anything but an awful, rabbit hole descent, that few can comprehend. Im not sure how you "Win" stuff like what we're currently fighting. It's like whackamole. You defeat one, and another one pops up in its place. It's a nevernding cycle of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Considering that ISIS also actively blows up Islamic countries, I don't see them being particularly concerned about us doing it. In fact, it'll probably help their recruiting efforts when all the villagers see what the big bad Americans did. I'm not saying not to bomb those countries, but random bombing isn't going to discourage ISIS, and might actually empower them. I'm not even sure why you'd draw parallels between the two. Obviously any loss of an innocent life is one too many, but the number of deaths in WWII completely dwarfs everything related to ISIS. There were 60M deaths related to WW2 (across all combatants) during the 6 years from 9/1939 to 9/1945. That's ~18k deaths a day, or roughly six September 11s happening every day for all six years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 So back to the original point of the thread, I have a similar story. (I'm going to censor one part of it because I doubt the filter will, and it's up there with stuff that is censored on here in terms of slur factor.) Georgiaredskin spent, as you might guess, a lot of time in Georgia. One year she and I took a road trip to Georgia to visit her friends there. We took a day trip to Andersonville to tour the site and pay our respects. The only other patrons in the gift shop that day were an elderly man and his wife. The man had a WW2 Vet hat on, so I thanked him for his service. Out of nowhere he said, "You know when the Army went downhill? When they started letting the p**** m****** in." I was dumbfounded. I was literally speechless. His poor wife apologized and started urging him towards the door. I got the impression this happens frequently. What, if anything, should I have said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Nothing. Just let him live the rest of his years in peaceful ignorance, so it can (hopefully) die with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 So back to the original point of the thread, I have a similar story. (I'm going to censor one part of it because I doubt the filter will, and it's up there with stuff that is censored on here in terms of slur factor.) Georgiaredskin spent, as you might guess, a lot of time in Georgia. One year she and I took a road trip to Georgia to visit her friends there. We took a day trip to Andersonville to tour the site and pay our respects. The only other patrons in the gift shop that day were an elderly man and his wife. The man had a WW2 Vet hat on, so I thanked him for his service. Out of nowhere he said, "You know when the Army went downhill? When they started letting the p**** m****** in." I was dumbfounded. I was literally speechless. His poor wife apologized and started urging him towards the door. I got the impression this happens frequently. What, if anything, should I have said? I'm not even sure what the thing you censored is supposed to say. About 15 years ago I took my grandfather out to lunch for Veterans Day. He was a WW2 vet/POW. His plane had got shot done and he was on the run. Apparently he tried to get a French family to hide him but they turned him over to the Germans. Anyways, we are out at lunch and the waitress came to get our order. She turned around to go put it in and when she was literally 2 steps away from us he said quite loudly (he was almost deaf) "Boy she had some big knockers on her!". I just said "Yes Grandpa but you can't say that out loud." He goes on this long rant about how he didn't fight for his country to be told what he could and couldn't say. Then proceeded to say, again quite loudly, how he wouldn't have needed to fight if the French weren't such p*****'s, how they should have used "the bomb" on the Germans because NONE of them should have been allowed to live, how the Jews were "okay people I guess" and "probably didn't deserve that", the Polish were even bigger p*****'s than the French, etc. I just let him go because it was Veterans day and, in a way, I felt like he had earned the right to say it if he wished. He had 4 Purple Hearts and would make us kids feel the dent in his skull where the French farmer hit him with a shovel. He was 80 pounds when he got out of the POW camp. He was normally around 200 pounds. I'm not saying what he said was right. But I understood where it came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 It rhymes with torch funkies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 ahhhh........got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Seeing someone burn a flag make you angry? Imagine seeing another country kill your family. Rome is burning, maybe more fire isn't the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 It rhymes with torch funkies. I thought it was penis munchers but then I realized I miscounted an *. I still didn't figure it out until you posted this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 I figured that whatever he said, was I sulting brown or black people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Yeah, I was trying to walk the fine line between just putting it out there vs. accidentally making it impossible to understand. Ultimately, considering the way black people I know feel about the phrase I figured censoring was the best thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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