The Supreme Court, and abortion.

[Cooked Crack]

47 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Right. Let Alabama do what Alabama wants. Let California do what California wants. It’s not that hard.

That sounds very absolute. You okay with Jim Crow coming back if that's what Alabama wanted?

[NoCalMike]

22 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

That sounds very absolute. You okay with Jim Crow coming back if that's what Alabama wanted?

 

Exactly. There is a reason why states rights still have to follow the guidelines of the constitution and what the Supreme Court has ruled is the law of the land.  States rights do have limits in certain situations. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

28 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

That sounds very absolute. You okay with Jim Crow coming back if that's what Alabama wanted?

 

 

I wouldn’t be OK with it but I don’t live in Alabama.  Prejudice exists whether there are laws or not. If Alabama chose to enact Jim Crow laws what do you think the consequences would be?

 

 

Also, you can’t control what race you are but you can control your body re pregnancy so I would suggest the two cases are not remotely the same.

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by CousinsCowgirl84

[twa]

48 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Actually, if you really want to restrict the poll to only people affected, that would be pregnant women who want abortions in Alabama. 

 

Is that really the poll you want to see?  Or was this more a case of "try to find an excuse to ignore, whether it actually makes sense or not"?  

 

Last I checked the only people affected do not get a special vote , just that states elected officials.

 

I don't know how what you typed is supposed to make sense.

[Berggy9598]

33 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

I wouldn’t be OK with it but I don’t live in Alabama.  Prejudice exists whether there are laws or not. If Alabama chose to enact Jim Crow laws what do you think the consequences would be?

 

 

Also, you can’t control what race you are but you can control your body re pregnancy so I would suggest the two cases are not remotely the same.

 

What choice do women impregnated by rape have? 

[nonniey]

 

 

Which posters who post here want unrestricted abortion at anytime for any reason to remain a legal option for States?

 

 

Which posters want abortion totally banned?

[Springfield]

34 minutes ago, nonniey said:

 

 

Which posters who post here want unrestricted abortion at anytime for any reason to remain a legal option for States?

 

 

Which posters want abortion totally banned?

 

I think you’ll find none of the above.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 hour ago, Berggy9598 said:

What choice do women impregnated by rape have? 

 

What does the Alabama law say about rape?

 

51 minutes ago, nonniey said:

 

 

Which posters who post here want unrestricted abortion at anytime for any reason to remain a legal option for States

 

I think it should be left up to the state.  I see no reason to believe the federal government is more adept at creating morality than a state government.

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by CousinsCowgirl84

[nonniey]

20 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

I think you’ll find none of the above.

Oh It think there is at least one   are at least two and maybe three that wants unrestricted abortion to remain legally permissible in the United States. Was just wondering if there were others.

 

As for totally banned I don't have any candidates.  

 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by nonniey

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

What does the Alabama law say about rape?

 

 

Theres no exceptions for rape or incest.  You're too deep in this conversation not to know that.

 

1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I think it should be left up to the state.  I see no reason to believe the federal government is more adept at this than a state government.

 

 

I've heard this arguement before, it's more to circumvent the federal government then that the fed doesnt know what its doing.

5 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Oh It think there is at least one  at least two and maybe three that wants the unrestricted abortion to remain the legally permissible in the United States. Was just wondering if there were others.

 

As for totally banned I don't have any candidates.  

 

 

 

I support what Vermont is doing right now.

[nonniey]

13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

I support what Vermont is doing right now.

Wow I guess I underestimated (that's two I wasn't tracking).  I thought LadySkinFan would be the only one (and maybe BenningRoadSkin) that was for allowing unrestricted abortion at anytime for any reason. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by nonniey

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Wow I guess I underestimated (that's two I wasn't tracking).  I thought only LadySkinFan would be the only one (and maybe BenningRoadSkin) that was for allowing unrestricted abortion at anytime for any reason. 

 

It's already been stated in the thread abortions after 7 months only make up about 1% of abortions.  Jus because the narrative is women getting abortions whenever they want doesnt mean that's what they are doing.  Vermont is guaranteeing the choice stays between the mother and the doctor, taking the state out of it.  It doesnt matter how I feel about abortion, that's how it should be, only a matter of time until it was enforced by law.  The state cant be trusted to find a middle ground.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

18 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Theres no exceptions for rape or incest.  You're too deep in this conversation not to know that.

 

I guess i should have googled it. It is backwards to say even if you were raped you can’t have an abortion.

 

 

Quote

 

I've heard this arguement before, it's more to circumvent the federal government then that the fed doesnt know what its doing.

 

Well... the federal government is leaning more Alabamas way than Vermont’s... Supreme Court and all. 

 

 

Quote

 

I support what Vermont is doing right now.

 

If that’s what people who live in Vermont want to do, I’m fine with it.

 

 

the federal government is too fractured to say that who wins the election had a mandate to do anything. It’s always 50/50 down to a few hundred thousand votes spread across a few states. 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

Well... the federal government is leaning more Alabamas way than Vermont’s... Supreme Court and all. 

 

 

Republicans in DC are already saying this went too far, I doubt they get behind this, it will cost them votes and they know it.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

Republicans in DC are already saying this went too far, I doubt they get behind this, it will cost them votes and they know it.

 

 

Which is kind of my point. There are consequences to decisions.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

Which is kind of my point. There are consequences to decisions.

 

I thought your point was republicans in federal government and supreme court supported the Alabama law, I'm confused.

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, Berggy9598 said:

What choice do women impregnated by rape have? 

 

They shouldn't have dressed like that.

 

21 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Wow I guess I underestimated (that's two I wasn't tracking).  I thought LadySkinFan would be the only one (and maybe BenningRoadSkin) that was for allowing unrestricted abortion at anytime for any reason. 

 

I'm pro-life but I support what Vermont law is.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

I wouldn’t be OK with it but I don’t live in Alabama.  Prejudice exists whether there are laws or not. If Alabama chose to enact Jim Crow laws what do you think the consequences would be?

 

 

Also, you can’t control what race you are but you can control your body re pregnancy so I would suggest the two cases are not remotely the same.

 

 

 

[nonniey]

29 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

It's already been stated in the thread abortions after 7 months only make up about 1% of abortions.  Jus because the narrative is women getting abortions whenever they want doesnt mean that's what they are doing.  Vermont is guaranteeing the choice stays between the mother and the doctor, taking the state out of it.  It doesnt matter how I feel about abortion, that's how it should be, only a matter of time until it was enforced by law.  The state cant be trusted to find a middle ground.

The 1%-1.5% is after 5 months actually.  It has also been pointed out that a significant percentage (possibly over half?) of that 1-1.5% (3k-10K a year) are of fetuses that are viable (some perfectly healthy others may have challenges like cleft lips, club feet, Down syndrome, etc)  and don't pose a risk to the mother.  So you are ok with 3-10 thousand viable fetuses killed a year? 

 

And don't forget Gosnell was a doctor with a profit motive for the abortions he performed. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by nonniey

[Springfield]

12 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

They shouldn't have dressed like that.

 

 

I was gonna make the same joke, decided against rape jokes.  Later I’ll pop a dead baby joke to make up for it.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I thought your point was republicans in federal government and supreme court supported the Alabama law, I'm confused.

 

Multiple points,

 

But Alabama has the support of the Supreme Court..

 

 And the court of public opinion is also important (which is what you pointed to when you said republicans in Washington won’t support the bill) and that probably leans more Vermont’s way.

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

I was gonna make the same joke, decided against rape jokes.  Later I’ll pop a dead baby joke to make up for it.

While it was somewhat a joke, it was also saying what the GOP position boils down to.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

11 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

What the hell!

 

 

Im not sure exactly which part you object to but I hope what I was trying to say wasn’t unclear. Jim Crow laws are absolutely unacceptable. I would hope (expect) the consequences of enacting such laws would be politically impossible.

[nonniey]

19 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

They shouldn't have dressed like that.

 

 

I'm pro-life but I support what Vermont law is.

If you support the Vermont law you can't possibly be pro-life. Lets be clear a woman can be due in an hour and legally abort the child for any reason.  Yes most doctors wouldn't perform such an abortion nor would most women chose to do so but do you do you really want it to be a legal option for the exceptions to the rule????

Edited May 21, 2019 by nonniey

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, nonniey said:

The 1%-1.5% is after 5 months actually.  It has also been pointed out that a significant percentage (possibly over half?) of that 1-1.5% (3k-10K a year) are of fetuses that are viable (some perfectly healthy others may have challenges like cleft lips club feet, Down syndrome etc)  and don't pose a risk to the mother.  So you are ok with 3-10 thousand viable fetuses killed a year? 

 

It doesnt matter what I'm okay with, it's not my call, and I can live with that.  I dont support controlling the reproductive rights of tens of million of women over 3-10 thousand fetuses.  Like I said, please dont try to use my heart against me.

 

This is from CDC.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm

 

Quote

Women in their twenties accounted for the majority of abortions in 2015 and throughout the period of analysis. The majority of abortions in 2015 took place early in gestation: 91.1% of abortions were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation; a smaller number of abortions (7.6%) were performed at 14–20 weeks’ gestation, and even fewer (1.3%) were performed at ≥21 weeks’ gestation. In 2015, 24.6% of all abortions were early medical abortions (a non-surgical abortion at ≤8 weeks’ gestation). The percentage of abortions reported as early medical abortions increased 114% from 2006 to 2015, with an 8% increase from 2014 to 2015. Source: Abortion Surveillance — United States, 2015. MMWR Surveill Summ 2018;67(No. SS-13).