Fergasun Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 We had a family discusssion on this and essentially my wife and I have different philosiphies as Christians. This debate or discussion is never held by conservatives, but I think it is important and our teenagers listened to the discussion we had. My philosophy is that society should be more free/"liberal" because God allows free-will and he doesn't want people to follow him out of any motive but free-will and choice. People should not be restrained from bad decisions and choices. Besides, when people make bad choices -- when they turn toward God and repent, their forgiveness is greater (this is not talking about.Christians abusing this to sin, but people who have genuinely gone down the wrong path). My ideal situation is one where abortion is legal, but no one gets one. if people do choose abortion I want it done safely. Her philosphy is that as Christians we should push for guard-rails in society that keep people from going over certain boundaries. Its universally accepted that murder is evil. Especially since we have a moral teacher in Jesus, Christians should work to protect people from making bad choices and stand on the moral authority of the Bible, so its okay to democratically institute abortion bans. Her ideal situation is that laws will guide behavior and people will follow the laws. I can't help but think that both of us are correct in some form and we are discussing from the front and back of a similar coin... but the laws in society we advocate for will end up on different sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 Snyder Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 33 minutes ago, Fergasun said: We had a family discusssion on this and essentially my wife and I have different philosiphies as Christians. This debate or discussion is never held by conservatives, but I think it is important and our teenagers listened to the discussion we had. My philosophy is that society should be more free/"liberal" because God allows free-will and he doesn't want people to follow him out of any motive but free-will and choice. People should not be restrained from bad decisions and choices. Besides, when people make bad choices -- when they turn toward God and repent, their forgiveness is greater (this is not talking about.Christians abusing this to sin, but people who have genuinely gone down the wrong path). My ideal situation is one where abortion is legal, but no one gets one. if people do choose abortion I want it done safely. Her philosphy is that as Christians we should push for guard-rails in society that keep people from going over certain boundaries. Its universally accepted that murder is evil. Especially since we have a moral teacher in Jesus, Christians should work to protect people from making bad choices and stand on the moral authority of the Bible, so its okay to democratically institute abortion bans. Her ideal situation is that laws will guide behavior and people will follow the laws. I can't help but think that both of us are correct in some form and we are discussing from the front and back of a similar coin... but the laws in society we advocate for will end up on different sides. I had a discussion with myself and my philosophy as a human is that I don’t give a **** what your magical sky daddy thinks about women’s health rights. Seriously, what part of not governing the country with any particular religion do people not understand? Watch this on a loop until it sinks in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 I think if you are approaching this from what "God allows" or WWJD or "the moral authority of the Bible" and that's what society's rules should be based on, you've missed the point of the separation of church and state, AKA the Establishment Clause, AKA literally the first ten words of the Bill of Rights, which had been a bedrock constitutional and societal principal since the nation was founded until, basically, when Amy Comey Barrett was sworn in. If your interpretation of your religion means abortions are bad, they you shouldn't get an abortion or help anyone else get one. Everyone else should be free to practice their own religion (or no religion) as they interpret it. This entire conversation is about how 6 fundamentalist Christians are forcing their religious beliefs on the entire country, and that's wrong. 2 2 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 To be fair, i don;t think that is what he said. at all. our philosophy/religion frames how we view things, all of us. He said that under his view people should have freedom to do what they choose, but his view on the matter is that he hopes people would choose not to do something that is wrong under his philosophy/religious views. his wife views abortion to be murder, which is illegal, so she thinks abortion should be illegal. THAT is where the disagreement comes from ... and whether it is from religion or not ... that is the debate. is it murder or not? thinking people can come on different side of this question without being delusional bible thumping mindless-drones. for what its worth.... i am 100% pro choice, and the Arlington Diocese (Catholic) continuous thumping of this issue (the Bishop putting out letters every election saying "vote for who you want to, but if you don't vote anti-abortion you are evil and going to hell" --- even when Donald ****ing Trump is one of the choices) has driven me out of the diocese, and out of attending mass. My wife drives from Virginia to Maryland to attend mass, to avoid the butthole factor, but i just can't stomach it. That said.... intelligent people can have heartfelt opinions on this subject that bring them to either side of the debate, and it is not only foolhardy to just assume that everyone on the other side is just a mouth-breathing fanatic moron, it isn't conducive to a good solution. People don't just disagree with abortion because of heartfelt christian views, they disagree because they think it is MURDER. ----- another for what its worth... abortion existed during Jesus' time. Yet he chose to spend ALL of his effort talking about how we should care for the poor and for immigrants, and love each other above all else.. and basically be hippies.. and NONE of it talking about abortion, or being sexually oppressive, or gay bashing, or war mongering..... or basically any of the tenets of conservative "Christ"ianity .... 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 more asides... my wife had a very rough pregnancy (late stage advanced pre-eclampsia) and was in a nontrivial danger of slipping into a coma, and dying from it. She MADE me promise that if she slipped into a coma ---and lost her voice in the matter---- under no circumstances did she want to abort the baby to save her life. (24 weeks) and it was my job to hold that ground. this sucked all sorts of suck in ways that i still can't even try to express, 20 years later. the baby was born at 27 weeks, damaged by the trauma and is my (adult) child now. My wife was also damaged by the trauma, but survived and is still my wife. I cannot imagine not having either of them. if ANYONE thinks abortion is a simple cut-and-dried issue... they honestly haven't put enough painful heartfelt thought into the issue. it is a question that is heartbreakingly wrong on all sides, and there are no easy positions. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 One of my favorite bumper stickers: JESUS WAS A LIBERAL. That's why his teachings (against Roman law, which was the "hellfire and brimstone" stuff) got him into...errr, "trouble". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 My Catholic school bus had a pro choice bumper sticker on it. The priest who drove it said, "It is my job to teach you not to put yourself in a position to need an abortion. It is not the government's job to mandate thou shalt not do so." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 1 hour ago, mcsluggo said: ----- another for what its worth... abortion existed during Jesus' time. Yet he chose to spend ALL of his effort talking about how we should care for the poor and for immigrants, and love each other above all else.. and basically be hippies.. and NONE of it talking about abortion, or being sexually oppressive, or gay bashing, or war mongering..... or basically any of the tenets of conservative "Christ"ianity .... Another "something" I always pass along...He didn't say "Get a big pile of nice stuff and a big pile of guns to defend it." What He said was, "Sell your nice stuff and help the poor." It's actually in RED, btw...that's if any of this happened, as the story goes. I don't have a problem being labeled a "hippie". At all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan since a Fetus Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 I looked at my bracelet and it said WWJD? So I lit him on fire and sent him to hell - Saint Daniel Tosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 3, 2022 Author Share Posted August 3, 2022 2 hours ago, mcsluggo said: ----- another for what its worth... abortion existed during Jesus' time. Yet he chose to spend ALL of his effort talking about how we should care for the poor and for immigrants, and love each other above all else.. and basically be hippies.. and NONE of it talking about abortion, or being sexually oppressive, or gay bashing, or war mongering..... or basically any of the tenets of conservative "Christ"ianity .... I'm also pretty sure the Bible has a LOT more to say about not breaking up a marriage, than it says about not serving gay customers in your business. But guess which one they want the government to jail people for, because "my religion". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 (edited) Edited August 3, 2022 by Cooked Crack 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 It's almost like "liberal" policies are just generally popular and beneficial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Doesn’t matter. If KS gets a gop gov; next year they will ban abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 5 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said: Doesn’t matter. If KS gets a gop gov; next year they will ban abortion. Referendum was on the ballot because Kansas State Supreme Court held that the state constitution protects the right to choose. Until that's overturned governor doesn't matter. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Matt Schlapp 🤭 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 3 hours ago, Captain Wiggles said: Matt Schlapp 🤭 His wife's real name is Mercedes. Anyone who would name their child or marry someone with that name is scary. Just sayin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbyrwock Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 40 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said: His wife's real name is Mercedes. Anyone who would name their child or marry someone with that name is scary. Just sayin. Yea, if you name someone Mercedes you must be a Dumas. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 12 minutes ago, Jabbyrwock said: Yea, if you name someone Mercedes you must be a Dumas. You knew! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbyrwock Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 7 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said: You knew! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 If you're his size, I'd consider you perfect. But you already have a wife, so.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 13 hours ago, bearrock said: Referendum was on the ballot because Kansas State Supreme Court held that the state constitution protects the right to choose. Until that's overturned governor doesn't matter. If KS Is in full gop control again; they will just change their constitution. It will be interesting to see who’s running things next year in KS. It’s one thing to vote on the issue directly; it’s another thing to vote on politicians. Will those who voted no, vote for Dems this fall in KS. That’s going to be real test because this issue will be decided in the states for now, so will voters who are pro choice vote those republicans out in state legislatures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 9 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said: If KS Is in full gop control again; they will just change their constitution. Kansas has two methods of amending the constitution, both of which require approval by the voters. They already have all the control they need to get to the last step. No change in executive or legislative makeup of the Kansas government is needed to put the question before the voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 (edited) On 8/2/2022 at 4:04 PM, Fergasun said: can't help but think that both of us are correct in some form and we are discussing from the front and back of a similar coin... but the laws in society we advocate for will end up on different sides. You’re only both correct if she also advocates for policies to help the poor or otherwise disadvantaged (which extends to dealing with racism and sexism) if the only guardrails on society you want are against allowing for abortions, then you’re not a Christian carrying forward the word of your God, you’re just imposing your specific morals on others. Edited August 4, 2022 by tshile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now