Rating the Redskins' Units Post Draft

[98ORAKPO98]

Really Grant over Ross? I think Grant lost a lot of his shine last season. He was given every opportunity to emerge and didn't. Ross has speed going for him. That still might be necessary. Desean is still the only speedster of the group.

True could very well be Ross over grant.

[Robbob]

What's the story on the other kid from Temple...the older one? Maybe our new pick can coach him up...I worry about DT, but we have a couple of fat boys already

[SkinsPassion4Life]

That makes no sense. Murphy is not gonna play DT/NT, he will be on DE

 

Ioannidis is not big enough to play NT...he's a 3-4 DE

[Wrong Direction]

Re: the DL, I think a couple of points should be made.

 

1. By the end of last year, we were a MASH unit. Paea was out. Knighton was slow and exposed against a hurry up attack. Hatcher was a shell of his former self.

 

2. Since then, we've added Reyes (upgrade over Hatcher, we think), Ioannidis, a healthy Paea and a younger Murphy. We've also dramatically improved our secondary since that playoff game. So, relative to the Green Bay game, we're much better prepared to play good defense. I really don't think people realize how debilitated our D was at the end of last year. 

 

3. I'm not predicting greatness, but definitely a better ability to get to the ball from more athletic lineman and back 7. I think we'll probably be more like #15-20 against the run and much better against the pass.

 

4. The concern about a true NT is really limited to short yardage, IMO. We were very good at defending short yardage last year. I expect that to take a step back. It's where Knighton excelled in eating up space and letting others make plays. 

[goskins10]

Ioannidis is not big enough to play NT...he's a 3-4 DE

 

 

This is directly from Jay Gruden - So unless you know something about how the team that the head coach doesn't, Ioannidis will be groomed to play NT in 3-4 and DT in 4-3 configurations, which is a lot of the time. Murphy will play mostly DE unless we have injuries at OLB. So drafting Ioannidis has no impact on Trent Murphy's status.

 

From the Washington Post - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2016/05/01/jay-gruden-on-how-each-of-the-redskins-draft-picks-fit-into-the-puzzle/

 

Fifth-round pick Matt Ioannidis, defensive tackle, Temple – The Redskins finally addressed their defensive line in the fifth round, taking Ioannidis, who has played both nose tackle and end. He says he feels comfortable at either position, but Gruden indicated that coaches plan to groom the 6-foot-3, 299-pounder as a nose tackle. But, in their nickel packages, Ioannidis would likely slide over to play tackle in those four-man fronts.

 

Temple defensive lineman Matt Ioannidis in Oct. 2015. (Matt Rourke/Associated Press)

 

“He’s played the one, three, and the five [technique],” Gruden said, referring to positions along the defensive line. “I think he can gain 15 pounds and be a very good nose guard. He’s played the three-technique. I’ve seen him rush the passer very well. He was very good at the combine, very athletic. Times the snap extremely well. He’s a nuisance. He gets in the backfield and makes a lot of plays, and he hustles. What he doesn’t have maybe physically trait-wise with speed and all that stuff, he makes up for with his tenacity. That’s half the battle in pro football. The guy that plays that hard until the whistle blows, that’s what Matt’s going to give you, and we’re excited to have him.”

Ioannidis will initially play behind veteran nose tackles such as Kedric Golston, but could quickly work his way up the ranks. Washington was originally expected to take a defensive lineman higher in the draft, but team officials are encouraged by the progress that Trent Murphy is making as he transitions from linebacker to end, and they like the prospects they have in Stephen Paea and free agent additions Kendall Reyes Ziggy Hood, who will all compete with Ricky Jean Francois for the starting job opposite left end Chris Baker.

[Butters20]

I think we end up losing(from your list)

 

Darrell Young... they will probably stick paul in when they need someone there.

A Johnson on D-line

Golston on D Line

[nonniey]

That makes no sense. Murphy is not gonna play DT/NT, he will be on DE

You need to reread what was posted. He said trade Murphy (I wouldn't) for a DT/NT, not play him as one.

[RedBeast]

Thanks GoSkins...I wasn't even gonna go there...I can't change hell bent.

Ahhh trade, my bad

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

You need to reread what was posted. He said trade Murphy (I wouldn't) for a DT/NT, not play him as one.

 

But he said it because he thought Ioannidis was going to play DE...(thus making Murphy expendable in his mind)...which we know is not the case.

[Morneblade]

But he said it because he thought Ioannidis was going to play DE...(thus making Murphy expendable in his mind)...which we know is not the case.

Murphy is a project. Right now IMO he's behind Baker, Paea, Ryes, Hood and Francios. It's very possible he doesn't make the team.

[NeverSurrender]

Not sure is this has been mentioned but Im wondering what Trent Murphy's playing weight will be this year.  I hear they are looking at moving him to the line.  This could be interesting as I feel his frame is more suited for adding the weight. 

[Duckus]

Fun idea. Here are my grades.

 

QB: B

RB: D

WR: A 

TE: A

O-Line: B-

D-Line: C

 

LB: B-

CB: A

 

SS/FS: C-

[daveakl]

Yeah......I thought this thread was about something totally different. Your title is very misleading.

[CommDownMan]

Ioannidis is not big enough to play NT...he's a 3-4 DE

 

http://es.redskins.com/topic/400943-press-release-redskins-quotes-grudendoctsoncravenfullerioannidissudfelddanielsmarshall/

 

 

[Gruden] On DE Matt Ioannidis:

“Matt’s a quality person. He’s a captain on their football team and really helped establish that attitude at the University of Temple. They were very competitive this year – on defense especially – and he’s a catalyst behind it. He’s played the one, three, and the five [technique]. I think he can gain 15 pounds and be a very good nose guard. He’s played the three-technique. I’ve seen him rush the passer very well. He was very good at the combine, very athletic. Times the snap extremely well. He’s a nuisance. He gets in the backfield and makes a lot of plays, and he hustles. What he doesn’t have maybe physically trait-wise with speed and all that stuff, he makes up for with his tenacity. That’s half the battle in pro football. The guy that plays that hard until the whistle blows, that’s what Matt’s going to give you, and we’re excited to have him.”

 

I'm going to say the Redskins may think otherwise.

 

Unless he was talking about one of those plastic masks, that NBA guys wear to guard their noses.  But I have a feeling he'll break more noses, than guard.

 

edit: I was not first.  so I'll just pretend I quoted for emphasis.... 

[Bonez3]

Why can't you? Scouts and coaches grade players with health factors in mind. Shoot, we do that for fantasy football.

Reed has never played a full season. Niles Paul and Logan Paulson are coming off major injuries. It is not a guarantee that they will be as good as before and outside of reed, our tight ends are below average even when healthy.

You have to grade what's in front of you. You can't give Green Bay a B+ at QB because Rodgers might get injured. An A's an A

[Burgold]

Yeah......I thought this thread was about something totally different. Your title is very misleading.

What in the world did you think the thread was about?

[daveakl]

What in the world did you think the thread was about?

 

Let's just say we drafted some studs. 

[Warhead36]

QBs: B

Cousins is solid and McCoy is one of the better backups in the league.

 

RB: C+

I like Jones more then most which explains the + but he's still unproven. Thompson is a nice 3rd down back but injury prone and inconsistent. Hope we bring Thomas back.

 

WR: A-

Garcon, Jackson, Doctson, and Crowder is one of the best corps in the league. I put a - because there is no legit superstar WR in that group.

 

TE: A

Reed is a monster, Davis is still a lethal #2, and Paul and Paulsen give us solid proven depth.

 

OL: B

Williams is a stud and Scherff and Moses appear to be on the way up, but our C and LG situation have me worried. Depth shoul be good though.

 

DL: C-

Really a mediocre group beyond Baker, although I like Aonidas(however you spell his name)as a prospect.

 

OLB: A-

Kerrigan, Gallette, and Smith could be a monster group. If Smith lives up to what I think his potential is and Kerrigan returns to his healthy form this could be an A+ group.

 

MLB: C

Riley, Compton, Foster. Its an average group. Not a lot of depth though and no real young up and comers.

 

DB: B+

This one is tough because the CBs are probably an A but the Safeties are like in the C to C+ range. I give a + because of the Norman effect and I'm high on Cravens.

 

K/P: A-

Lumped these two together. Hopkins has a cannon leg and is pretty good on FGs. If Way can stop outkicking coverage and learn to pin teams inside the 10 this could be an A+ tandem.

 

ST Coverage: B+

We were real solid in this area last year and should be solid again this year.

 

Returns: C

Our punt returns suck ass. Only reason this is not a D or even F is because we managed a couple KR TDs.

[skinny21]

DL: C-

Really a mediocre group beyond Baker, although I like Aonidas(however you spell his name)as a prospect.

I'm torn on this one. Personally, if C=average, I think Baker and Ioannidis lift this group (of C- guys) to a C. I've got a bit more faith in Paea and RJF, so I'm going C+

OLB: A-

Kerrigan, Gallette, and Smith could be a monster group. If Smith lives up to what I think his potential is and Kerrigan returns to his healthy form this could be an A+ group.

I like Bates as well...

MLB: C

Riley, Compton, Foster. Its an average group. Not a lot of depth though and no real young up and comers.

If you're going to leave off Spaight and Daniels, then yeah... not a lot of youth/depth.

DB: B+

This one is tough because the CBs are probably an A but the Safeties are like in the C to C+ range. I give a + because of the Norman effect and I'm high on Cravens.

I'm very interested to see how Hall, Ihenacho and Cravens come together on the field (assuming they do).

[braindx]

For me grading units, 

 

F = bottom 6 in the league

D = bottom 12 in the league

C = average in the league

B = top 12 in the league

A = top 6 in the league

 

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Offense

 

QB: B+ (solidly top 10, but not yet top 6)

 

The Cousins "hasn't beat a winning team" is a bit misleading, but he has really only produced for about 10 games at top 10 QB level (one could argue borderline top 6 QB level based on stats). Additionally, we haven't really helped him in terms of run game like some of the other better QBs in the league, so his efficiency is definitely better than normal for how much he threw in our last 10 games. Cousins has the ability to make the jump from B+ to A- or A, but that depends on him continuing to develop. McCoy is one of the better backups in the league. 

 

RB: D (around rank 22-24 in the league)

 

Our run game is mediocre at best with flashes from all of the backs (Jones, Thompson, Marshall, and draftees) that could make us average to above average. They look above average or mediocre one game, but another game they disappear completely leaving Cousins to have to carry the game. There is more disappearing than looking above average, so I have to rate them below average. Let's see some consistent production first with no injuries. It was basically Cousins carrying the offense aside from the first two games last year. I wouldn't be surprised if that Bowling Green RB we picked up as UDFA made the roster and Marshall was set to PS.

 

OL: B- (top 12ish unit, but not top 10)

 

Trent is an A, Scherff is an B/B+ who got better over the course of the year, Moses is a B-/B, and C/LG are questionable at best in the D range (rank 20-26). Lauvao was looking to solidly be B+/A- run blocker and B pass blocker before he got injured a couple games, and I think they wanted Long at center before they had to push him over to LG once Lauvao got injured. If this unit comes together with Callahan coaching in the 2nd year with the people mentioned I think we could be seeing a B+/A- unit over the course of the year. It will probably stay a B if Licht or LeRib have to start.

 

TE: B+ (solidly top 10, but not top 6)

 

Reed is easily a top 5 pass catching tight end, but unfortunately his blocking game leaves a lot to be desired. He probably had at least 8 penalties -- about one every other game -- last year for holding when we ran the ball with him out there. Our depth with Paul, Paulsen, Davis, Carrier, Jensen is pretty solid. We'll probably only carry 3-4 TE to the final roster, so I think Paulsen is probably going to be one of the odd man outs here with potentially one of Paul/Davis/Carrier getting cut as well if they want to go new blood.

 

WR: B (around top 10)

 

DeSean is a top 10 receiver when healthy, but he also disappears in games sometimes. Garcon is a solid possession receiver. Crowder has shown flashes, so hopefully he can make the leap this year. Doctson will probably start to challenge for a starting spot mid-year. If those 4 are uninjured and Doctson develops we could be looking to go from a top 10 ( WR crew to a top 5 (A-). Grant is a solid route runner, but when he's in we can never seem to get him the ball and has seemingly has inconsistent hands. We'll probably keep Ross or a new UDFA WR. Roberts will be cut at June 1. 

 

Overall: B (around top 10)

 

B+, D, B-, B+, B average out to about B- (81.6 numerically if B- is 82 and B+ is 88), but since QB is the most important position and can overcome some of the deficiencies of RBs (see: Rodgers, Aaron), I will give it the benefit of the doubt for a top 10 offense for a solid B.

 

--------------------------------------

 

Defense

 

DL: D (around rank 22-25 in the league)

 

Our DL is below average in the NFL. After Aaron Rodgers gashed us with the hurry up in the playoffs, McLovin, Gruden, and Barry probably realized we need 3 down NTs who can stay on the field at all times and provide solid run support and occasion pocket collapsing. This is why we didn't draft Billings and let Knighton walk. Baker and Ioannidis project as 3 down NTs, and Golston, Paea, Hood, Francois, and the now bulked up Murphy will play 5 tech. I wouldn't be surprised if they used Preston Smith more on the line as well if Galette is healthy to get more good football players on the field.

 

OLB: B+ (solidly top 10, but not top 6)

 

Kerrigan is top 10, Galette has potential to be top 10 or even top 5, and Smith came on pretty strong by the end of the year. Murphy is moving to DE. If we can get Galette on the field, the unit as a whole has the potential to be A-. Unfortunately, Kerrigan hasn't shown the ability to take over games, so I'm not expecting him or the unit to make that jump unless Galette beasts out.

 

ILB: C- (around rank 16-20 in the league)

 

My C rank depends on how they use Cravens as the $LB or Nickel LB because he is solid at rushing the passer, in run support, and can cover TEs. If we were looking at this unit prior to the draft, I think it is a D given how many times we were gashed for 7-10 yards in the run game (=bad ILBs in 3-4) and gashed by tight ends getting big chunks of yardage (bad LBs in coverage). They may also ask Fuller at CB to play the TEs if he can come back healthy from the knee injury which will help the LB crew. Compton and Foster are mediocre, so let's hope Daniels and Spaight can supplant them.

 

CB: A+ (Top 1-3 CB unit)

 

Granted, some of you are ranking all DBs together, but we have a top 3 CB tandem in the league. Norman is easily top 3 (for 1.6 years), and Breeland is a top 10 corner. Who else in the league has 2 CBs both in the top 10? No one. If Fuller plays to his potential as a likely 1st rounder prior to getting injured that's icing on the cake. Throw in Dunbar who was surprisingly effective, and Toler and other depth and we definitely have a top 3 if not the best CB unit in the NFL. Although Norman got somewhat abused by Beckham, Breeland has shown the ability to play Odell very well. Dez can get shut down by both of them.

 

S: D+ (around rank 20-24 in the league)

 

Now that we have a solid CB core, Blackmon will probably be permanently moved to S. Hall is mediocre but getting a bit better. Jarrett was solid until he got injured. We get Ihenacho back from injury. I'm still not enamored about this group, and think they are solidly below average for the NFL, but since we're playing some converted CBs they do have the potential to get better. Cravens will factor into how well the S unit is as he will probably be covering some TEs which will leave them a bit more free to help CBs, although the CBs shouldn't need much help.

 

Overall: C+ (top 15 but not top 12)

 

D, B+, C-, A+, D+ averages out to about C+ at 78.2 rating. Honestly, I think this is a bit high because our DBs are pulling up the average, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt since supposedly we run nickle about 60-75% of the time. The more CBs out on the field at a time -- which is where our strengths lie -- the better we will be. This is about what I expect of them given our weaknesses on the DL, ILB, and S positions. Our CBs and OLBs will really have to carry these teams. If they can force turnovers and get coverage sacks, they definitely have the ability to enter top 10.

 

--------------------------------------

 

Overall team grade: B- (Around rank 12 to 10 in the league)

 

Offense is a B, and Defense is a C+. This averages out to about a B-, which is about what I expected. We overperformed last year, but we had a solid draft and improved. We have the ability to be top 12 which is basically fighting for a divisional playoff spot like last year. Teams in our division like the Cowboys get back romoSUCKS and Dez with a good OL and good RB stable (although injury concerns), but their defense is questionable.The Giants look improved on WR getting Cruz back and getting decent drafted receivers and potentially have a decent defense with the FAs. The Eagles look like a dumpster fire. The division will probably come down to 2 of the 3 -- Redskins, Cowboys, Giants -- fighting it out for the division title with one or perhaps two teams regressing because of injuries and/or potential not being realized.

 

Projected record: 9-7 to 10-6. Win division. Lose wild card round again. If Cousins can take the next step, win wild card and then all bets are off.

 

Floor: D (bottom 12 team in the league) -- if Cousins and/or multiple players like Reed, Jackson, Kerrigan, Norman, Breeland, and the like get injured we're probably 5-10 to 6-10. 3rd in division.

 

Ceiling: A- (top 6 team in the league) -- if Cousins and our WRs ball out and RBs can get their act together we can have a top 6 offense along with good CB, OLB, and another unit or two stepping up, we can have a top 10 defense. 12-4 is probably the best we could do, which is likely top 6 team. Lose in NFC championship game is probably ceiling with all of the good NFC teams now.

[Burgold]

Nice write-up, Braindx. Pretty blunt. I think you are underscoring wide receiver a bit. We have a really good mix there of players who have produced and added a potential starter with size and glue like hands. I really like a crew of Jackson, Garson, Crowder, Doctson, and Ross (I think this is who we enter the season with though I wouldn't be surprised if one of the UDFAs push Ross out. Just think his speed is useful).

 

The tough grades I think are fair. Running back and safety worry me. I think Foster and Compton are a C vs. a D though. My hope is that Spait and Cravens emerge. If that happens, I can see the group jumping up into at least the C+ range. 

[Guardshock]

You gotta think more moves are on the way.......I see no use for Murphy now that we drafted Ioannidis.....maybe trade him for a NT or RB

 

They have already said that they want Ioannidis to gain 15 lbs to be work in the middle. Murphy is light for a lineman and will probably rotate at the edge and in 4 man fronts.

[skinny21]

Braindx- nice write up.

Sure, we could nitpick here or there, but I think overall it's a very fair outlook. Maybe the best compliment I can give is that your post made me say "who is this guy and why haven't I seen him post more?".

Interestingly, checked your join date and you joined 6 days after me... 10 years ago! Weird.

[Airyx]

You can't run a 3-4 defense w/out a NT....I don't care if they're in a base only 30% of the time....that's still a lot of plays...the notion that Golston is the guy, as Gruden suggested is laughable.

 

A traditional 3-4 has a heavy strong squatty guy right in the middle that can't be moved, even with double teams.

 

However, the best 3-4 in football, year in and year out, does not have a NT...Steelers.

 

The 'skins are looking to emulate the Steelers front with everybody immediately hitting a gap.

[braindx]

Nice write-up, Braindx. Pretty blunt. I think you are underscoring wide receiver a bit. We have a really good mix there of players who have produced and added a potential starter with size and glue like hands. I really like a crew of Jackson, Garson, Crowder, Doctson, and Ross (I think this is who we enter the season with though I wouldn't be surprised if one of the UDFAs push Ross out. Just think his speed is useful).

 

The tough grades I think are fair. Running back and safety worry me. I think Foster and Compton are a C vs. a D though. My hope is that Spait and Cravens emerge. If that happens, I can see the group jumping up into at least the C+ range. 

 

I was also somewhat factoring in injuries, but I just reread my post and didn't mention it. Unfortunately, Jackson always seems to miss 4-8 games a year with a hamstring or other, but when he's in there our offense does take a qualitative leap as you could see last year. If he can stay healthy, I think they have the ability to improve like you said. Big if... much like our RB durability.

 

I think it's likely that Ross gets pushed out this year given there's 3 other decent WRs competing for the last spot or two. That being said, he does seem like the only other 'speed' option that we potentially have aside from Jackson... so they might keep him just based on that. One of the guys on Hogshaven did a write up on the UDFAs.

 

http://www.hogshaven.com/2016/5/2/11549646/washington-redskins-2016-udfas-who-can-make-the-team

 

Foster and Compton were gashed by TEs and RBs a lot last year which is why I gave them a D (around 22-24 rank) prior to this year. Qualitatively, on defense we were 17th in points allowed (mainly cause we got timely turnovers), 28th in yards, 26th in pass, and 25th in rush, so I think I'm pretty fair on that assessment.

 

On the other hand, they did improve over the course of the season. I'm also basing my assumption on all of the 7-10 yard runs and getting crushed by TEs in the middle on the ILBs. If those were NOT their responsibilities it may be the case where they were C level last year, but that means our DL and S last were probably in the F to D- range. Hot garbage. 

 

Either way, we were a below average unit that over-performed on defense last year. Injuries definitely played a big factor but next man up.

 

Braindx- nice write up.

Sure, we could nitpick here or there, but I think overall it's a very fair outlook. Maybe the best compliment I can give is that your post made me say "who is this guy and why haven't I seen him post more?".

Interestingly, checked your join date and you joined 6 days after me... 10 years ago! Weird.

 

Thanks. I think you could make some quibbles here and there based on responsibilities since we don't know those as fans. Like I said to Burgold, our ILBs could have been about average instead of below average if more of the blame was supposed to be on the DL and/or S positions last year.

 

I think our Gaussian average is about B- (top 12-10 +/- 2 ranks team) given we over-performed + harder schedule but also improved in the draft and we are getting into 2nd year for Joe Barry + Callahan OL. Will be interesting to see who improves and who regresses this year, and if we can take the next step.

 

Yeah, I rarely post anymore. But this thread piqued my interest!