visionary Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 minute ago, visionary said: See. Concealed carry (Old West style teachers) not gunsafes, smart guns, etc. Cheap solutions that boil down to armed teachers roaming the halls and classrooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 So what's stopping a shooter to put down his gun too and walks out? The Florida shooter walked out with the kids. Fail of teacher solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: So what's stopping a shooter to put down his gun too and walks out? The Florida shooter walked out with the kids. Fail of teacher solution. It's the ongoing fallacy of the "The only thing that stops a good guy with a gun is a bad guy with a gun." Even though in hundreds of examples of mass shootings in America, we've not once seen it play out that way (with the disclaimer being that good guy means civilian good guy and not law enforcement or military when people make the above quote.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 41 minutes ago, Burgold said: Frankly, I think the left didn't because they were cowards and intimidated by the NRA and gun vote. That's not a good reason. I think back in 2010, the mass shooting was already bad enough that we needed to do something, but it wasn't quite as bad as it is today. By the time Sandyhook (2012) the Republicans were firmly entrenched and in charge of Congress. They weren't going to pass a bill no matter how tragic events became. Still, the wimpiness of the Democrats means that there is blood on their hands too. They could've done more, at least with legislation that would've passed the House, but they only really had power for a short period of time. Al Franken's seat was contested which took a while to sort out and Ted Kennedy died in 2009 with Scott Brown taking his seat ending the 60 for the Dems. To be real the Democrats only had the WH, House and 60 in the Senate for a period of some months. They used it pass the ACA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Mooka said: They could've done more, at least with legislation that would've passed the House, but they only really had power for a short period of time. Al Franken's seat was contested which took a while to sort out and Ted Kennedy died in 2009 with Scott Brown taking his seat ending the 60 for the Dems. To be real the Democrats only had the WH, House and 60 in the Senate for a period of some months. They used it pass the ACA. I think that's right. I do think Republicans trying to pin the blame on the Democrats or saying that there's equal blame after not just eight years of obstruction but twenty years of "Hell no!" rings hollow, but that doesn't mean the Democrats hands are entirely clean. Then again, the D's have tried and failed to push control legislation many, many times. Edited February 18, 2018 by Burgold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 7 hours ago, Burgold said: Frankly, I think the left didn't because they were cowards and intimidated by the NRA and gun vote. That's not a good reason. I think back in 2010, the mass shooting was already bad enough that we needed to do something, but it wasn't quite as bad as it is today. By the time Sandyhook (2012) the Republicans were firmly entrenched and in charge of Congress. They weren't going to pass a bill no matter how tragic events became. Still, the wimpiness of the Democrats means that there is blood on their hands too. I couldn't imagine arming you or ASF, and I don't mean that as a insult. I most certainly know some educators I would. 4 hours ago, Burgold said: It's the ongoing fallacy of the "The only thing that stops a good guy with a gun is a bad guy with a gun." Even though in hundreds of examples of mass shootings in America, we've not once seen it play out that way (with the disclaimer being that good guy means civilian good guy and not law enforcement or military when people make the above quote.) You are uninformed, though if you use the criteria of mass shooting it kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Burgold said: See. Concealed carry (Old West style teachers) not gunsafes, smart guns, etc. Cheap solutions that boil down to armed teachers roaming the halls and classrooms. they sell a biometric smartlock that you can remove in seconds, why do you fear educators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 6 hours ago, twa said: they sell a biometric smartlock that you can remove in seconds, why do you fear educators? What do you think will happen? Oh, I know it's because an armed, untrained or barely trained civilian, will act like Clint Eastwood and mow down the bad guys with perfect precision because history shows so many examples of this very thing happening. In fact, teachers are more likely to perform like the Lone Ranger and as soon as a shooter sidles up to the school they will quick draw, shoot the offending gun out of the baddies hand, twirl their own revolver holster it, and return to the black board. Heck, they may even start using silver bullets instead of chalk to write up their daily lesson plans. Besides, this isn't a new idea. This is more of the same. For twenty plus years, the NRAs sollution to mass shooting has been more guns, less regulation, and less mental health oversight. Giving teachers guns is just the same old spin. How has increasing the number of guns and access to them helped stop mass shootings so far? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, Burgold said: What do you think will happen? Oh, I know it's because an armed, untrained or barely trained civilian, I was with ya till then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 14 hours ago, Burgold said: See. Concealed carry (Old West style teachers) not gunsafes, smart guns, etc. Cheap solutions that boil down to armed teachers roaming the halls and classrooms. I was discussing this with a friend who is shall we say a prepper, he frequently takes armed and disarmed combat classes and routinely conceal carries. One thing he said that struck me more than any other is the number of times he’s seen trained people do a “shirt pull”. Which is reaching for their concealed weapon only to grab it wiithout pulling their shirt off it first. Every time they die in the scenarios. And this is in a training environment, with ZERO adrenaline, and zero chaos. But yeah, lets add MORE requirements onto teachers who we’re already under paying and stress school systems who are already having their budgets cut. This fantasy is absurd. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 School budgets are slashed to the bone, teachers pay for supplies out of their own pockets, many school systems don't have enough in the budget to heat the buildings properly. but yeah, we can afford to buy guns, holsters, storage lockers, pay for training and continual qualifying... probably could come up with the budget for it pretty fast, i am sure. No money to educate kids, and no desire to protect them. Just funnel more money to the gun industry and call it a day. (Oh, forgot,, hope and pray for the next shooting, so we can sell even more guns.) it really takes a special kind of idiot to believe any of this garbage. ~Bang 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 What are ya'll doing with your taxes if your schools are in such dire straits? Accidental discharges are certainly a concern,but far less of a one when someone is walking around shooting people. ASF, ask your buddy for some proof they die everytime or even often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 28 minutes ago, Bang said: School budgets are slashed to the bone, teachers pay for supplies out of their own pockets, many school systems don't have enough in the budget to heat the buildings properly. but yeah, we can afford to buy guns, holsters, storage lockers, pay for training and continual qualifying... probably could come up with the budget for it pretty fast, i am sure. No money to educate kids, and no desire to protect them. Just funnel more money to the gun industry and call it a day. (Oh, forgot,, hope and pray for the next shooting, so we can sell even more guns.) it really takes a special kind of idiot to believe any of this garbage. ~Bang I'm stunned, but not even one iota shocked, at how quickly they are moving to exploit this atrocity in order to SELL MORE GUNS! Teachers need 'em, janitors need 'em, hell, let's arm all the students! That alone ought to demonstrate beyond any possible shadow of doubt exactly what their motivations are. No gun ban or legislative figleaf can even begin to address this and all the other issues we face, the whole rotten mess needs to be booted TF out. Unless and until human beings w/ souls seize control of government we will see this **** continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 21 minutes ago, twa said: What are ya'll doing with your taxes if your schools are in such dire straits? Ask your ideological cohort Matt Bevin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, twa said: Accidental discharges are certainly a concern,but far less of a one when someone is walking around shooting people. ASF, ask your buddy for some proof they die everytime or even often. Did I say accidental dischage? I don’t believe I wrote those words. I said “shirt pull” where they grab the shirt as they grab the gun creating a non-draw. The delay causes them to die. Oh and while we’re on the subject of arming teachers...this happened on the same day as the Oarkland shooting. http://amarillo.com/local-news/news/crime-and-courts/2018-02-14/apd-shoots-faith-city-mission-student-who-d-taken-gun APD shoots Faith City Mission student who’d taken gun away from hostage-taker in facility’s chapel The Amarillo Police Department is investigating the circumstances surrounding an officer-involved shooting Wednesday morning in which a Faith City Mission student was wounded while in possession of a gun he wrestled away from a suspect. Police said the initial call just before 9 a.m. referenced an armed suspect holding approximately 100 people hostage in the mission’s chapel. APD Special Crimes Unit investigators believe responding officers entered at two entrances to the building at 401 S.E. Second Ave. and, according to an APD news release, came into contact with the Faith City Mission student with a gun in his hand. One or more officers fired shots at the student, who had wrestled the gun away from the hostage-taker. The student was hit and taken to a local hospital by ambulance. Edited February 19, 2018 by AsburySkinsFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Like I said, the guy WITH a gun in an active shooter environment is considered a hostile by LEOs. Since this was in Texas, I wonder if @twa knew about it but just decided to keep it quiet as he pushed his “more guns makes us safer” mythology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Did I say accidental dischage? I don’t believe I wrote those words. I said “shirt pull” where they grab the shirt as they grab the gun creating a non-draw. The delay causes them to die. Oh and while we’re on the subject of arming teachers...this happened on the same day as the Oarkland shooting. You are worried about quick draws?....seriously??? Your point on the APD shooting is the kid shouldn't have disarmed the gunman or what? Taking action comes with risks, just as inaction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 LoL!!! You know it really is entertaining watching you completely ignore EVERYTHING. Cops shoot kid who saved the day...twa blames the kid and soldiers on as if this is all normal. Honestly, if THIS is the best arguments you have then this is pointless, because you’ve already lost but you just pretend the score doesn’t matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Like I said, the guy WITH a gun in an active shooter environment is considered a hostile by LEOs. Since this was in Texas, I wonder if @twa knew about it but just decided to keep it quiet as he pushed his “more guns makes us safer” mythology Since it was in Texas over 600 miles from me you might be closer to me. I hear about cops shooting people all the time and have already said several times in this thread it is a risk to have a gun....one sensible rules greatly lessens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Bang said: it really takes a special kind of idiot to believe any of this garbage. ~Bang Teacher at HR Block: “So can I deduct the cost of my sidearm as a business expense?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: LoL!!! You know it really is entertaining watching you completely ignore EVERYTHING. Cops shoot kid who saved the day...twa blames the kid and soldiers on as if this is all normal. Honestly, if THIS is the best arguments you have then this is pointless, because you’ve already lost but you just pretend the score doesn’t matter. I see you ignored the question of whether the kid should have disarmed the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, twa said: Since it was in Texas over 600 miles from me you might be closer to me. I hear about cops shooting people all the time and have already said several times in this thread it is a risk to have a gun....one sensible rules greatly lessens. All you’re doing is INCREASING the risks. BTW, I’ll just take a moment to point out that you didn’t say you didn’t know about the cop shooting the kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 minute ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Teacher at HR Block: “So can I deduct the cost of my sidearm as a business expense?” Yes if it is reserved for primarily at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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