WP: It’s not just about RGIII, and Redskins’ Scot McCloughan has proven it

[Skinsinparadise]

Dammit, this column is exactly the type of thing that makes me optimistic about this franchise every August only to be deeply hurt by mid-October.

 

I think though part of the point of the article is that if we feel hurt by mid-October we are losing the forest for the trees.  Scot isn't here for the quick fix.   If he hits lightening in the bottle great but if not and we stack one good draft after another, we should get to the promised land.

 

Trying to think of the last killer draft here -- never mind having consecutive good drafts.  Even the ballyhooed 2011 draft, where Shanny kept trading down and we ended up with 12 picks wasn't that hot.  We end up with one marquee player and a backup TE.    

 

One mediocre to bad draft after another clearly takes a toll.    GB, Baltimore, etc seem to kill it almost every draft.    If that becomes the Redskins, too -- we should become a winner again.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

When the organization doesn't develop its players, the drafts are going to look bad. Give us those same rookie classes as Green Bay or Baltimore had every year and we'd have ruined them.

[SkinsHokieFan]

When the organization doesn't develop its players, the drafts are going to look bad. Give us those same rookie classes as Green Bay or Baltimore had every year and we'd have ruined them.

 

And that just comes from very poor prioritization by the org.

 

Dan has got to stop being cheap with the football operation. 

[TSO]

Will be real interesting to see how many who presently show so much understanding (and therefore profess their willingness to be patient) about the concept of building from the ground up and being patient while a franchise implements a new (and wise) philosophy, continue in that understanding and professed patience when the bullets start to fly.

Btw, this article was awesome and we should give it as many clicks as possible. Need to encourage the new guy to keep at it, lol.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Will be real interesting to see how many who presently show so much understanding (and therefore profess their willingness to be patient) about the concept of building from the ground up and being patient while a franchise implements a new (and wise) philosophy, continue in that understanding and professed patience when the bullets start to fly.

Btw, this article was awesome and we should give it as many clicks as possible. Need to encourage the new guy to keep at it, lol.

 

I would feel much better had I heard we hired a bunch of new scouts, made plans to build a new facility, hired some analytics guys or were going to the virtual reality product the Cowboys and Patriots will use this year.

 

Dan needs to give Scot every $$$$ edge across the football operation 

[Leonard Washington]

I also add that we need to show some commitment to Gruden* as well.  A new coach every 2-3 years doesn't help with culture or player development.

 

*I'm not saying we have the right staff but I would like to see some stability (for better or worse).

[SkinsHokieFan]

I also add that we need to show some commitment to Gruden* as well.  A new coach every 2-3 years doesn't help with culture or player development.

 

*I'm not saying we have the right staff but I would like to see some stability (for better or worse).

 

I like stability, but not "for the sake of stability.

 

If Gruden sucks, get him the hell out of here as quick as possible before he sabotages GMSM

[Skinsinparadise]

When the organization doesn't develop its players, the drafts are going to look bad. Give us those same rookie classes as Green Bay or Baltimore had every year and we'd have ruined them.

 

I am not so sure I'd put it on development.  It would be one thing if we had one coaching staff under Danny but we had a whole bunch of different guys and some with pretty good reputations.   We've had bad drafts as far back as the Casserly years.  Gregg Williams is doing pretty good with the Rams young defensive players.  He's regarded as a pretty good defensive coach.  I'd gather he knows how to coach them up.    As for the players they drafted on defense during that era -- it was again at best mediocre.  Sean Taylor was a great pick.  But arguably that was it under the 4 years under Gregg.   Heck even the modest successful defensive picks in that era were relatively disappointments such as trading two picks to trade up for Rocky McIntosh, using a top ten pick for Landry and Rogers.  They drafted 5 different LB's during that era who were all busts.    

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2010: New QB, New HC, New OC, New DC

2011: New QB

2012: New QB

2013: Familiar Disfunction

2014: New HC, new GM

2015: New GM, New DC

2016: New QB

2017: New Coach

 

and so it goes...

[Burgold]

2015: New GM

2016: New QB

2017: New Coach

 

and so it goes...

I strongly suspect if we see a new QB in 2016 we also should see a new HC. In my opinion, that's how it should be. If RGIII fails, then Gruden and the Redskins will have failed. I hope Gruden sees it that way too.

 

Only caveat is if RGIII fails and after inserting Cousins or McCoy, the wins suddenly mount, but we haven't seen that yet. If they can show it is only RGIII as Shanny and Kyle attempted to do when they scapegoated him after Kansas City then all right. If Gruden fails two years in a row badly, then McCloughan will assess whether he's the right man for the job. After all, Jay hand picked his defensive coordinator and staff and got who he wanted. Additionally, McCloughan gave him everything he could in terms of personnel to succeed.

 

Besides, even though McCloughan is preaching patience, does he really want to waste three years if he thinks he has the wrong men and that they haven't shown anything. Gruden needs to prove himself this year. He proved nothing good in his rookie campaign.

[goskins10]

When the organization doesn't develop its players, the drafts are going to look bad. Give us those same rookie classes as Green Bay or Baltimore had every year and we'd have ruined them.

 

 

This is the most accurate statement it can be. It's not that we draft poorly, it's that we don't develop the players we draft. We don't make them better. I wonder how many solid starters GB or Balt would have come out of our drafts over say the last 10 yrs?

 

 

And that just comes from very poor prioritization by the org.

 

Dan has got to stop being cheap with the football operation. 

 

 

Cheap with the organization? Did you not see where we got dinged by $38M for over spending on players? The other owners are pissed at Dan and Jerry for over paying players (although danny has shown a little restraint lately).

 

You can say a lot of pretty damning things about danny and they are true. But not being willing to spend money is the one thing you just can't say.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I am not so sure I'd put it on development.  It would be one thing if we had one coaching staff under Danny but we had a whole bunch of different guys and some with pretty good reputations.   We've had bad drafts as far back as the Casserly years. 

That would be because our owner has no patience and no concept of organizational structure or identity. Hard to develop players when you've got new coaches and new systems every other year and Dan brings in the biggest name free agent on the market if we don't have a guy playing at a pro bowl level right away.

Have we ever had the same offensive identity for more than two years since Dan got here?

 

Norv - Almost 2 years

Martyball - 1

Fun n Gun - 2

Gibbs Power - 2

Saunders 5000 page playbook - 2

Zorn's somethingerother - 1.5

Zorn with somebody else calling the plays - .5

WCO - 2

Read option - 1

Whatever we were in 2013 - 1

Gruden - 2?

[Skinsinparadise]

That would be because our owner has no patience and no concept of organizational structure or identity. Hard to develop players when you've got new coaches and new systems every other year and Dan brings in the biggest name free agent on the market if we don't have a guy playing at a pro bowl level right away.

Have we ever had the same offensive identity for more than two years since Dan got here?

 

 

 

I agree with this point but IMO that is a whole other discussion and its a reason not the prime reason for the bad drafting.  With the exception of John Schneider under Marty for one year -- we've had GMs who weren't considered hot commodities but mediocre at personnel, before they even got here. 

 

For example, I don't think it was just development issues as to why Devin Thomas and M. Kelly were busts unlike Desean Jackson who we could have taken or Jordy Nelson in that same round in that same draft.   M. Kelly's injury issues were well established.  D. Thomas was a one year wonder in college.  D. Thomas was given another chance to succeed with the NY Giants.    And it didn't work out for him.

 

And the drafting part IMO was just half the problem, the other half was the trading picks away like candy with almost every one of those trades ending poorly.  I can't put that on the coaches, either.  

 

But again I agree with your point, it certainly helps to have team stability by keeping your coaching staff around.  But do I think we'd have been successful if for example we stuck with Vinny and Spurrier for longer?  No.   Heck even Shanny was eventually run out of town in Denver because of his drafts, ditto for Allen in Tampa.  Do I think if we gave Allen and Shanny longer to run this ship -- we'd be in better shape?  No.  But that's obviously something we will never know one way or another, its just my opinion.   

 

Edit:  Drafting the right players for the right scheme is clearly as asset.  But looking at the team's track record at drafting, the Redskins problem seems much more fundamental than that.  With rare exceptions, its not like these young players are ending up at other teams where they are supposedly a better fit and thriving.

[SkinsHokieFan]

 

 

 

 

 

Cheap with the organization? Did you not see where we got dinged by $38M for over spending on players? The other owners are pissed at Dan and Jerry for over paying players (although danny has shown a little restraint lately).

 

You can say a lot of pretty damning things about danny and they are true. But not being willing to spend money is the one thing you just can't say.

 

 

Yes you can.

 

Dan spends big dollars (in theory) on FA players.

 

He spends very little on the quality of Redskins park

 

Very little on scouting

 

Very little on the infrastructure to the org. Analytics, S&C, medical staff, food, etc.

 

It is a cheaply run operation. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Yes you can.

 

 

He spends very little on the quality of Redskins park

 

Very little on scouting

 

Very little on the infrastructure to the org. Analytics, S&C, medical staff, food, etc.

 

It is a cheaply run operation. 

 

I agree with this point.  By spending resources, Danny is willing to go to town on players and coaches, its time he do the same on scouting.   I think he would though at this point, months ago Scot was trying to acquire for example Highsmith from GB, I presume he had Danny's approval. 

[SkinsHokieFan]

I agree with this point.  By spending resources, Danny is willing to go to town on players and coaches, its time he do the same on scouting. 

 

Scouting, facilities, the weight room (most of D-1 has better facilities then the Redskins do), certainly the training and medical staff. 

[Warhead36]

The reality is, its going to take 2-3 years worth of draft and FA classes before McC can really put his imprint on this team.

 

I'm thinking this year will be another struggle year(5-11/6-10 ish). Next year we finish around 8-8. 2017 we become a fringe playoff team(maybe make it depending on the strength of the rest of the division).

 

McC is building this the right way which means it'll take time. The truth is this franchise has never really committed to a true rebuild.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

I was upset about the Scherff pick but I trust Scot and he's forgot more football than I'll ever know.

 

The Scherff pick is the only thing I feel sure we got right.

 

Everybody always gets excited about how picks and acquisitions will improve our team, but the real issue is whether the Redskins improved relative to every other team (other teams improved with picks too).  Not only do you have to improve your team, you have to outmaneuver most of the other teams in the league to become a contender.

 

So based on that, I'm hoping McC will be able to build according to his vision faster than other teams, who are likely also seeing the prototypes of the way the Seahawks and 9ers were put together.

 

I'm also hoping the Redskins have been the fastest out of the gate in building a dominant OL--which is why I like the Scherff pick--it means we basically beat the whole league in the 2015 draft, provided this is the trend teams will copy after seeing how the Cowboys turned things around. (OL will become increasingly rare, sought-after, and valuable.)

 

So I'm basically hoping McC is successful in building the Redskins his way (and that it turns out to be a winning strategy of course), before the rest of the league catches on, or before it becomes a league-wide trend. 

[zoony]

Article that says skins are finally on the right track? Must be July.

Article saying that the Skins suck, RGIII is a narcissist, and Dan Snyder is an asshole? October.

Everyone demanding change and turning in their fan cards? December

[TSO]

I would feel much better had I heard we hired a bunch of new scouts, made plans to build a new facility, hired some analytics guys or were going to the virtual reality product the Cowboys and Patriots will use this year.

Dan needs to give Scot every $$$$ edge across the football operation

Don't blame you for that, I was in the same boat but the fact that Scot seemed to be happy with what we had and didn't really make too many changes says that maybe we were okay there.

I know he tried to get that Packer evaluator (as SIP already mentioned), forgot his name, but was blocked by the Packers. So I don't think Dan is stopping him from getting what he wants for the scouting department.

They are building more offices at Redskins Park that's pretty much for the FO/scouting department and from the looks of it they're pretty nice.

So right now I'm not as down about it.

[SkinsHokieFan]

ntioned), forgot his name, but was blocked by the Packers. So I don't think Dan is stopping him from getting what he wants for the scouting department.

They are building more offices at Redskins Park that's pretty much for the FO/scouting department and from the looks of it they're pretty nice.

So right now I'm not as down about it.

 

I heard about the offices, but its still the usual half ass measure like a bubble is in front of the place

 

Virginia freakin Tech just opened up a state of the art indoor practice facility this week.

 

I don't understand with all the resources the team has the most D-1 schools have better weight rooms, S&C and infrastructure then the Washington Redskins do.

 

A few offices are nice, but when scouting contracts were up in early May I really would have liked to have seen the team go out and grab a few of the best ones from the Pats/Steelers/Ravens/Seahawks and bring them on in. I am hoping that Scot simply will do that in year 2

[goskins10]

Yes you can.

 

Dan spends big dollars (in theory) on FA players.

 

He spends very little on the quality of Redskins park

 

Very little on scouting

 

Very little on the infrastructure to the org. Analytics, S&C, medical staff, food, etc.

 

It is a cheaply run operation. 

 

I am not trying to be ugly but do you have data you can provide? I tried to look for the actual numbers. All I could find was the people and positions. As compared to other NFL teams, it all looks pretty much the same. I also heard from several outgoing HCs including Joe Gibbs that Dan provides you with everything you need in terms of infrastructure.

 

The field was a mess but they put in a completely new kind of sod last year. Notice how it held up better? But no one wants to talk about that. Also, FedEx has had at least some kind of renovation done every year. You may not like what he did, but it's not like he is not spending money on it. Also, what are you comparing it to? Food? really? You have those numbers? Analytics? Medical Staff (I believe we had the #1 knee reconstruction surgeon in the world on payroll). Again, do you have proof of all this?

 

Do you have access to data showing that as compared to rest of the league the Redskins are at the bottom of the league?

 

See I am pretty sure you can't. I believe these are all just rumors because people hate danny. Having said that, I will be glad to change my position if you can provide the data.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of things to hate danny for like keeping vinnie I am an idiot cerrato for too long. But one thing that's never been an issue is his willingness to spend whatever money is needed for the team, any part of the team. During Joe Gibbs 4 yrs, we had the largest staff in football. Again, if you have data to support your position I would be very, very interested in seeing it.

[Riggo'sRangers]

I am just waiting for Dan to give Scot the resources to build a scouting empire.

 

Dan still hasn't poured nearly enough resources into scouting, player development, strength and conditioning, the medical staff, the facilities and weight room.

 

All of that could be done for 1/10th of Haynesworth's contract

http://www.csnwashington.com/redskinsblog/new-strength-coach-institutes-changes-redskins-park

[Riggo'sRangers]

Dan spends big dollars (in theory) on FA players.

He spends very little on the quality of Redskins park

Very little on scouting

Very little on the infrastructure to the org. Analytics, S&C, medical staff, food, etc.

It is a cheaply run operation. 

How do we know this?  Seriously, what are the capital expenditures in these areas vs other teams?  Is this a guess or is there numerical data to substantiate this claim?  

[TSO]

I heard about the offices, but its still the usual half ass measure like a bubble is in front of the place

Virginia freakin Tech just opened up a state of the art indoor practice facility this week.

I don't understand with all the resources the team has the most D-1 schools have better weight rooms, S&C and infrastructure then the Washington Redskins do.

A few offices are nice, but when scouting contracts were up in early May I really would have liked to have seen the team go out and grab a few of the best ones from the Pats/Steelers/Ravens/Seahawks and bring them on in. I am hoping that Scot simply will do that in year 2

I'm with ya, brother, but this offseason I felt like steps were definitely made in the right direction.

I would love to feel like Dan spends more, or at least the equivalent, of resources proportionate to the profits of the franchise.

So if we're the 3rd most profitable franchise in the league (which we are according to Forbes), than we spend, at the very least, the 3rd most in the league on our facilities, scouting department, etc...

Which would mean they'd be state of the art for the most part and the envy of the league. Unfortunately, they're just not. Yet.

Now, I don't know how far we've come to get to that this offseason, and I doubt it's close really, but I feel like some legitimate progress has been made on that front.