Spearfeather Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, JSSkinz said: You're right, it was a poor generalization. I have lots to say on this issue just not enough ES stamina to get into it. I think and what I hope you were saying was while running from the cops or parking across three parking spaces are both incredibly stupid things to do, you don't believe those are reason enough to be shot by the cops, but you believe minimizing your encounters with the cops would also decrease your chances of being shot by the cops. Edited June 25, 2018 by Spearfeather 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: You should also definitely take control of your own actions and not put yourself in a situation where you can be brutalized by police. (Eg don’t break the law in the first place). Nope/ If you are not a threat to anyone, you should not have violence put upon you by a police officer. Eric Garner was not a threat to anyone yet lost his life because he was selling loosies. That is insane. No, what the expectation should be is police treat situations with the degree of severity. A person should not be brutally attacked for selling loosies, or reaching for their wallet after being pulled over. You are defending their actions and it is insane but again, "That's white justice!" 1 hour ago, Spearfeather said: I think and what I hope you were saying was while running from the cops or parking across three parking spaces are both incredibly stupid things to do, you don't believe those are reason enough to be shot by the cops, but you believe minimizing you're encounters with the cops would also decrease your chances of being shot by the cops. Their rational is wrong. We have rights after being arrested for a reason. Minimizing police contact doesn't change that even those accused have rights. A few of you want that removed too based on this weird line you want to straddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/24/2018 at 7:53 AM, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Don’t run away from the cops and don’t park like an a-hole and take up two handicap spots? Situation avoided. Seems reasonable to me. Also, don't be a minority. Seriously, stop being black. It's an unreasonable choice. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: Also, don't be a minority. Seriously, stop being black. It's an unreasonable choice. I’m pretty sure he was stopped because he was taking up two handicap parking spots, not because he was black. I agree him being black affected the cops handling of the situation... the video makes that clear. I think he could have avoided the entire situation by not being a narcissistic a-hole and take up two handicap parking spots. Edited June 25, 2018 by CousinsCowgirl84 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I dont know if the officers body cam was a fish lens or something ... but it seemed like Sterling Brown got real close to the cop right from the get go. Then the cop tells him to back up several times and Brown doesnt. I feel like if I did that, I would have been body slammed real quick. But Im not 6'6" so a lone officer wouldnt hesitate to get physical with me. I dont think the Sterling Brown incident is even in the same ball park as some of the other crap you see out there, guys just walking home and getting profiled and harassed until the situation escalates to excessive force. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearfeather Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Their rational is wrong. We have rights after being arrested for a reason. Minimizing police contact doesn't change that even those accused have rights. You're right. Encounters can turn into confrontations depending on what happens during those encounters. I don't think anyone is arguing that. One way to avoid a confrontation is to not have an encounter in the first place. Edited June 25, 2018 by Spearfeather 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, Spearfeather said: You're right. Encounters can turn into confrontations depending on what happens during those encounters. I don't think anyone is arguing that. One way to avoid a confrontation is to not have an encounter in the first place. No man, the obvious thing is "don't get in trouble." That's not waht this conversation is about. I am really disgusted that a few of want to move it there and away from police misconduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 6 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Nope/ If you are not a threat to anyone, you should not have violence put upon you by a police officer. Eric Garner was not a threat to anyone yet lost his life because he was selling loosies. That is insane. No, what the expectation should be is police treat situations with the degree of severity. A person should not be brutally attacked for selling loosies, or reaching for their wallet after being pulled over. You are defending their actions and it is insane but again, "That's white justice!" This isn't a commentary on Eric Garner specifically and I agree with the highlighted sentiment in general. The problem is that idea doesn't line up with the reality of police work in practice. Police officers have to arrest people for a variety of reasons and not all of them require a person be an active threat in that moment. If the person resists arrest, some level of violence becomes unavoidable. This doesn't mean that any level of violence is acceptable, nor that police officers are right to use violence simply to speed things along. There's an important discussion to be had about how much violence is acceptable and how much effort they're expected to put into avoiding it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 4 hours ago, Spearfeather said: One way to avoid a confrontation is to not have an encounter in the first place. It's a very good idea to avoid police contact as much as possible. It's no different than avoiding a dangerous part of town or any particularly dangerous situation. How we imagine the world should be does not change how the world is right now. This reminds me of driving advice my father gave me a depressingly long time ago: "the middle of an intersection isn't the place to argue who has the right of way with an 18 wheeler." Prudent advice becomes a very ugly thing however, the moment it crosses over into victim blaming. A person failing to do everything possible to avoid a wrong committed against them, does not make them partially responsible. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I still think this all boils down to the kinds of people we let become officers. I think it should be harder to be a cop, and they should be much much better paid. Add some actual consequences for questionable actions and I think we have a solution. Though this has to come from the top, not come the community. Nothing about any of that would be easy. But I do think it would be worth it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Llevron said: I still think this all boils down to the kinds of people we let become officers. I think it should be harder to be a cop, and they should be much much better paid. Add some actual consequences for questionable actions and I think we have a solution. Though this has to come from the top, not come the community. Nothing about any of that would be easy. But I do think it would be worth it. One problem I have with American Exceptionalism is this notion that adopting too many practices from say Europe will wreck our uniqueness and identity. We need to put our pride aside and just look at what works, regardless of where it's from. Insisting were #1 in everything it's how you end up with stuff like the highest prisoner population ratio in the world walking backwards. In other countries step one it's as to de-escalate, but here it's like priority one is to neutralize the threat. You are right arena Maher touched on it, part of law enforcement is understanding assholes come with the territory. That doesn't mean expect everyone to be an asshole and then kill the ones your "100% sure" are. 8 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: I’m a lady. You disappoint me. You have a suprising lack of empathy for a female. Are you a mom? Do you tell your kids just do what the police tell you to do? You need to read more of this thread if you do. Edited June 25, 2018 by Renegade7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 15 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: You disappoint me. You have a suprising lack of empathy for a female. Are you a mom? Do you tell your kids just do what the police tell you to do? You need to read more of this thread if you do. Yesh .... that is a stereotypical statement and thought. All women should act the same, think the same .. as if all women should coordinate in unison how they should come across. You might counter that "having empathy" is a good trait and thus no harm, no foul. But I disagree. If you can lump an entire gender together for a positive trait, you may very well just as easily do that for negative ones as well. You can see where this is going. Broad brush. My pet peeve when talking about this very complex and personal umbrella of issues. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: You disappoint me. You have a suprising lack of empathy for a female. Are you a mom? Do you tell your kids just do what the police tell you to do? You need to read more of this thread if you do. Im not a mom but I would tell my kids to do exactly what the police tell them to do. If the cops are in the wrong wait till there are more people around than just them and you to deal with the issue. I would also encourage them to put them selves or situations where the cops aren’t getting called out on them. Everyone wants to change the world but no one wants to change themselves. Edited June 25, 2018 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearfeather Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Destino said: A person failing to do everything possible to avoid a wrong committed against them, does not make them partially responsible. I think in some cases there may be a difference between " failing to do everything possible " to avoid an encounter vs. sending out an invitation for an encounter with police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said: Yesh .... that is a stereotypical statement and thought. All women should act the same, think the same ... A lot of women are better at nuture then men, that's normal, it's a compliment. I feel differently about women doing mass shooting then men, like if a mom went into a school their kids went to and started shooting. I'm sorry if you think that's sexist, thats not what it's meant as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Im not a mom but I would tell my kids to do exactly what the police tell them to do. If the cops are in the wrong wait till there are more people around than just them and you to deal with the issue. 119 pages, how many you think were before backup showed up or werenot in on it? 2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: I would also encourage them to put them selves or situations where the cops aren’t getting called out on them. Avoid cops and don't break the law, a lot of people say that, try that. 2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Everyone wants to change the world but no one wants to change themselves. Black incarceration has gone down by more then a fifth since 2000. We kept parts of criminals justice from the 80s when they claim they needed it into 2018. Historically black men have been labeled the boogeyman, country does this more or less with time and where most people were coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Renegade7 said: 119 pages, how many you think were before backup showed up or werenot in on it? Avoid cops and don't break the law, a lot of people say that, try that. Black incarceration has gone down by more then a fifth since 2000. We kept parts of criminals justice from the 80s when they claim they needed it into 2018. Historically black men have been labeled the boogeyman, country does this more or less with time and where most people were coming from. I’m not talking about another cop, I’m talking about lawyers, judges, alcu, etc. I’ve had no problem not breaking the law. It’s not that difficult. Im not sure what you mean with the last sentence in the last paragraph. Or how the last paragraph is related to what i said.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 21 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: I’m not talking about another cop, I’m talking about lawyers, judges, alcu, etc. You don't get in, they are dying before anyone shows up to help and moat times getting away with it. Judges and lawyers, you have any idea how hard it is to even being charges let alone get a convictions. 21 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: I’ve had no problem not breaking the law. It’s not that difficult. You don't get it, this happens to people that don't break the law as well. And it shouldn't happen to people that do, cop is not the judge and and executioner. 21 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Im not sure what you mean with the last sentence in the last paragraph. Or how the last paragraph is related to what i said.... You sounded like black people need to work on the perception people have of them, they have, they aren't listening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Renegade7 said: You don't get in, they are dying before anyone shows up to help and moat times getting away with it. Judges and lawyers, you have any idea how hard it is to even being charges let alone get a convictions. You don't get it, this happens to people that don't break the law as well. And it shouldn't happen to people that do, cop is not the judge and and executioner. You sounded like black people need to work on the perception people have of them, they have, they aren't listening. My quote doesn’t like to be broken up for whatever reason on an ipad, so i’m sorry for that ahead of time, Ok. Now i know this is sort of rediculous, but when i watch a show like LivePD and someone gets arrested it’s all “I KNOW MY RIGHTS, YOU AINT STOPPING ME, YOU AINT RECORDING ME” and many times when these police brutality things are shown you can see the guy getting arrested resisting. Even if it is running away. Does that justify, in anyway police brutality? No. Will it solve every act of police brutality? No. But, a yes sir, hands up, will do a lot to improve your odds. Cops aren’t the best and brightest. They are just like you and me, maybe even a little below average. If you give a frustrated person authority they are bound to use it. My suggestion is to at least pretend to respect their authority. It will go a long way in avoiding confrontation. Police brutality happens to innocent people, but it happens to completely innocent people a lot less than it happens to people who commit crimes. Again, criminal actions aren’t justification for police brutality. It happens, the goal most achievable is to try to avoid it. I think people in general need to work to improve themselves, instead of focusing on the faults of others. If people aren’t listening to blacks trying to improve their image, they definitely won’t listen to them complain about police brutality. Just looks at what our own president is doing, working to actively shut them up. So, protesting police brutality may be justified, but how effective will it be? I think it will just build resentment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: So, protesting police brutality may be justified, but how effective will it be? I think it will just build resentment. I get this isn't your problem, but saying nothing does nothing. Your perspective seem's warped by the idea that some people deserve that, so the grey area just comes with the territory. We were jus talking about better screening cops, that's a start...that you seem to consider pointless. How much of this thread have you read? You sound like you have your on part of picture that matters to you, not this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Renegade7 said: I get this isn't your problem, but saying nothing does nothing. That's not cool. Same crap you tried with me. Read what she is saying. Digest it... Captain Save-a-...rarely wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 5 hours ago, Kosher Ham said: That's not cool. Same crap you tried with me. Read what she is saying. Digest it... Captain Save-a-...rarely wins. I'm not perfect, Kosh. If neither of you want to be part of the solution, that's fine, you don't have to be. Denying it's a real problem is something I have trouble with people saying. Asked what you thought white privelege was and if you thought it was real, you never responded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 I did respond. You didn't like my response and assumed that I was white. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Kosher Ham said: I did respond. You didn't like my response and assumed that I was white. Shoulda been another post after that, I saw you say that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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