c.iggy Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 First I just want to say I've been a longtime 'lurker' of this forum but haven't signed on or contributed to this forum until now. I apologize if this has been discussed before but I'd appreciate your input. So I've been watching plenty of game film of David Amerson in college as well as the pros. Honesty see how he's been exposed and not playing to his strengths (Zone coverage and best defending when looking at the QB). What are your thoughts on this secondary? CB: B. Breelund (Better when lined up against a WR) CB: T. Waynes? (The only pick worthy of a top 5 pick in the 2015 draft in the secondary, reminds me of a slightly shorter Revis/Sherman/Peterson combo with speed) FS: D.Hall (returns from his injury, positional switch, and needed experience in the secondary) SS: D. Amerson (brings size and better zone recognition to the safety position) FOR THE RECORD, I have always been an advocate of building through the trenches every year and even trading down, but I just don't see the eye-opening talent in the top 5 for a offensive lineman. If the 2 top picks are Winston & Mariota, I hope the Redskins scouting watch list ranks Trae Waynes, Leonard Williams, and Vic Beasley (In that Particular Order) Other defensive prospects, Leonard Williams although does remind me of Richard Seymour in his prime/ Calais Campbell the past four seasons. Danny Shelton whom I like as a 3 down NT (eventually 2 down) cog in the mold of Casey Hampton/ Vince Wilfork prospect may have have slipped to mid 1st round. The top OL prospects look like borderline top 10 picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidFan Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 How on earth could Danny Shelton have dropped after his combine? Because of Beasley showing up? I think Shelton increased his merit as well. I would be happy with either of those guys and if we could trade down and still get one then I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I want to see all of these players outside of Hasletts scheme before making any judgements on their play. If Amerson continues to struggle with new coaches than I think it's time to panic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Yeah I'm willing to let the Amerson thing play out another year before any decisions are made. I was never a big Hall guy and his injury never really hit me too badly. But it turns out his was one of the bigger injuries we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I don't think i agree with all the talk of Hall to safety. IF he comes back healthy enough to play safety, then he's healthy enough to play corner. And IF he comes back that healthy, he's a better corner than Amerson is showing himself to be, and given that Breeland played so well, some of the pressure to lock down the #1 guy can be alleviated. IF he comes back, he and Breeland are two decent options as starting cornerback. (and this assumes that Breeland continues to grow and get better, rather than take a decided step backwards, as Amerson did.) I am more willing to consider moving Amerson to safety because he's a lot younger than Hall, and the old "teaching an old dog new tricks" isn't applicable. Amerson may be able to make an early transition and become better. As much as i respect DHall, i don't think he can. He's the old dog, and he's undersized. He's not a tackler, and he's a better ballhawk when he can drape all over somebody and harrass the crap out of them. He's not afraid to stick his head in, but he's not a hitter. He's a punk, and i mean that in the finest sense of the word, he's best when he's frustrating receivers, right in their hip pocket and in their ear all game, smacking the ball out and shoving them around. Either way, in the OP scenario, that's two converted corners at safety, one of which is an old dog trying a new trick, and the other is a huge question mark. frankly, i thought Amerson gave up last year, and that's a big red flag for me.If I'm joe Barry, i'm studying his play down the stretch last year, and if he did quit, he can't start. He has to earn his way in. (Of course, if i am Joe Barry, that never happens, because after my debacle in Detroit, i would have done the right thing and committed ritual seppuku to save my family the shame.) Any consideration to Philip Thomas developing? Someone has to play nickel. The way i see it, we have to land a free agent or two, maybe even three depending on how deep we dig in the barrel. We simply don't have the ability to draft what we need and still be able to field a complete team in September. May have to go the Ryan Clark route again, try and get a vet that isn't completely checked out this time.. get somebody on the lesser side who may have some contribution left. we absolutely must draft whichever position Amerson ends up not playing, and the one he does, too, since i don't think he can be counted upon yet. And we can't really afford to go try and dig gold in the late rounds to get them.. we need guys who may be able to step in and go in week one. McCloughan definitely has his work cut out for him. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Thats my ?, where's Thomas in his development. I mean a true Saf that seems to be better fit than gang vet coming off injury and unproven CB. I did hypothesize Breeland moving to safety because of Jon gruffness comments on MNF when he slipped that in. How would he ever have knowledge of that, must have been discussed in house. However, with new D coord, coaches, I guess its anyones guess right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rook Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 First off, nice first post. Nice hypothesis with qualifying arguments. I like the idea of upgrading CB position while also trying to fix FS/SS. Unfortunately, I see two safeties who get burnt on double moves in that lineup. I think play action will eat up Amerson. The Rook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.iggy Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 How on earth could Danny Shelton have dropped after his combine? Because of Beasley showing up? I think Shelton increased his merit as well. I would be happy with either of those guys and if we could trade down and still get one then I'm all for it. Maybe my expectation are high on this kid to be the next Haloti Ngata, he's just not as athletic horizonally and not as quick. His job is to plug the middle and has a knack for penetrating the pocket but won't be flexible in rotating to the 3-4 end spot which Ngata can do. Shelton's value is a healthy B.J. Raji. Any consideration to Philip Thomas developing? Someone has to play nickel. ~Bang Thats my ?, where's Thomas in his development. I mean a true Saf that seems to be better fit than gang vet coming off injury and unproven CB. I did hypothesize Breeland moving to safety because of Jon gruffness comments on MNF when he slipped that in. How would he ever have knowledge of that, must have been discussed in house. However, with new D coord, coaches, I guess its anyones guess right now. I honestly liked P. Thomas when he was drafted a few years ago. I just don't know how to critique his play when he was injured his rookie year and last year's secondary play was so horrible that most plays were Amerson to blame and Hall's absence didn't help the assesment later in the season. Hall's tackling may not be elite but it's more than servicable, a natural ball hawk, not afraid to lower to use his body on the run, and always looks to be the next guy ripping the ball off the ball carrier. I think he's looking to transition to the safety spot just like his old Raiders teammate Charles Woodson. While I respect your insight and agree on the assessment on Amerson, do you think Hall would be limited to a Nickel/ Slot role based on his experience and at his salary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I'm not as down on Amerson as others are after last year. He was a bit of high risk project coming out anyway and I think last year he was put in crsp situations time after time. I'd rather wait and see how he looks this season under new coaching before we start lookin at position changes. Additionally, It's not that common for CBs to convert to S and be successful so the odds that we would have 2 on the roster at the same time is not very good at all. Hall coming back from 2 Achilles injuries with declining athletic ability already due to age doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies about a move to FS either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 won't it be funny when we draft the best WR or RB at our First Pick... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Amerson didn't study enough to be a good DB so without a major change in mental approach there's no way in hell he could move to Safety. You'd be asking a player who has shown he didn't pay attention in the classroom to signal coverages to other DBs. Recipe for disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 For those who want to give Amerson a pass. Are you totally comfortable with that? Shouldn't there be a backup plan? A healthy plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Amerson didn't study enough to be a good DB so without a major change in mental approach there's no way in hell he could move to Safety. You'd be asking a player who has shown he didn't pay attention in the classroom to signal coverages to other DBs. Recipe for disaster.Was there a report that I missed? Where did this information come from? For those who want to give Amerson a pass. Are you totally comfortable with that? Shouldn't there be a backup plan? A healthy plan?No, so if a CB is the BPA at any of our picks then by all means, go for it and we can sort it out later based on performance.I'm just not ready to call him a failure over last year and start prepping for a position change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Moving Amerson and Hall to safety is not a good idea. If this was college then fine. But these guys are pros and neither of them have played these positions as professionals. Amerson had a bad year. He's a second year guy. Let me work his way out of it. Hopefully he has a good off season and can rebound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Well, Keim is reporting the draft is pretty weak at safety, so unless we somehow trade back and draft Collins, we aren't likely to find a starter in the draft. Right now, neither safety we have can be penciled in as a starter. Hall isn't going to move to safety this year, not with him rehabbing from injury. If you are going to convert a guy, you need a full offseason to do it, and we will be fortunate if Hall is even ready to play by training camp, if not the season. As for Amerson, I don't know what the new staff feels about him, but he really let his play slip at the end of last season. I wouldn't be surprised if some corners are pressed into duty on occasion at safety (Like Biggers was at times), but I doubt any of them will be playing there full time this season. Reality is that we will have to find guys on the FA market. Most likely they will be scrubs similar to the ones we've had the past few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortisBetts Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I am absolutely against moving Amerson to safety. As a safety, his job would be to play deep most likely as he wouldn't really fit as a box safety. With his weakness in biting on double moves and just coming up to make plays rather than sitting back, I don't know how well he would really fit. I think it would lead to a lot of broken coverage deep and cause a lot of big plays for the opposing offenses. His problem was getting beat deep. The last thing I want in a safety is getting beat deep since he is the last line of defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 For those who want to give Amerson a pass. Are you totally comfortable with that? Shouldn't there be a backup plan? A healthy plan? There should be depth. But moving Amerson to a position he's not suited for is probably not a healthy backup plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 For those who want to give Amerson a pass. Are you totally comfortable with that? Shouldn't there be a backup plan? A healthy plan? Yes I'm comfortable with it. We aren't winning a Super Bowl this season and if he struggles than we know what we need going into the next off-season. There's no need to try and plug every hole this year. Just let the young guys play and develop, we can go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAlvinWalton Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ronnie Lott - Rod Woodson - Charles Woodson Can someone give me any examples of a NFL CB who switched to FS/SS and was above average (or actually good) that wasn't one of the above mentioned HOF type players? Can we please stop with this nonsense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ronnie Lott - Rod Woodson - Charles Woodson Can someone give me any examples of a NFL CB who switched to FS/SS and was above average (or actually good) that wasn't one of the above mentioned HOF type players? Can we please stop with this nonsense? Malcolm Jenkins and Antrell Rolle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Hall has never looked good at safety. Amerson doesn't study much. This would be possibly the worst answer to safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSkins Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ronnie Lott - Rod Woodson - Charles Woodson Can someone give me any examples of a NFL CB who switched to FS/SS and was above average (or actually good) that wasn't one of the above mentioned HOF type players? Can we please stop with this nonsense? Before he was drafted a few draftniks made the case that he could play safety in the NFL. I don't see why it can be 100% ruled out this early in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAlvinWalton Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Malcolm Jenkins and Antrell Rolle. OK, I guess I did say "above average" but I think these two are much closer to average than above average IMO (I think Rolle is better). I mean, the Saints let Jenkins walk and he sure didn't help the Eagles secondary last year...and the best thing I could say about Rolle is that he has provided a steady reliable presence in the locker room and solid pass coverage on the field for the NYG. Thanks for the names though I had forgot that Rolle started as a CB in ARZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAlvinWalton Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Before he was drafted a few draftniks made the case that he could play safety in the NFL. I don't see why it can be 100% ruled out this early in his career. Yes, anything is possible...but if you have been watching D.Hall and Amerson the last couple of years...I think you can 100% rule out the idea of D.Hall being an above average FS and Amerson being an above average SS. Sorry, thems just the facts...and by "facts" I mean my opnions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSkins Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Yes, anything is possible...but if you have been watching D.Hall and Amerson the last couple of years...I think you can 100% rule out the idea of D.Hall being an above average FS and Amerson being an above average SS. Sorry, thems just the facts...and by "facts" I mean my opnions Maybe getting called out by Deion will have a positive effect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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