No Excuses Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 https://news.vice.com/article/legal-pot-in-the-us-is-crippling-mexican-cartels Marijuana has accounted for nearly half of all total drug arrests in the US for the past 20 years, according to the FBI’s crime statistics. And according to the Department of Justice (DOJ), a large portion of the US illegal drug market is controlled directly by Mexican cartels. The DOJ’s National Drug Intelligence Center, which has since been shut down, found in 2011 that the top cartels controlled the majority of drug trade in marijuana, heroin, and methamphetamine in over 1,000 US cities. Now, those cartels and their farmers complain that marijuana legalization is hurting their business. And some reports could suggest that the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) is more interested in helping to protect the Mexican cartels’ hold on the pot trade than in letting it dissipate. Interesting read, although chalk full of speculation. It does make sense though because we've seen law enforcement agencies support stricter drug policies to maintain their bloated budgets. Legalization of marijuana will surely reduce a lot of workload for many government employees who right now are making a living off of the imprisonment of non-violent criminals. Obviously the idea of small government is incredibly popular in the US. The Republicans get elected by just saying it, without bothering to enforce it. I can't think of many issues that can as easily accomplish this than a complete overhaul on our war on drugs. I think this quote is very telling: “We’ve spent 1.3 trillion since 1972 on the drug war. What have we gotten for that? Drugs are cheaper and easier to get than ever before,” Nelson told VICE News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Meh ... nothing surprising at all. The rationale for funding at least some of the many intelligence agencies was because the military couldn't be trusted not to inflate the threat and thus drive increases in their budget. 'Small government' for most is simply a lie for not funding stuff we don't like. There has never been interest in small government when applied to the military, law enforcement etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Good. Just legalize it already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 sounds like BS, the ability to possess and use combined with the high prices is not gonna crimp the cartels......now if they loosened up growing and selling more and laid off the taxes it would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I'm one of the only people in the Internet who thinks legalization is a bad idea. (Hard drugs) People are generally stupid. We cannot handle twinkles in this country, much less legalized heroin. I'm okay with decriminalization in a lot of cases but legalization is just a really bad idea, usually championed by young idealists who are convinced that everything that is wrong in this country could be fixed by bringing back the Wild West. Temper tantrum response in 3, 2, 1.... Now, I do think drug laws in this country go way too far, but this legalization talk is just insane given how Americans deal with things like alcohol, sugar, cigarettes, and everything else that is bad for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I'm one of the only people in the Internet who thinks legalization is a bad idea. (Hard drugs) People are generally stupid. We cannot handle twinkles in this country, much less legalized heroin. I'm okay with decriminalization in a lot of cases but legalization is just a really bad idea, usually championed by young idealists who are convinced that everything that is wrong in this country could be fixed by bringing back the Wild West. Temper tantrum response in 3, 2, 1.... Now, I do think drug laws in this country go way too far, but this legalization talk is just insane given how Americans deal with things like alcohol, sugar, cigarettes, and everything else that is bad for you. How about decriminalization? Regardless of whether you think drugs should be entirely legal, it is insane to put millions of people in prison with hardened criminals just for using them. (I know you said this, I just want to emphasize it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 I'm one of the only people in the Internet who thinks legalization is a bad idea. (Hard drugs) People are generally stupid. We cannot handle twinkles in this country, much less legalized heroin. I'm okay with decriminalization in a lot of cases but legalization is just a really bad idea, usually championed by young idealists who are convinced that everything that is wrong in this country could be fixed by bringing back the Wild West. Temper tantrum response in 3, 2, 1.... Now, I do think drug laws in this country go way too far, but this legalization talk is just insane given how Americans deal with things like alcohol, sugar, cigarettes, and everything else that is bad for you. I certainly don't think legalization should be on the table for heroine, cocaine etc. Heck, large scale distribution should remain a major criminal violation for them. I think the conversation should be different for marijuana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 How about decriminalization? Regardless of whether you think drugs should be entirely legal, it is insane to put millions of people in prison with hardened criminals just for using them. (I know you said this, I just want to emphasize it) I'm okay with it of course for marijuana and a few other drugs. But I think drugs like heroin should remain illegal. I would like to see a shift away from possession and using and a real hard line on selling and importing I have mixed feelings about cocaine, not sure i know enough about it to be honest 1) Someone posts an article which makes a lot of claims (I suspect, without supporting them. But I confess I haven't read it yet.) about decriminalizing marijuana.2) And you jump in with a post condemning the people (who, so far, do not exist in the thread) who want to legalize heroin and bring back the Wild West.3) And you want to label, in advance, anybody who disagrees with your rant against the voices that aren't here, as "temper tantrum"?Have you considered switching to decaf? The article cited statistics on the drug war. I suspect the majority of that money has been used to fight hard drugs like coke and heroin. So, it was on the table. And I've been down that libertarian wormhole with the Wild West more times than I care to admit. Wasn't a label, more truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 How about decriminalization? Regardless of whether you think drugs should be entirely legal, it is insane to put millions of people in prison with hardened criminals just for using them. (I know you said this, I just want to emphasize it) it might be interesting to look at incarceration rates in the states legalizing it over time......I think idiots generally find a way to screw up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I don't love how we are going about doing this. Putting drug users in prison was stupid. But I'm not sure how smart it would be to let everyone do as many drugs as they want either. I like the idea that private, legal distribution of drugs is wrecking drug economies. But I also don't think we want cities filled with pot stores. I can't imagine the high fashion boutique wanting to be on that block. The obvious move to me seems to be general legalization of marijuana but with distribution set up through something akin to the old state liquor stores. I don't know how you could this with coke or heroin but decriminalization is probably the first step. I think we need to move expenditures on law enforcement to treatment. Replacing a country of alcoholics with a country of potheads should not be the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Does anybody know anybody that has ever gone to jail for using pot? Selling it? I'm not saying there isn't some bureaucracy associated with the control of the use/distribution of pot because it is illegal, but based on my experience with people that used and even sold pot when I was younger the number of people in jail for it seems like it must be a negligible percentage of our prison population. And I'd not at all be convinced that there isn't at least equivalent usage of government resources for the legal, but regulated distribution of pot. The idea that we are going to save money through changes in the criminal justice system for legalizing pot seems badly flawed to me. Cocaine? That would be a different story. For legalization/decriminalization. Against commercialization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mocountyskins Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I think it should be legalized but there are going to be complications. People complain about smokers all the time and how 2nd hand smoke smells like crap and its how its awful. I agree to a certain extent, I don't smoke cigs and I don't want to smell cigs when I'm inside somewhere but I don't think smokers should be bothered while they are outside. But with weed man that stuff smells like straight armpits and that smell is strong too. I can smell weed from 2 blocks away and it is so annoying. Maybe because I don't smoke I don't like the smell idk but it smells like ass to me. I know that people are not going to just be toting on every street outside but man that smell makes me want to plug my nose. Also from my understanding, smoking anything will make tar in your lungs so therefore I should be able to smoke my Shisha anywhere I want since all it has in it is Tobacco and Glycerin and no harmful chemicals like Cigs do. Atleast the brand that I buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 One of my close friends got arrested for smoking marijuana when we were in our early 20s. It was his first and only offense, he received three months probation. I highly doubt there are very many people bunking with serial killers in prison because they smoked some weed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I'm 100% on board with weed being legal. I'm not advocating for all other drugs to be legal, just marijuana. There is absolutely no reason that alcohol should be legal and marijuana illegal. Either they both should be illegal or both legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 One of my close friends got arrested for smoking marijuana when we were in our early 20s. It was his first and only offense, he received three months probation. I highly doubt there are very many people bunking with serial killers in prison because they smoked some weed. If it is your first offense, sure. If it is your third offense, and you are a poor minority without a good lawyer - I'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Mexican cartels are pieces of ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Decriminalization is good enough. I think full legalization is a bit too far. I would like to see court mandated counseling for drug charges and other non-violent crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 If it is your first offense, sure. If it is your third offense, and you are a poor minority without a good lawyer - I'm not so sure. There are people who get to a third offense for marijuana possession and use but I'm supposed to believe some pothead who told me it's not addictive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 There are people who get to a third offense for marijuana possession and use but I'm supposed to believe some pothead who told me it's not addictive? It depends on the person. Marijuana can be mentally addictive, but far from physically addictive. Junkies on cocaine, heroin, etc. have strong physical effects when they stop using. I bet those people who kept getting caught by the cops with weed thought they could get away with it, not so much they were addictive. I smoked stupid amounts of marijuana from 16-28. Then I stopped. First couple of weeks were tough, but after that it was a breeze. I never get the urge to smoke anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Serious question though: Why should alcohol be legal but not marijuana? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mocountyskins Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Leave Alcohol alone. I think weed should be legal but I hate that argument and I hate when people bring it up because if you keep shining light on what alcohol does it feels like you're tying to take it away from me and then I want you to die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Leave Alcohol alone. I think weed should be legal but I hate that argument and I hate when people bring it up because if you keep shining light on what alcohol does it feels like you're tying to take it away from me and then I want you to die Point proven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 It depends on the person. Marijuana can be mentally addictive, but far from physically addictive. Junkies on cocaine, heroin, etc. have strong physical effects when they stop using. I bet those people who kept getting caught by the cops with weed thought they could get away with it, not so much they were addictive. I smoked stupid amounts of marijuana from 16-28. Then I stopped. First couple of weeks were tough, but after that it was a breeze. I never get the urge to smoke anymore. Personally, I'm of a mind that everything and anything can be addictive and some things are just more so than others. You quit marijuana easily, but apparently a guy like Fred Davis will sabotage a lucrative career for it. I was a heavy drinker in college, but one day I just decided to stop and I've had drunk beer or hard liquor ever since. Some other people are alcoholics who let it ruin their lives and families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 Does anybody know anybody that has ever gone to jail for using pot? Selling it? Half of our prison population are drug offenders. Half of that drug offender prison population are people jailed for marijuana. That's effectively 25% of our prison population. An overwhelming majority (87% as recent as 2012) of the marijuana offenders are taken in for possession and the rest are jailed for sale/manufacturing. The people most affected this by are minorities. Rates of usage amongst African Americans/whites for marijuana are about the same but arrest for possession is almost 4x for African American. Taking steps towards pot legalization has the potential to reduce our prison population by almost 25%. That's a fairly huge number. I know based on the experience of one of my close friends that even one charged offense for marijuana can be crippling for people, especially in terms of what kind of employment opportunities are available to you. I'm not a fan of anecdotal stories when statistics paint a very clear picture. But what I experienced in high school really showed the problem of this issue. Marijuana use was quite high in my high school. The demographics were really interesting; our school had a huge socioeconomic divide. Right in the middle of Fairfax County it had kids who came from wealthy families of lobbyists, business owners etc and all of them lived in wealthy neighborhoods. The other half of the school were mostly poor kids from immigrant Latin American or African American families. I smoked pot with kids from both demographics. The only ones I know who got in legal trouble were the kids from poor socioeconomic backgrounds. One girl I was friends with got busted while hotboxing in her car. Her dad is a big time Republican lobbyist in DC. Didn't even get a charge or community service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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