WP: Redskins’ 3-4 defense, finally built to Jim Haslett’s liking, is capable of causing havoc

[darrelgreenie]

I'm not here to defend Haslett.

I stated last year that I thought we should pick up Wade and the year prior advocated different options at DC.

But its not because I think Haslett is bad but because like most coaches he's only as good as the personnel, he doesn't "out scheme".

The defense we saw on Thursday is not the same defense we had prior.

No D-Hall.

Some fans completely discount Hall but he's a solid (albeit inconsistent) CB and a good leader.

Hatcher banged up.

Hatcher has been a force; but he isn't healthy and it shows.

The DL isn't the same without a Hatcher at close to 100%.

No Cofield.

Not having Cofield is a huge problem that was masked by the Jags suckitude.

Loss of depth on the DL.

Speaks for itself.

Brandon Meriweather looked like a player that didn't belong out on the field.

But why was he out there? BECAUSE THE FO HAS ONCE AGAIN FAILED TO ADDRESS THE SAFETY POSITION.

[Thinking Skins]

I'm not here to defend Haslett.

I stated last year that I thought we should pick up Wade and the year prior advocated different options at DC.

But its not because I think Haslett is bad but because like most coaches he's only as good as the personnel, he doesn't "out scheme".

The defense we saw on Thursday is not the same defense we had prior.

No D-Hall.

Some fans completely discount Hall but he's a solid (albeit inconsistent) CB and a good leader.

Hatcher banged up.

Hatcher has been a force; but he isn't healthy and it shows.

The DL isn't the same without a Hatcher at close to 100%.

No Cofield.

Not having Cofield is a huge problem that was masked by the Jags suckitude.

Loss of depth on the DL.

Speaks for itself.

Yeah, I think the injuries really hurt us, and even though our depth is looking decent, its really being tested. Like Jenkins hasn't played horrible but he went down last game. Baker has looked pretty good next to Hatcher, but he was ejected in the Philly game. Orakpo has been MIA, and Kerrigan has shown up on some plays but hasn't been consistent. I really expected 98/91 to be the guys on our defense who made our line look good, but it seems to be the other way, like we need our DL to be really good in order for these two to have good games.

Brandon Meriweather looked like a player that didn't belong out on the field.

But why was he out there? BECAUSE THE FO HAS ONCE AGAIN FAILED TO ADDRESS THE SAFETY POSITION.

In their defense, they did draft some guys in the secondary (Amerson, Thomas, Rambo), but those guys just haven't developed yet. We were even in negotiations with ?Talib? or ?Revis? but neither bit. Same with Mitchell at FS who i loved (but he hasn't really done much so far this year).

Depending on what we do with these two roster spots though, we may see your boy Davis get some playing time at S next week. I have a feeling that we'll sign P. Thomas, but if we don't he's the #3 guy at S so he may get reps for Meri or Clark.

[darrelgreenie]

...I really expected 98/91 to be the guys on our defense who made our line look good, but it seems to be the other way, like we need our DL to be really good in order for these two to have good games.

I've always believed the converse. Everything starts with a good DL, especially in a 34. Imo the plan for depth at the DL has been suspect from the outset. Our DL unit is old, and the FO hasn't contributed many resources to build young depth.

They been keeping guys like Bowen around as if they expected him to contribute.

In their defense, they did draft some guys in the secondary (Amerson, Thomas, Rambo), but those guys just haven't developed yet. We were even in negotiations with ?Talib? or ?Revis? but neither bit. Same with Mitchell at FS who i loved (but he hasn't really done much so far this year).

Depending on what we do with these two roster spots though, we may see your boy Davis get some playing time at S next week. I have a feeling that we'll sign P. Thomas, but if we don't he's the #3 guy at S so he may get reps for Meri or Clark.

I was talking about the Safety position not the secondary as a whole. And the S you speak of were later round picks not the type of players you expect to be starters. Rambo was okay considering his draft position and Thomas was injured early. Neither of those players were considered anything special in their draft class. They cut a S prior to the start of the offseason that imho was better then Rambo and Thomas. Now we're back to digging around the UDFA/late round draft picks and hoping to win the lottery.

That doesn't sound like much of plan to me. And rumored interest in Mitchell doesn't address the problem, interest is great but meaningless action signing someone is a solution. I didn't think much of Mitchell anyhow, I thought he was overrated.

I look forward to Akeem Davis but I'm not hopeful, they seem to like Brandon.

I can't believe Clemons is out there and a safety desperate team like us isn't sniffing?

Heck I thought that if Clemons was released before instead of after Duke Nacho I would have ranked Clemons higher then Duke.

[Thinking Skins]

I was talking about the Safety position not the secondary as a whole. And the S you speak of were later round picks not the type of players you expect to be starters. Rambo was okay considering his draft position and Thomas was injured early. Neither of those players were considered anything special in their draft class. They cut a S prior to the start of the offseason that imho was better then Rambo and Thomas. Now we're back to digging around the UDFA/late round draft picks and hoping to win the lottery.

That doesn't sound like much of plan to me. And rumored interest in Mitchell doesn't address the problem, interest is great but meaningless action signing someone is a solution. I didn't think much of Mitchell anyhow, I thought he was overrated.

I look forward to Akeem Davis but I'm not hopeful, they seem to like Brandon.

I can't believe Clemons is out there and a safety desperate team like us isn't sniffing?

Heck I thought that if Clemons was released before instead of after Duke Nacho I would have ranked Clemons higher then Duke.

I agree with this. I'm not sure what the word on Clemons is and why we haven't brought him in. I was happy with bringing in Duke when he was cut, but now that he's on IR, I'd think that we'd at least bring in Clemons for a talk.

The thing about Davis is just like it was for Robinson, they gave him a half and he did what Rambo couldn't do - he made plays. And that pic probably helped him a lot in terms of showing that he should get more snaps in the backfield. Hopefully Davis gets some time on defense and at minimum he could be a guy to take Riley's place on third downs and cover TEs. I know they like Meri, but we're thin and its not like Meri's a guy known for being healthy (or not getting suspended). I'm not saying I'm anti-Thomas, but I'm not putting a lot of stock in him until I actually see him play.

We're getting to a point injury-wise that I'd like to see what we have in terms of depth. Its about to be either we play the lottery with Thomas and Davis and Robinson or we have no bodies to line up back there.

[Rskins06]

3 pretty solid games and 1 bad game, injuries, inexperience, etc. hopefully the Giant game was a fluke but only time will tell. History tells us the Giant game has been more of the norm though in the Haslett era as DC.

[darrelgreenie]

Hopefully Davis gets some time on defense and at minimum he could be a guy to take Riley's place on third downs and cover TEs. I know they like Meri, but we're thin and its not like Meri's a guy known for being healthy (or not getting suspended). I'm not saying I'm anti-Thomas, but I'm not putting a lot of stock in him until I actually see him play.

We're getting to a point injury-wise that I'd like to see what we have in terms of depth. Its about to be either we play the lottery with Thomas and Davis and Robinson or we have no bodies to line up back there.

You hit the nail on the head here from a scheme perspective. I have no idea why Haslett plays so much base personnel in repsonse to 3 Wide. Just match-up with nickel. Why put a good LB like Riley in a bad spot? When you can just match personnel?

I don't have a high opinion of Thomas, I thought he was limited as a prospect and my opinion has only decreased because of his injuries.

Btw-I like Robinson too but didn't mention him because he had a high ankle sprain and I assume he's gonna be out

[zoony]

The story of NFL coaching success is a story if talent on the field. Fans don't get that and never will

[Thinking Skins]

Does anybody know if Haslett's contract was extended in the offseason?

[Alexa]

Uncontested TD's are what's so hard to watch with this defense. Are these guys capable of playing any bump and run? And jamming at the line? Also why put Orakpo in coverage of he's suppose to be the best pass rusher? This 3-4 has been an epic failure. Time to go back to the 4-3. Our defense was never this bad under Williams and Blache. The only havoc it's causes is to my brain watching it.

[skinsfan212689]

^^^

 

100% agree!

[planter]

We had a "thin" defense but with some real talent. Then the talent got injured.

Never seen anything like it. Shortest season...ever.HTT?

[HAILSKINSNYC]

Wade Phillips should be our D-Coordinator

[Destino]

The story of NFL coaching success is a story if talent on the field. Fans don't get that and never will

 

Coaching is about getting the most out of what you got.  Bad coaches get less, good coaches get more.  How much is there to get is determined by the talent on the field.  Haslett is not an over achiever. 

[skins island connection]

The story of NFL coaching success is a story if talent on the field. Fans don't get that and never will

 

 Can you elaborate on this a little more on your meaning?

[HtownRocks111]

I'm not too sure I agree with most of these statements.  The Eagles/Giants both played very similar styles against us.  I'm not sure even if our guys were healthy they had enough time to get to the QB to cause trouble before he threw the ball.  

 

The coverage has been absurd in the passing game.  The WRs get off the LOS without being touched and can complete a 5-7 yard pass without any interference from the defense whatsoever,  If you give that to them all day long the offense will take it.  

 

People get confused between decent pass coverage which leads to a sack, and a "coverage sack".  A "coverage sack" is when the defense shouldn't have a chance to get to the QB, but because its been 5 seconds and there is still not a place the QB to throw to, he holds the ball for a second too long.  What I'm wanting to see is the coverage being able to keep the WRs contained atleast for 2 seconds, not 5.  I'm not asking for it to feel like we have 11 extra guys on the field, I just want it to look like we have 11 and not 4.

[justice98]

evidence of this is in the world cup beer thread.

this whole organization is ****ed. I dont know that this current band of defensive misfits could be coached to be agressive and have an idea of where the ball is even if God was coaching them.

we're probably gonna have to wait for a new dc, and then for this current failboat of a defense to retire/leave in fa.

odds are bruce and gang will make another crony dc hire, and we will be back in the same boat. FUnny thing is I got banned for a week here for calling bruce a scumbag and having "too much vitriol"

by one of the mods here.. guess for not toeing the company line when the gruden hire was announced.. I called it a crony hire and was really upset by it, because the "interview" process was a sham.. and now by week 4 people are starting to see that and want change.

can anyone honestly tell me that gruden was hired because he was the best option?? you knew as soon as he was on the candidate list that the fix was in.

vitriol. pfffft.

 

I always thought, that given the QB, Darrell Bevel would've seemed like an ideal guy to work with RG3.  Cuz as it's turning out, trying to mold RG3 into something he's not is a dicey proposition.  Maybe he'll get it, maybe he won't, but you could've hit the ground running with Bevel who's coached a similar type of QB.  But maybe Bevel's not a people person, his vision didn't jive with Allen, whatever else goes into that decision.

 

But back to Haslett, proof that sometimes stability for stability's sake isn't a great idea.  They needed to start clean after dumping Shanahan.  Maybe keep key position coaches here and there because replacing an entire coaching staff with better people sometimes can be difficult when you're competing with other teams, but the leadership needed to be gone.  Both Shanahans and Haz.  

[chipwhich]

Coaching is about getting the most out of what you got.  Bad coaches get less, good coaches get more.  How much is there to get is determined by the talent on the field.  Haslett is not an over achiever. 

 

Good coaches never get much out of bad talent.  If you can't play in the NFL, you can't play.

[skins island connection]

 

Good coaches never get much out of bad talent.  If you can't play in the NFL, you can't play.

 

 

 Very true.

 But, wouldn't this reflect the inabilities of the scouts?  Its just hard to accept that the players we've gotten are all trash, unless either the scouting dept is doing a bad job or the coaches are doing a bad job.  I could see getting a bad seed here and there, but defensively, especially in the secondary, it has been awful.

 

Haslett isn't a good coach, and there are some good players on defense, but they're just not used properly.

No player, regardless of who it is, never has natural NFL skills built into them; its taught to them, whether pee-wee leagues, high school or college.

 Its how they are taught vs the system they are put into which determines their success. Just as Haslett was a 4-3 coach who gladly accepted a job coaching a 3-4, knowing this wasn't his style, isn't so much of an excuse as it was his chance to coach in the NFL again. If he was any decent, he would have still been in the NFL before Mike got him from the arena league.

[Peregrine]

Its true, the Giants game got out of hand because of the offensive turnovers.  HOWEVER, lets not pretend the Redskins defense was any good when it was on the field.  For anyone who wants to say they arent a big part of the problem, take note that DESPITE playing the Jaguars and Eli Manning, the Redskins have allowed a 104 QB rating to opposing QBs.  Thats worse than EVERY NFL team but the Bucs, the Rams, the Saints, and the Jags I believe.  

 

But I think someone already hit the nail on the head and pointed out part of our struggles is, the FO ONCE again tried to upgrade the offense.  We had the worst defense in Redskins history last year and what did we do to fix it?  Signed one nickel CB, one 52 year old Safety(I love Clark), and Jason Hatcher.  Throw in a couple injuries and you are right back to last year.  They made NO attempt to upgrade it, and the problem with that is Haslett is not an overachiever, he is not a guy that can take a poor defensive roster and make it into something better.  The Skins were set up to fail this offseason.  As much talent as DeSean Jackson is, what good has he done us?  Why couldnt we have spent that 8 million on improving the defense?

[MustangSteve]

The Skins were set up to fail this offseason.  As much talent as DeSean Jackson is, what good has he done us?  Why couldnt we have spent that 8 million on improving the defense?

It does not matter who we get on this defense, they are going to fail over and over again as long as Haslett coaches here. Bring in someone like Greg Williams or Wade Phillips and watch this very Defense play like a competent unit. You can't expect success when your having players like Orakpo cover elite receivers and we haven't had success either, but Haslett keeps doing it. The man is stupid!!! Stupid people should not coach in the NFL, and when stupid people do coach in the NFL, they make all of their players look stupid!!! The end result of a stupid coach is failure, and we see it week after week and year after year with Hasletts Defense.

[skinsfan212689]

It does not matter who we get on this defense, they are going to fail over and over again as long as Haslett coaches here. Bring in someone like Greg Williams or Wade Phillips and watch this very Defense play like a competent unit. You can't expect success when your having players like Orakpo cover elite receivers and we haven't had success either, but Haslett keeps doing it. The man is stupid!!! Stupid people should not coach in the NFL, and when stupid people do coach in the NFL, they make all of their players look stupid!!! The end result of a stupid coach is failure, and we see it week after week and year after year with Hasletts Defense.

I agree with everything you said here. People have to see this Haslett is an issue!

 

Major Issue...

[HtownRocks111]

What gets me is the all out blitz.  It's usually either all or nothing when it comes to Haslett and blitzing. 

[knighthonor]

Its true, the Giants game got out of hand because of the offensive turnovers.  HOWEVER, lets not pretend the Redskins defense was any good when it was on the field.  For anyone who wants to say they arent a big part of the problem, take note that DESPITE playing the Jaguars and Eli Manning, the Redskins have allowed a 104 QB rating to opposing QBs.  Thats worse than EVERY NFL team but the Bucs, the Rams, the Saints, and the Jags I believe.  

 

But I think someone already hit the nail on the head and pointed out part of our struggles is, the FO ONCE again tried to upgrade the offense.  We had the worst defense in Redskins history last year and what did we do to fix it?  Signed one nickel CB, one 52 year old Safety(I love Clark), and Jason Hatcher.  Throw in a couple injuries and you are right back to last year.  They made NO attempt to upgrade it, and the problem with that is Haslett is not an overachiever, he is not a guy that can take a poor defensive roster and make it into something better.  The Skins were set up to fail this offseason.  As much talent as DeSean Jackson is, what good has he done us?  Why couldnt we have spent that 8 million on improving the defense?

because the Offense was just as bad. the team as a whole need improvement.

[HtownRocks111]

because the Offense was just as bad. the team as a whole need improvement.

 

Exactly.  Let's not forget that no matter how bad the defense was, you were also getting back a QB that you risked the future to land in the city of DC.  We needed to give him every opportunity to succeed in a new Jay Gruden offense.  Once we gave Orakpo the franchise tag, there just wasn't much else to spend on the defensive side of the ball after landing Hatcher, Clark, Andre Roberts and Djax.  We had our fingers crossed that we drafted a gem but it doesn't look so promising right now.

 

I still believe we need to sign Jose Gumbs  back to the team to help our poor tackling ST unit and learn from Ryan Clark.  I was hoping an entire season playing with Clark would help Rambo tremendously but that ended almost as quickly as it began.

[theTruthTeller]

I agree with everything you said here. People have to see this Haslett is an issue!

 

Major Issue...

The difference between a bad defense and a good defense is never one player or one coach.  The secondary is bad, really bad.  Every aspect of the defense suffers because of it.  Haslett is probably not a good coach, but there is no way of coaching yourself out of an entire unit being a liability.

 

By the end of the season, maybe Amerson and Breeland are good.  Right now, though, there is little reason for opposing teams not to take the 8 yards of uncontested real estate that the DBs are surrendering and no reason not to blow right by them if they move up.