codeorama Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Well, the two class system is probably correct. The lower income people are the issue. There, I said it. The kids that have the most problems are lower income kids and I do have sympathy. However, when the parents don't do anything to help, it sucks. I'm a single parent. I'm not rich. I struggle. But my son has been brought up correctly. The baseball kids I coach are generally in the upper income bracket. We have 2-3 that are lower income. But we don't tolerate any behavior issues. By no means am I saying that all poor kids suck and all rich kids suck... my son is more towards the poor side in comparison. I am just saying that there is a link between money and behavior at the school I teach at. Again, that does not ring true in every case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliz Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I think this is a lot of the reason my wife and I chose not to have children. Not that we can't be good parents, just don't want to have to deal with the stupidity of all the other kids and parents. Seriously? A lot of the reason? I don't even know where to start. I can share my own story with you. Great post. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 And I hear that. But I'm just saying, you don't have to spank a child to get them to listen. I think it helps, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Or so I heard... Like I said, that's brilliant man. Would love to have some of that implemented in this country. but again, that's another pipe dream. It'll never happen. It makes too much sense. But that would be a good strategy. American high schools used to do this when we had a real manufacturing base. My father graduated in 1963 and had classmates go to work in the local steel mill the next week, where they made a union wage and had awesome benefits. The goal of the school was to create literate, well-behaved citizens. That model can't work any longer because that economy no longer works. I've heard this "send everyone to trade school at age 16" argument, but you are 1) asking parents to accept their children are going to be auto mechanic for the rest of their lives and 2) telling the children that they are going to be auto mechanics for the rest of their lives and 3) counting that there is going to be enough demand for all these auto mechanics for the next 30 years that half of them don't just start stealing cars. I'm not sure there is an easy solution that doesn't involve some sort of miraculous emergence of a new industry (ahhhhh...remember when green jobs were going to save us all), a transition to a European-style economy, or a major war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Well, the two class system is probably correct. The lower income people are the issue. There, I said it. The kids that have the most problems are lower income kids and I do have sympathy. However, when the parents don't do anything to help, it sucks. I guess the question is, who helps the parents? My wife and I talk about this all the time. We live 1500 miles from our nearest relatives. Growing up, both of us had two sets of grandparents within 5 miles of us. Hell, my grandparents lived on the same street. My parents in their lives never spent a dime on child care. Both had solidly middle class jobs that never kept them at work beyond 5 PM. My mom had summers off. My dad had something like 8 weeks of vacation a year. There was time, and there was support. And there weren't a lot of insane demands that I had to be fluent in German by the time I turned 13 or I was going to end up a pauper. I honestly don't know how a single parent or parents with multiple jobs can raise kids today unless there is a massive family support system. And too often, that does not exist at the lower income levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mocountyskins Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Some kids need a good ass whooping. I feel that a lot of people are grateful for the ass whoopings they received as a kid. So why have the ass whoopings stopped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Because of Oprah Lombardi, you are right. I get so much support from my family. I would not make it without them. My dad is a teacher, my brother is a teacher. We all have a standard and the kids have to live up to it. I met a parent one day this year. Her son was having lots of problems. She is working 3 jobs to try to support him. It was sad. She was trying. On the flip side, some parents won't return your calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I can share my own story with you. That's a good story. I was in a similar position. But instead of me distancing myself from those people, I dropped out of school altogether. I don't like saying this, but I think dropping out of school helped me more than it would have had I stayed in school. Had I stayed in school, I'm not sure if I would have been in the position I'm in today. I was always a "good student", but when High School started, I started struggling. Dropped out when I was 14, got my GED when I turned 16 and now I am three semesters away from being the first male in my family to graduate... This where I tie in LKB's post about family support. I gave props to my mom earlier in this thread, but I also have to give a shout out to my sisters. They helped me to be where I am today, and I didn't want them to be the only college graduates in the family lol. Granted they graduated from Georgetown and Trinity, and I am at UDC, but at least I could still say I am a college graduate lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Said every teacher since the beginning of mandatory public education. “Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents and everyone is writing a book.” — Cicero, 43 BCE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Like everything else in America, we are becoming a two-class society, and those parents caught in the middle are desperately trying to push their children into the top class. There is a ton of desperation out there. Yes ... the best kids are at an absolutely phenomenal level. At our local high school science fair judges with PhDs in the field need to study in advance the projects being presented in order to do a decent job. Meanwhile, parents are horrified to hear that the top companies won't even interview general comms or business degree graduates from well-regarded state universities such as Tech or JMU for entry level general positions. It's STEM, Ivy League or GTFO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Teach your kids to become plumbers No matter what, America will always need plumbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Late-stage, death-throes capitalism. Shallow, materialistic parents give rise to shiftless, self-absorbed youth…address the problem with time-release psychoactives and digital babysitters. Oh well, we had a nice run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Yes ... the best kids are at an absolutely phenomenal level. At our local high school science fair judges with PhDs in the field need to study in advance the projects being presented in order to do a decent job. Meanwhile, parents are horrified to hear that the top companies won't even interview general comms or business degree graduates from well-regarded state universities such as Tech or JMU for entry level general positions. It's STEM, Ivy League or GTFO. A few months ago, I interviewed this young man whose math skills were so far off the charts that we really had no common ground. Out of desperation, I started talking about SABREmetrics, and I think he accidently reinvented BABIP while we were talking. I'm assuming he is going to go to MIT and probably will invent a time machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Germany has a lot of its own problems stemming from their methods True - their internship programs have I believe made some of their companies a bit stodgy when it comes to innovation, especially in the wake of the IT revolution. At least I recall reading something along those lines a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 My only response is that in the years that I have been a teacher, you can see a slight decline each year. Each year is a little worse in terms of discipline and knowledge. Sure, there are universal problems and yes, the way admin deals with problems is a huge issue. But, I view our society as the Fall of Rome. History is repeating itself. Shrug. I haven't seen anything like that (in fact, I'd argue the opposite, partly as a result of our school improving over time) and we've been teaching for roughly the same amount of time I believe. I don't believe my opinion carries any more weight than yours, but my point is that I don't think either one of our isolated observations means much in the larger discussion at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Loudoun Public Schools does offer some vocational training integrated with the high school curriculum. I have no idea how well it works, but it's a start http://www.lcps.org/cms/lib4/VA01000195/Centricity/Domain/1020/NEW%202014%20Program%20Offerings.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Loudoun Public Schools does offer some vocational training integrated with the high school curriculum. I have no idea how well it works, but it's a start http://www.lcps.org/cms/lib4/VA01000195/Centricity/Domain/1020/NEW%202014%20Program%20Offerings.pdf we've done it here for ages,and have pretty good business participation. http://www.pasadenaisd.org/skillcenter/SC%20Web%20Page.html they are even opening a high school exclusively for those students(juniors/seniors) instead of splitting half days between campuses. we like our worker bees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Yes ... the best kids are at an absolutely phenomenal level. At our local high school science fair judges with PhDs in the field need to study in advance the projects being presented in order to do a decent job. Meanwhile, parents are horrified to hear that the top companies won't even interview general comms or business degree graduates from well-regarded state universities such as Tech or JMU for entry level general positions. It's STEM, Ivy League or GTFO. Or you can become a civil servant with the DoD and a degree from Phoenix.edu. we've done it here for ages,and have pretty good business participation. http://www.pasadenaisd.org/skillcenter/SC%20Web%20Page.html they are even opening a high school exclusively for those students(juniors/seniors) instead of splitting half days between campuses. we like our worker bees We've had tech center and agriculture classes here for years as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Or you can become a civil servant with the DoD and a degree from Phoenix.edu. I was assuming (incorrectly) a basic level of integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Loudoun Public Schools does offer some vocational training integrated with the high school curriculum. I have no idea how well it works, but it's a start http://www.lcps.org/cms/lib4/VA01000195/Centricity/Domain/1020/NEW%202014%20Program%20Offerings.pdf Same in Montgomery County. Been there for at least 20 years. http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/edison/about/directory.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 In the OP I have trouble getting past the notion of the kid yelling. Just the yelling. I don't care about what he was saying because a child raising his/her voice towards an adult in charge of them is entirely unacceptable and allowing it makes any sort of a disciplined environment impossible. Imagine what an absolute joke the workplace would be if every time a manager demanded something of an employee a shouting match ensued. I'm stunned that this is tolerated at all. Why is expecting kids not to be raging assholes asking too much? Is this allowance making families stronger? Are they less likely to stick you in a home when you're old if you sue their teacher? I have seriously considered moving since having a kid several times and she's only 16 months old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 Destino, the crazy thing is that kids yell at us teachers very frequently. I won't take it and because I'm a male, it doesn't happen to me, but, my coteacher who is female has it happen to her frequently. She is disrespected all the time and I have to step in. It really sucks. The worst I've had is one girl is very hyper, she doesn't know when to stop talking. I came down a little hard on her and she just started saying "Ok ok ok", kind of blowing me off. I just told her "get out". The kids know I don't play and won't back down, they treat me extremely well and the surprising part is that I get so much positive feedback from admin, because the kids love me. Its almost as if they want to be treated tough. I'm ALWAYS fair and I have a fun class, but I won't tolerate disrespect. But many teachers are afraid to stand up to the kids and sadly, the parents are afraid to stand up to the kids UPDATE: Yesterday, the principal talked to the other 2 adults in the room and I'm assuming a few of the students. He said I have nothing to worry about and to just forget about it. It still sucks that I was accused of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Des makes a good point with the scenario he presents. My parents used to tell me that school and chores were my job, so do a good job. I was taught early to be self-sufficient, earn my keep, and be responsible. Accountability is seemingly the main thing missing with more kids these days than when we were kids. They won't take the blame when caught red handed. The punishment was bad either way when I was a kid so might as well own up to it. I can not imagine how my parents would have responded to me yelling in class, yet alone at a teacher or adult. haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forehead Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 To echo some other stories, I was a pretty god awful student in high school. Probably a GPA around 2.4 or 2.5, but I skated by with a 1300 SAT and nailing tests. I absorbed stuff but refused to do homework or pay much attention in class. I was always very respectful to my teachers, with one or two exceptions, but I know I frustrated the hell out of them. I got the wasted potential lecture several times. I went to Nova for a year and did well enough to get into a four year college, but the first year was death for a number of reasons. I went on academic probation and got the last straw talk from my parents. That summer, I worked two jobs to save up money (for beer and other stuff) I had to be at the local golf course for maintenance work starting at 5:00 a.m. After that shift was over, I went home, showered, changed, and put in another six hours at a local food place cutting meat for six more hours. 14-15 hour days for an entire summer, a lot of it hard manual labor. Wouldn't you know, that was my wakeup call. I realized I didn't want to do that my entire life, and my grades improved significantly after that. I wound up bouncing around the government contracting world, becoming a Fed, and working up to where I am now as an Acting Branch Chief. None of that would have happened if I had been directed to auto shop when I was 16, as per the German model. Kids "get it" at different times, some never do. I can't fathom the screaming and disrespect part though. My disrespect went as far as sitting in the back of the classroom quietly and doing my own thing without disrupting the class. I can't imagine getting into it with a teacher. It happened occasionally at my school, but it was rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Forehead - reading your post was like reading the story of my life, except in my case it was mall maintenance rather than a golf course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Wouldn't you know, that was my wakeup call. I realized I didn't want to do that my entire life, and my grades improved significantly after that. I wound up bouncing around the government contracting world, becoming a Fed, and working up to where I am now as an Acting Branch Chief. None of that would have happened if I had been directed to auto shop when I was 16, as per the German model. Kids "get it" at different times, some never do. perhaps it would be a early wakeup call? (as long as the student is not locked into it) would it have hurt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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