BBC: Ukraine sanctions imposed amid Kiev clashes

[SkinInsite]

The lesson is don't give up your nukes. That's how you get a seat at the big boys table.

[alexey]

Looks like Kharkiv, the city where I grew up, is the next battle ground between nationalists from the West, KGB from Russia, and a whole lot of people caught the middle who want peace.

[visionary]

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303801304579413032042408044?mod=e2tw&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303801304579413032042408044.html%3Fmod%3Dwsj_streaming_stream

Moscow Seals Off Ukrainian Bases in Crimea

Kiev Says Attack by Radicals and Russian Troops Repulsed at One Base; Tense Calm at Others

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/BSpringnote

Yulia participating in emergency national security council meeting going on. Doesn't give me much confidence really  

12:22 PM

 

Ukrainian press says Yulia flying to Moscow on 3 March for discussions on Crimea

12:26 PM

 

https://twitter.com/EllenBarryNYT

10 a.m. Monday morning, Moscow time: Tymoshenko & delegation to meet w Putin on "regulation of Crimean crisis." http://timeua.com/news/2/18331.html 

12:47 PM

 

[alexey]

To clarify - I understand that protesters in Kiev are comprised from several different factions, including far right nationalists. Some of those nationalists will come to eastern cities like Kharkiv to cause trouble.

People of Kharkiv are probably divided between support for Russia (older folks) and support for EU (younger folks), but nobody wants people from the outside to come and cause trouble... But people will come and cause trouble - pro-Russian elements that will be instigated by Russia and nationalistic elements that will come from the Western Ukraine.

[visionary]

http://thediplomat.com/2014/02/russia-says-its-building-naval-bases-in-asia-latin-america/?utm_content=buffer26531&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Russia Says Its Building Naval Bases in Asia, Latin America

 

According to RIA Novosti, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Russia is looking to build military bases in Vietnam, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, the Seychelles, Singapore and several other countries.

[JMS]

The lesson is don't give up your nukes. That's how you get a seat at the big boys table.

Well at the time the question was would Russia have allowed an independent nuclear Ukraine on their boarders back in 1994. The thought then is no. Russia would have had no alternative but to have fought and the breakup of the soviet union would not have gone down as peacefully as it otherwise did.

I think the lesson is the Ukraine should have pushed for inclusion in NATO as quickly as they possible could have after achieving independence. They should never have relied on Russia's good graces.

[JMS]

http://thediplomat.com/2014/02/russia-says-its-building-naval-bases-in-asia-latin-america/?utm_content=buffer26531&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Interesting..

 

Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Wednesday the military was engaged in talks with Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Algeria, Cyprus, the Seychelles, Vietnam and Singapore.

“We need bases for refueling near the equator, and in other places,” ITAR-Tass quoted him as saying.

Russia is not looking to establish bases in those locations, but to reach agreement to use facilities there when required.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/russia-seeks-access-bases-eight-countries-its-ships-and-bombers

They are trying to yank our chains. In a global conflict with the US, Russia is not a serious opponent any longer. For a decade they could barely afford to keep their military uniformed. Today they are spending a lot more on their military. They spent 90 billion on their military in 2013.. We spent $680 billion and we didn't have any lost decades to recover from. 90 billion gives Russia the ability to push around it's local neighbors. It does not give them the ability to seriously project power beyond it's neighboring countries much less challenge us abroad. They are all about intimidation though.

[SteveFromYellowstone]

 

I was just wanting you to expand your thinking from post #67 where you said..

 

 

I didn't understand what you were thinking.  

Our TV coverage of this is pathetic.   I watched like 4 national news programs.   They all started with Ukraine at the top of the hour,  spent a few minutes on it, like 2 or 3..  One reiterated that we were unlikely to get involved,   and then they never returned to it for the rest of the show.   MSNBC spent more time on the several month old Chris Christi bridge case than they did on the ongoing invasion of the Ukraine.    I hate hate US news coverage.

 

There was one piece of information which supported your thought about the black sea fleet.   Evidently the US contacted Russia about the several hundred soldiers they've got inside of Ukraine.    Russia said they had some treaty which allowed them to defend their bases in the case of civil unrest with Ukraine. CNN didn't say what treaty Russia was referencing. But as of a few hours ago,  Russia was still saying they respected the territorial integrity of the Ukraine even while the Ukrainian government was going to the UN and calling this a Russian invasion.

 

Okay news coverage is bad I get it... still doesn't change my mind that having Russian military inside the country during a time like this is a BAD thing. I don't understand what I have to expand my thinking about. Them being there vs not being there causes problems and will continue to.

[visionary]

From earlier:

 

 

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/tanais_ua

 

Sergiy Zhadan, famous Ukraine's writer & euromaidan activist, has been attacked in clashes in Kharkiv, Ukraine pic.twitter.com/AoSZtYMDir

 

 

Now in Kiev:

https://twitter.com/MaximEristavi

People are gathering outside Russia's Embassy in Kyiv right now - @sosmaydan pic.twitter.com/AzSa4L11nI

1:25 PM

 

https://twitter.com/Kateryna_Kruk

right now in Kyiv in front of Russian embassy activists are shouting "Putin,take your hands off of Ukraine " 

1:28 PM

 

 

https://twitter.com/A_Davutoglu_eng FM of Turkey

I met with Mustafa Cemil Kırımoğlu, the symbol of Crimean solidarity, as soon as I arrived in Kiev. pic.twitter.com/muBOFAJybr

1:16 PM

 

As of tomorrow I will start meeting with Ukrainian officials to assess the difficult period they are going through.  

1:16 PM

 

I also assessed the common steps that could be taken with US and German Foreign Ministers and EU High Representative Ashton  

1:17 PM

 

Turkey will make every effort to secure Crimea’s future within Ukraine’s territorial integrity  

1:17 PM

 

https://twitter.com/IvoHDaalder

Lithuania and Latvia have already called for NATO Art 4 consults. Need to reassure Allies is vital 1st step 

1:36 PM

 

[Larry]

Sigh. 

 

I've got a feeling that Russia is about to expand, while we do nothing. 

 

But, I really don;t see us doing anything.  And I'm not sure we should.  (Although, I would like to think that not wanting Russia to expand might count as a valid "US interest".) 

[Slateman]

Sigh. 

 

I've got a feeling that Russia is about to expand, while we do nothing. 

 

But, I really don;t see us doing anything.  And I'm not sure we should.  (Although, I would like to think that not wanting Russia to expand might count as a valid "US interest".) 

How?

[Stadium-Armory]

Not much we can really do about it other than protest or potentially sanction. Intervene militarily? I don't think so.

On a tangent.. I watched this fascinating six part BBC special the other day on the break-up of the Yugoslav Republic and the ensuing wars in Croatia and Bosnia Herzegovina. The candid descriptions given by the the principal players are captivating and I recommend this series to anyone who wants to learn about the conflict and has a few hours to kill. It was shot right after The Dayton Accord and doesn't cover Kosovo or the eventual fall of Milosevic.

Anyway, the Serbs used a similar tactic to justify their interventions, which is to say they are acting to protect the Serb population in those areas (Croatia and Bosnia Herzegovina) from persecution by the majority Croats and Bosnian Muslim. Same story in Kosovo (although it wasn't covered in this documentary). There is a notion in that part of the world that its justified to invade your neighbor to protect an ethnic minority from persecution. Maybe its partially justified considering the boundaries of these states have been drawn and redrawn by European powers over the years, with ethnic groups cut off from one another by artificial boundaries.

In the Serb case though, and also in this most recent Russian intervention in Ukraine, my view is that the idea of protecting an ethnic minority is just a cover for the real reason which is territory (or a naval base as may be the case in this situation).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNK0fBa789Y&list=PLKtWgfRAc4aJPBdFw7EzrUZS5lOWwz_h9

[visionary]

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/03/01/nato_needs_to_move_now_on_crimea

NATO Needs to Move Now on Crimea

Admiral James Stavridis (Ret (fmr Supreme Allied commander of NATO)

 

Now that Vladimir Putin's Olympics are over, his gaze has turned inexorably to what he clearly regards as the premier foreign policy priority of the Russian Federation: retaining determinative influence -- if not full control -- over Ukraine.

 

He went to the Russian parliament to formally request permission for what he has already done -- send troops into Ukraine -- and it approved the move. News reports indicate the Russian military has seized Crimea. This is a volatile, dangerous situation without foreign intervention; and his behavior is reckless. Like a chess player leaning forward, his moves are sweeping the board.

What is NATO's move?

 

The United States has responded strongly through normal diplomatic channels, with Secretary of State John Kerry calling this an action with "grave consequences" -- freighted language in the world of diplomacy. The president and secretary of defense have echoed this, and further condemnation will no doubt be forthcoming.

 

 

https://twitter.com/hamishNews

US official confirms to @ABC that earlier today Defense Sec Hagel spoke by phone with Russian Defense Min Sergei Shoigu about Crimea/Ukraine  

2:20 PM

 

https://twitter.com/CFKlebergTT

"I deplore today's decision by Russia on the use of armed forces in Ukraine," EU's Ashton says in statement (PDF): http://www.eeas.europa.eu/statements/docs/2014/140301_01_en.pdf  

2:28 PM

 

https://twitter.com/mpoppel

 

REU: UKRAINE'S ACTING PRESIDENT SAYS HAS GIVEN ORDER TO PUT ARMED FORCES ON COMBAT ALERT  

2:24 PM

 

REU: UKRAINE’S PRIME MINISTER SAYS RUSSIAN FORCES MUST RETURN TO BASE

2:27 PM

 

REU: UKRAINE’S PRIME MINISTER SAYS MILITARY INTERVENTION WOULD LEAD TO WAR AND END TO ANY RELATIONS WITH MOSCOW  

2:28 PM

 

 

https://twitter.com/lou_reuters

Inside UNSC meeting on Ukraine, US, UK & France push for open meeting, Russia wants it closed; procedural banter - diplomats tell @reuters 

2:55 PM

 

 

https://twitter.com/sangwonyoon

Russia Amb to UN Churkin in response to @pamelafalk's question on which UNSC members want open mtng: "hahaha."  

3:16 PM

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/ajamlive

Two Russian anti-submarine warships appear off Sevastopol coast, violating base agreement, Ukraine military source tells Interfax-@Reuters

3:13 PM

 

[visionary]

https://twitter.com/JimAcostaCNN

A senior admin official said POTUS was not at WH national security mtg. But he has been briefed by Nat Sec. Adv Susan Rice and nat sec team.

3:36 PM

 

VP Biden joined the national security meeting at the WH via video conference, a senior admin official said. Biden is in Phoenix today.  

4:02 PM

 

https://twitter.com/JacksonDiehl

@sikorskiradek says a teleconference on Ukraine just ended among FMs from G7 members plus Poland and EU. Bad news for Sochi?

4:06 PM

 

https://twitter.com/AndersFoghR

NATO Allies coordinate closely on grave sit in Ukraine. North Atlantic Council will meet tomorrow followed by NATO-Ukraine Commission

4:11 PM

 

https://twitter.com/mdesgayets

They've decided to make the UNSC meeting on Ukraine public. Starts at 4:15 pm NY time. Watch live here: http://webtv.un.org/ "

4:12 PM

 

https://twitter.com/mpoppel

UN HQ emails: UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon just spoke with President Vladimir Putin - details will follow later 

4:20 PM

 

 

https://twitter.com/lrozen

Ukraine asks UN member states to protect basic principals of the UN, brutally violated by UNSC Permanent member  

4:28 PM

 

Russia's UN envoy Churkin treating it all as a joke . http://webtv.un.org/ 

4:29 PM

 

Churkin: Why does this problem need to result in street manifestations? Why do they need to be encouraged from abroad, by EU? 

4:31 PM

 

Churkin turns facts on their head as usual, saying EU whipped up public, intervened in Ukraine

4:32 PM

 

 

https://twitter.com/mpoppel

Obama speaks by telephone with Putin [RUSSIAN - translation coming] - http://bnowire.com/inbox/?id=2201 

4:37 PM

[Larry]

I assume everybody knows what a waste of breath the UNSC will be, on this matter? 

 

(Not a "I hate the UN" rant.  Just pointing out that the rules are intentionally set up to make it useless, in this case.) 

[visionary]

https://twitter.com/ajamlive

US Ambassador Power: "It is time for the Russian intervention in Ukraine to end."

4:42 PM

 

Samantha Power calls for urgent deployment of UN/OSCE monitors in Ukraine

4:45 PM

 

 

https://twitter.com/sikorskiradek

Poland has demanded an emergency ministerial meeting of the North Atlantic Council on the Russian intervention in Ukraine.

4:44 PM

 

https://twitter.com/andrewsweiss

Bad Obama-Putin phone call. Putin threatened mil action in eastern Ukraine, hyped threat of radical UKR nationalists http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/6752 

5:09 PM

 

 

[visionary]

More on the Budapest Memorandum...looks like it was signed:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/210003244/Budpest-Memorandum

 

 

 

http://bnowire.com/inbox/?id=2207

White House readout of Obama-Putin call
Posted on 03-01 at 22:15:05 CST

[As released by the White House]

Readout of President Obama’s Call with President Putin

President Obama spoke for 90 minutes this afternoon with President Putin of Russia about the situation in Ukraine. President Obama expressed his deep concern over Russia’s clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity, which is a breach of international law, including Russia’s obligations under the UN Charter, and of its 1997 military basing agreement with Ukraine, and which is inconsistent with the 1994 Budapest Memorandum and the Helsinki Final Act. The United States condemns Russia’s military intervention into Ukrainian territory.

The United States calls on Russia to de-escalate tensions by withdrawing its forces back to bases in Crimea and to refrain from any interference elsewhere in Ukraine. We have consistently said that we recognize Russia’s deep historic and cultural ties to Ukraine and the need to protect the rights of ethnic Russian and minority populations within Ukraine. The Ukrainian government has made clear its commitment to protect the rights of all Ukrainians and to abide by Ukraine’s international commitments, and we will continue to urge them to do so.

President Obama told President Putin that, if Russia has concerns about the treatment of ethnic Russian and minority populations in Ukraine, the appropriate way to address them is peacefully through direct engagement with the government of Ukraine and through the dispatch of international observers under the auspices of the United Nations Security Council or the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE). As a member of both organizations, Russia would be able to participate. President Obama urged an immediate effort to initiate a dialogue between Russia and the Ukrainian government, with international facilitation, as appropriate. The United States is prepared to participate.

President Obama made clear that Russia’s continued violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity would negatively impact Russia’s standing in the international community. In the coming hours and days, the United States will urgently consult with allies and partners in the UN Security Council, the North Atlantic Council, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, and with the signatories of the Budapest Memorandum. The United States will suspend upcoming participation in preparatory meetings for the G-8. Going forward, Russia’s continued violation of international law will lead to greater political and economic isolation.

 

 

 

http://bnowire.com/inbox/?id=2208

Ban Ki-moon speaks by telephone with Putin [Kremlin readout]

Posted on 03-01 at 22:31:14 CST

[As released by the Russian government]

Vladimir Putin had a telephone conversation with UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon to discuss the crisis in Ukraine.

Vladimir Putin noted that in case of any escalation of violence against the Russian-speaking population of the eastern regions of Ukraine and Crimea, Russia would not be able to stay away and would resort to whatever measures are necessary in compliance with international law.

Both parties stressed the need to prevent further exacerbation of the crisis in Ukraine.

[JMS]

Sigh. 

 

I've got a feeling that Russia is about to expand, while we do nothing. 

 

But, I really don;t see us doing anything.  And I'm not sure we should.  (Although, I would like to think that not wanting Russia to expand might count as a valid "US interest".)

There is quite a lot we can do.. We could not attend the G-8 summit which Russia is hosting in Sochi later this year. We could get France, Germany, The Uk, Canada, and Japan to not attend too. Hell we got a shot at China not attending they are always very keen to protect international boarders. We could expel Russia from the G-8 for that matter... It's a toss up between them an Italy anyway.

We could freeze Putin's assets abroad, last count about 50 billion dollars. Hell we could freeze the assets of his entire power base / cabal who have been looting Russia's treasury.. Then publish how much each of them have. For that matter we could freze Russia's assets abroad.

We could suspend better trade relation discussions which Russia has been desperate to get. We could suspend a half dozen high level economic talks with Russia scheduled for just the next six months. We could end IMF, and WB assistance. We could look at kicking them out of the WTO. We could cut into their ability to borrow abroad like we did with Iran. We could make it much more dificult for their shipping to make ports of call globally.

We could make this little adventure Putin's worst nightmare... which I'm thinking it already is. We could easily cost the Russian economy trillions of dollars.

Problem is each and every one of those actions has a counter impact on us. How much do we care about this? Given the current state of things, this is a very small action by Russia. Do we want to pull out the big economic guns?

We could also speed up Ukraines entry into the EU and NATO. Hell let Georgia in too why not.. We could revisit our decision on missile defense in Europe.(Poland) which Russia was so bothered by and which we suspended a few years back..Any other former WARSAW pact members want into EU or Nato.. GAME ON..

[JMS]

I assume everybody knows what a waste of breath the UNSC will be, on this matter? 

 

(Not a "I hate the UN" rant.  Just pointing out that the rules are intentionally set up to make it useless, in this case.)

It's the world stage, and it's a demonstration of how isolated Russia is making itself as the rest of the Security Council lines up behind Ukraine.

[JMS]

More on the Budapest Memorandum...looks like it was signed:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/210003244/Budpest-Memorandum

 

http://bnowire.com/inbox/?id=2207

 

http://bnowire.com/inbox/?id=2208

We don't have a security pact with Ukraine. We aren't committed to come to their aid on this.

[Wrong Direction]

I don't need my president to bluster in front of the world. However, he needs to be ready to make big decisions on this one. JMS listed several of them. More are possible. Russia cannot be allowed by the world to attempt to become imperialists again.

[visionary]

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/financial-times-will-ukraine-be-saved-by-the-oligarchs-338072.html

Financial Times: Ukraine oligarchs move fast to save homeland

 

Two of Ukraine’s influential oligarch businessmen on Saturday pledged their support to the interim government in Kiev and promised to defend the homeland against a possible Russian invasion.

 

Speaking with the Financial Times, billionaire Igor Kolomoisky said he had accepted an offer from Kiev to head the regional government in his native Dnipropetrovsk region in eastern Ukraine, where he controls a large share of industry and other businesses.

 

“Yes, I agreed, because the homeland is in danger,” Mr Kolomoisky, a prominent member and supporter of the country’s Jewish community, told the Financial Times.

 

It also emerged late on Saturday that Serhiy Taruta, a billionaire industrialist, had agreed to be governor of Donetsk in the far eastern region of the country. In an interview published in internet news site Delo.ua, he called upon citizens to unite against a potential Russian attack.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/sanctions-push-to-punish-russia-over-ukraine-gains-steam

Sanctions Push To Punish Russia Over Ukraine Gains Steam

 

Members of Congress are calling for economic sanctions on Russia similar to those levied against Iran as well as an expansion of the Magnitsky List in response to Russia’s invasion of the Crimea region of Ukraine.

 

Sen. Chris Murphy Saturday warned that it has become clear Russia’s incursion is “part of a broader strategy” to reassert Russia’s Cold War-era control of eastern Europe.

“We have to go eyes wide open into this,” Murphy said, adding that it now appears the United States will need to “level some clear economic sanctions” against Russia.

Murphy said he expects President Barack Obama will have to address the situation in Ukraine again in the coming days and hoped that he would “start to set a direction for what these consequences will be … it’s clear the Russians didn’t hear his message.” Obama addressed the situation on Friday, saying that there would be “costs” for a Russian invasion of Crimea but not specifying what the costs would be.

 

Sen. Bob Corker, the ranking member on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, also called for sanctions in a statement issued Saturday.

 

“The United States and our European allies should immediately bring to bear all elements of our collective economic strength to stop Russian advances in Ukraine,” Corker said. “Congress will consider targeted sanctions against Russian persons and entities that undermine the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine.”

But Murphy warned that the economic sanctions he’s proposing would likely have only a modest impact on Russia and its president, Vladmir Putin, and insisted Europe, not the United States, should lead the way.

“Our economic relationship with Russia is rather small compared to the Europeans … [so] the real question is whether we can build real support for those economic sanctions in Europe,” the Connecticut Democrat said.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/luciankim/relief-and-fear-in-a-divided-crimea

Relief And Fear In A Divided Crimea

 

Local people met Russia’s open military intervention into Crimea today with a mixture of relief, fear and confusion that reflected the wider contradictions splitting Ukraine.

In the Crimean capital Simferopol, where a newly established pro-Moscow government appealed to Vladimir Putin for security and financial guarantees, citizens expressed their gratitude to the Russian president.

“Putin is great. He’s our life-saver,” said a middle-aged entrepreneur who gave his name only as Oleg. He and his wife Anna were sipping take-away coffees and strolling through the city center, which had been closed to traffic since unknown gunmen seized government buildings on Thursday and hoisted Russian flags. The regional parliament chose a new government later that day.

The Muslim Tatar minority in Crimea, on the other hand, views the Soviet era with scorn. Dictator Joseph Stalin deported the Crimean Tatars to Central Asia during World War II because he didn’t trust them. They weren’t allowed to return home until the dying days of the Soviet Union 25 years ago and have since become loyal citizens of independent Ukraine.

“It’s not safe for you to be here,” an employee at the Crimean Tatar community’s headquarters told BuzzFeed. “Putin has declared war on us.”

Crimea’s new government is offering posts and financial aid to the Tatars in an attempt to ease ethnic tensions. The Crimean Tatars, who make up 14 percent of the peninsula’s population, support Ukraine’s integration into the European Union. Yanukovych’s abrupt refusal to sign an association agreement with the EU was the spark that set off the protests on Kiev’s Maidan square in November.

For the small but dedicated group of Crimeans who organized their own anti-government demonstrations in conservative Simferopol, the Russian intervention has come as a shock.

Nobody here doubts that they are Russian soldiers who use the bases of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, which is stationed in Crimea, as jumping-off points. Yet the new Crimean government still maintains the fiction that the men guarding their buildings are volunteer militiamen.

The real Crimean self-defense forces are over middle age and wear gym pants and camouflage jackets. One group stood guard across the street from the Crimean interior ministry next to an army field kitchen.

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/world/europe/ukraine-finds-its-forces-are-ill-equipped-to-take-crimea-back-from-russia.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes

Ukraine Finds Its Forces Are Ill Equipped to Take Crimea Back From Russia

 

The new government of Ukraine called an emergency session of its national security council on Saturday in the face of the Russian military’s seizure of Crimea, but the leaders are facing a grim reality: Their armed forces are ill equipped to try to reconquer the region militarily.

 

Crimea has always been a vital base for the Soviet and then Russian Navy, serving as the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet, which has controlled the waters off southern Russia since 1783. After a period of tension following Ukraine’s independence when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Russia got to keep its base in Crimea under its own control on a lease, extended until at least 2042 by the now-ousted president, Viktor F. Yanukovych.

 

But the Ukrainian military has only a token force in the autonomous region of Crimea — a lightly armed brigade of about 3,500 people, equipped with artillery and light weapons but none of the country’s advanced battle tanks, said Igor Sutyagin, a Russian military expert at the Royal United Services Institute in London. The forces also have only one air squadron of SU-27 fighters deployed at the air base near Belbek.

 

A senior NATO official said that Ukraine’s small naval fleet, which was originally part of the Black Sea Fleet, had been boxed in by Russian warships.

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/tanais_ua

Mykhailo Bolotskyh, ex-chief of State Emergency Service, military with experience in Yugoslavia, is new governor of Luhansk, east. Ukraine  

6:19 PM

[Burgold]

Deeply concerned about how things are shaping up.  I hope that this is mostly sabre rattling.  Russia needs to back out of this instead of escalating it.  From what I've been told they are worried about the EU deal mainly because they hate the idea of a NATO base that close and especially  defensive missile batteries that close.  They have been on the wrong side of so many things recently.  They need to get their fear and pride under control.

[zoony]

They speak Russian, they have economic ties to Russia, and they resent people from the Western region of Ukraine that speak Ukrainian and display nationalistic tendencies.According to Wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CrimeaAccording to the 2001 Ukrainian population census 58.5% of the population of Crimea were ethnic RussiansCrimea is that little dangling Florida-like thing at the bottom of Ukraine.

I know this... Still makes absolutely no sense.

Deeply concerned about how things are shaping up.  I hope that this is mostly sabre rattling.  Russia needs to back out of this instead of escalating it.  From what I've been told they are worried about the EU deal mainly because they hate the idea of a NATO base that close and especially  defensive missile batteries that close.  They have been on the wrong side of so many things recently.  They need to get their fear and pride under control.

Let Putin have Crimea. Those idiots deserve each other

[thebluefood]

So, if the Russians actually make a move on Ukraine, how is the EU going to react? Are we going to see some kind of coalition of European troops go into Ukraine and start doing battle with the Russians?