88Comrade2000 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Those of you who know more than I do...how do you think this will play out? Do you think it might escalate to the point where Russia invades or attempts to expand its territory? That's World War-provoking type of stuff isn't it? Who is askly going to go to war with Russia over this; so that it becomes a World War. We will protest, issue sanctions but I think the end result is that Ukraine splits into 2 different countries. Civil War though may happen before that ultimate conclusion is reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Who is askly going to go to war with Russia over this; so that it becomes a World War. We will protest, issue sanctions but I think the end result is that Ukraine splits into 2 different countries. Civil War though may happen before that ultimate conclusion is reached. Yeah, that makes sense...I just didn't know if this was step 1 of a larger land-grab by Russia. Believe me, I don't think we should be fighting battles across the globe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Yeah, that makes sense...I just didn't know if this was step 1 of a larger land-grab by Russia. Believe me, I don't think we should be fighting battles across the globe. Also, if we go World War- it would be nuclear. Won't be many of us around after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Also, if we go World War- it would be nuclear. Won't be many of us around after that. Yeah, I wasn't really claiming that this would start a world war as much as it kind of reminds me of how Germany got started in World War II. Didn't they annex a small, disputed territory and then get bolder and bolder. Whether this is an isolated event or the beginning of something with Russia, it's interesting. Also, even if it doesn't lead to a war (for very good reasons that you stated) isn't it something that could begin shifting the balance of power? Historically speaking, it's been no more than a blink of an eye since Russia was a pretty large empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Those of you who know more than I do...how do you think this will play out? Do you think it might escalate to the point where Russia invades or attempts to expand its territory? That's World War-provoking type of stuff isn't it? It would be if anybody had a treaty to secure Ukraine's teritorial integrity other than Russia. I don't think Europe or the United States are willing to go to war over Ukraine... We will saber rattle, but ultimately we will do nothing as Russia invades and annexs half their country. Just like Russia did during the last Olympics in Georgia, albet on a smaller scale. What's going to happen here is Russia will be taught a lesson in free market economics. US and Western Europe are going to be pissed. They are going to announce some sort of boycotts.... Look for private investment to dry up... Look for Russia's vastly improved economy to shrivel and die.... All Putin will be left with is his 70 billion he's already pilfered from the government coffers.. I think that's about as bad as it will get as Russia is appears to be about to invade and annex half of Ukraine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 It would be if anybody had a treaty to secure Ukraine's teritorial integrity other than Russia. I don't think Europe or the United States are willing to go to war over Ukraine... We will saber rattle, but ultimately we will do nothing as Russia invades and annexs half their country. Just like Russia did during the last Olympics in Georgia, albet on a smaller scale. What's going to happen here is Russia will be taught a lesson in free market economics. US and Western Europe are going to be pissed. They are going to announce some sort of boycotts.... Look for private investment to dry up... Look for Russia's vastly improved economy to shrivel and die.... All Putin will be left with is his 70 billion he's already pilfered from the government coffers.. I think that's about as bad as it will get as Russia is appears to be about to invade and annex half of Ukraine... Is that when Putin pushes the button and Russia becomes the CCCP again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Yeah, I wasn't really claiming that this would start a world war as much as it kind of reminds me of how Germany got started in World War II. Didn't they annex a small, disputed territory and then get bolder and bolder. It's exactly how WWII got started Hitler invading countries on the auspicious of protecting native German speaking minorities from the pursecution of the local governments.... Poland, and then Czechoslovakia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Is that when Putin pushes the button and Russia becomes the CCCP again? What Putin is going to learn is Russia can never become the CCCP again. The Soviet Union had this massive inefficient and expensive to maintain industrial infrastructure which allowed it to survive autonomously from the rest of the world economically. The Soviets could do something screwed up like invade Czechoslovakia, Hungary, or Afghanistan and there was very little we could do to them... I remember when they shot down flight 007 out of Japan and restaurant owners in the capital area were dumping their Stoli into the streets in a sign of protest.. Can you imagine... ( Clydes actually purchased the State of Virginia's entire Stoli consignment and for a few years during our boycott of the Soviet Union the only place one could get a Stoli Martini was at Clydes in this area ).... That infrastructure is gone now. Russia can't feed itself, can't cloth itself, can't provide electricity for itself, can't refine enough fuel for itself, they don't even have the financial muscles to develop themselves. Modern Russia isn't an industrial power like the Soviet Union was.. Modern Russia has been streamlined with a commodities based economy geared towards selling raw materials to the rest of the world. The West owns a lot of that raw material production capacity inside of Russia too. Modern Russia is very good at supplying raw materials too as their economic future looks fairly bright. Problem is when trade dries up, Russia dries up. Russia is as integrated into the west economically as any other country in the west is. They can be subject to economic annihilation for bad behavior like this. They faced a little of that after Georgia... Russia had to close down trading on their stock market after they invaded Georgia due to all the foreign investment fleeing it's shores. Ukraine isn't Georgia.. I don't see the west or the US forgetting about this anytime soon if Russia does decide to invade. Still their is a whole nother train of thought here. There are some people who believe Russia is within her rights here. The United States has the Monroe Doctrine... We wouldn't look kindly and haven't when outside powers tried to establish bases of interest in our hemisphere. This school of thought says why poke the bear? Would we do anything differently if we were Russia? Ukraine is a country which for 500 years was part of Russia. Half the country natively speaks Russian. Should we really get involved? Why pick this fight? Why bother when Russia's behavior is understandable here. Anyway I've heard that argument.. I think Putin is a tin horn dictator who does see himself as some sort of Soviet leader... In competition with the west. He's wrong.. The west won the competition... Putin for all real purposes is part of the west now... Only that's not how Putin sees it. I think Putin's thinking here is dangerous. I think we should teach him a lesson and force him into the 21st century... Waiting another 20 years until he perhaps goes away I think is dangerous... He's going to cause a lot of havoc in those 20 years.. I think we should have cracked down on him when he started to steal elections.. Certainly we'll get off our duffs when he invades a country the size of Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 I'm still somewhat new to a lot of the history involved in the region, but I saw some mention earlier of a "Budapest" agreement where the US, UK, and Russia signed something saying there would be no actions taken by any of them to militarily or economically interfere with the territorial integrity of the Ukraine. I wonder if Russia even needs to interfere openly though, with the former president doing his thing and pro-Russia militants running around in the Crimean Parliament and blocking roads all over the place. I'm not sure what happens if the Crimea decides to vote for independence (more than their current semi-autonomy) or to join Russia in the May referendum that's going to be taking place the same day as the presidential election now. On the other hand reports seem to indicate that despite leanings in that direction by the new Crimean pm and others, only about 42% or so are in favor of joining Russia, with over 50% against it. So if they do end up somehow joining Russia it will be pretty sketchy. We also have to see how the Tatars (and other locals who have been around longer than the Russians) react to all this, since they were protesting significantly a day or two ago, but seem to have decided to hold back for the time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I'm still somewhat new to a lot of the history involved in the region, but I saw some mention earlier of a "Budapest" agreement where the US, UK, and Russia signed something saying there would be no actions taken by any of them to militarily or economically interfere with the territorial integrity of the Ukraine. Yeah it's not the Budapest agreement, or the Budapest treaty, It's the Budapest memorandum. Ukraine didn't get guarantees. Ukraine got "assurances". I don't think that's a signed agreement even, it's more of a joint press conference from 1994. Yeltsin made that assurance, in order to get the Ukraine to divest themselves from nuclear weapons. I doubt Putin is bound by assurances he's given much less those Yeltsin gave 20 years ago. We aren't going to go to war over Ukraine.. I'll tell you that right now... Russia might however, if it means not loosing Ukraine to EU membership. On the other hand reports seem to indicate that despite leanings in that direction by the new Crimean pm and others, only about 42% or so are in favor of joining Russia, with over 50% against it. So if they do end up somehow joining Russia it will be pretty sketchy. That public opinion poll will change dramatically the moment the new government decides to move forward with the EU membership; which is what sparked these troubles in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Yeah I doubt we'd go to war over Ukraine...though we can help make it very costly for them. (I do wonder how far Russia could go though, if they really, really wanted to start expanding and taking over other countries, before the international community would be forced to step it) Hmmm, looking over more reports on the May referendum in the Crimean, it's unclear if it does ask for independence and/or joining Russia, or is just a question whether or not to reaffirm their current status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Yeah I doubt we'd go to war over Ukraine...though we can help make it very costly for them. (I do wonder how far Russia could go though, if they really, really wanted to start expanding and taking over other countries, before the international community would be forced to step it) I suspect it depends on how "Russian" that country is. If the Ukraine splits, and the southeast third that is majority Russian goes to Russia, we aren't going to do diddlesquat. Frankly, it probably would be better for the stability of Ukraine in the long run is that were to happen quickly and cleanly. Same thing with Belarus, which is very similar to the Ukraine. Now if Russia was trying to expand to take over, say, Poland or any other member of Nato... things would be very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 There really hasn't been much apparent interest in going over to Russia outside the Crimea in Ukraine. The East has been fairly supportive of the rest of Ukraine and there's been some measures of unity (like language swapping) by both sides of recent. Even in the Crimea only around half or less that support merging with Russia and the rest are very much opposed to it. http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/white-house-yanukovych-no-longer-president-of-ukraine-337829.html White House: Yanukovych no longer president of Ukraine Washington – The White House no longer views Viktor Yanukovych as the president of Ukraine, White House press secretary Jay Carney said at a press conference on Thursday. Yanukovych "abdicated his responsibility", Carney said. According to him, the White House welcomes the endorsement of a new government by the Ukrainian parliament. In addition, he said that Washington was closely watching Russia's military drills and called on Moscow to refrain from provocative actions against Ukraine. http://bigstory.ap.org/article/maidan-heroes-get-key-posts-new-ukraine-cabinet Maidan heroes get key posts in new Ukraine cabinet One month ago, kidnappers pulled Dmytro Bulatov from anti-government protests, beat him and cut off a piece of his ear. On Thursday, he became his nation's new youth minister. The protesters' chief medic is health minister. The master of ceremonies is culture minister. Top figures in Ukraine's three-month protest are taking up powerful posts in the new Cabinet, underscoring the powerful and unpredictable force of the revolt. But while few doubt the leaders' resolve, the nominations have raised questions about their skills and expertise — especially given the enormous challenges the new government faces. For many of these leaders, the government posts represent a political and personal victory. But they also present an enormous responsibility as the nation seeks to heal and rebuild after over 80 people were killed in the protests. Bulatov's kidnapping in January shocked Ukrainians and added further energy to the protests. It helped to turn demonstrations calling for closer ties with the West into a broader movement for human rights and the ouster of President Viktor Yanukvoych. Bulatov, 35, a leader of a group of angry motorists, spent more than a week in captivity. He said he was beaten and nailed to a door, and that he begged his attackers to kill him to spare him of the pain. On Thursday, parliament voted to approve Bulatov as sports and youth minister. http://www.cnbc.com/id/101451132 'Risk off' in markets as Ukraine tensions heighten Tensions in Ukraine and muscle flexing by Russia accentuated risk aversion in global markets on Thursday, with investors once again rushing for safe havens. European markets were firmly "risk off" on Thursday, closing lower. Investors instead opted for safe havens like sovereign bonds and the U.S. dollar. The yield on the 10-year benchmark German bund has fallen to 1.563 percent this week from 1.688 percent. The greenback held near a two-week high against a basket of major currencies on Thursday, weighing on commodities such as oil. Wall Street opened higher and U.S. Treasury yields also ticked lower. "A lot of it is risk aversion… the Ukraine crisis, and the risk of this spinning into a wider contagion over other emerging markets and particularly Russia," Brendan Brown, head of research at Mitsubishi UFJ Securities told CNBC Thursday. "The contagion would go from a sharp decline in the Russian rouble and concern about Russian banks, leading to German interdependence and other exposures to Russia and that would be the channel." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFromYellowstone Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Worst case scenario, say Russia invades and annexes all of Ukraine (strictly hypothetically). Does the United States do anything outside of sanctions? Is military action at all possible? The reason I ask is it seems like military strikes under this administration seem extremely improbable. What would have to happen to cross President Obama's "red line" so to speak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 It would be difficult for Russia to pull a Georgia on Ukraine. Georgia: 26,911 sq mi, 5 million ppl Ukraine: 233,062 sq mi, 45 million ppl Looks like Crimea is the next candidate for action... they accepted the riot police who shot people in Kiev (Berkut), and pro-Russian activists captured some government buildings. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/crimean-city-offers-refuge-to-police-who-battled-protesters-in-ukraine-capital/2014/02/26/ad105a78-9ec3-11e3-9ba6-800d1192d08b_story.html Gunmen’s seizure of parliament building stokes tensions in Ukraine’s CrimeaSEVASTOPOL, Ukraine — With unrest growing in the Crimea over Ukraine’s political transformation, a group of armed men seized the local parliament and the regional government headquarters in Simferopol early Thursday morning, barricaded themselves inside both buildings and raised Russian flags, news services reported. They were reported to be wearing plain uniforms without designating marks. The Interfax news agency quoted a local authority as saying the men were from a Crimean self-defense group. ... I'm sure some of those activists work for Russian secret services... (imho Western secret serivices were involved in the opposition also, but I am not sure to what degree). Unfortunate part is that Russia can now raise tensions at will by acting in Crimea dangerous situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 So apparently some gunmen occupied the Simferopol airport for a time, after going there in reponse to rumors that Ukrainian paratroopers had landed there and left after realizing they were wrong. http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-10-armed-separatists-and-yanukovych-are-defiant/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFromYellowstone Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Unfortunate part is that Russia can now raise tensions at will by acting in Crimea dangerous situation. The fact that their Black Sea Fleet is located there even after the breakup of the USSR sure makes things difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 Very confusing situation in the Crimea now. Unclear if these are Russian troops, or pro-Russia militias. http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/ukraine-accuses-russia-invasion-over-airport-blockade-n40851 Ukraine Accuses Russia of 'Invasion' Over Airport Blockade Ukraine's interior minister accused Moscow's military of blockading an airport near a Russian naval base on Friday and armed men took control of another airport in Ukraine's Crimean capital of Simferopol. In a Facebook post, Arsen Avakov called the seizure of the Belbek international airport in the Black Sea port of Sevastopol a "military invasion and occupation." He added: "It is a breach of all international agreements and norms." The Interfax news agency quoted Russian military sources as saying the incident at Belbek airport was intended to stop "fighters" flying in. However, Interfax later quoted a Russian official as saying that no units had approached the airport or blockaded it. NBC News was unable to independently verify either account. A eyewitness told Reuters that the men, dressed in military gear and carrying assault rifles, were roving freely in an out of the control tower. A man called Vladimir, who said he was a volunteer helping the group, said: "I'm with the People's Militia of Crimea. We're here at the airport to maintain order. We'll meet the planes with a nice smile - the airport is working as normal." Russian news website Lifenews (link in Russian) reported that the armed men were seeking to prevent "radical Ukrainians" from arriving at the airport. http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/avakov-says-two-crimean-airports-taken-over-by-russian-army-337863.html Avakov says two Crimean airports taken over by Russian army Two Crimean airports were taken over by Russian military troops, Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said on Facebook this morning. He said the situation in the autonomous republic has now escalated to “a military intervention” and called on the National Security Council to take urgent steps towards its regulation. “My assessment of what's going on is that it's a military intervention and occupation in violation of all international agreements and norms,” he said in his statement. “This is a direct provocation of bloodshed on the territory of a sovereign state.” Avakov said that Sevastopol's military airport Bilbek at night was blocked off by the military units of the Russian navy, which is based in Sevastopol. He said the airport is surrounded by camouflaged military troops with no identification and carrying guns. He said they do not hide their Russian affiliation. Inside the airport there is a group of Ukrainian soldiers and border guards, and Ukrainian police troops have surrounded the outer perimeter of the airport. “There have been no armed clashes so far,” he said. https://twitter.com/McFaul (US ambassador to Russia) For years I have heard Russian govt officials, including VVP, emphasize the respect for sovereignty as the most important international norm 7:43 PM https://twitter.com/bishopk A Just Russia party to submit bill to Russian Duma to introduce fast-track procedure for admission of new territories to Russian Fed - TV 24 3:47 AM https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR Rada's resolution on Crimea calls on parties of Budapest memorandum to reconfirm its commitments, start consultations. Rada.tv |PR News 3:55 AM Rada's resolution on Crimea incl. call on UN Security Council to monitor Crimea situation, OSCE & Council of Europe to monitor HR situation 3:57 AM Rada's resolution to address parties of Budapest memorandum on Crimea situation was voted for & adopted. Rada.tv |PR News 4:00 AM http://m.thelocal.se//20140228/ukrainian-pms-kamikaze-mission-not-hopeless-sweden 'Crimea is a question for Nato': Swedish FM Ann Törnkvist | 28 Feb 2014, 09:26 As pro-Russian forces took action in the Crimea, Sweden's foreign minister has said the EU, Nato and the IMF must help Ukraine through its political turmoil. "Crimea is a question for Nato," Bildt told Sveriges Radio. "Of course I am worried, but I am more worried about the financial situation and the corruption." Following reports of Russian military blocking access to Sevastopol airport in the Ukrainian region of Crimea, Bildt tweeted that the news organization Russia Today had published quite a level-headed analysis of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 There really hasn't been much apparent interest in going over to Russia outside the Crimea in Ukraine. The East has been fairly supportive of the rest of Ukraine and there's been some measures of unity (like language swapping) by both sides of recent. Even in the Crimea only around half or less that support merging with Russia and the rest are very much opposed to it. I don't think Hitler moved into Poland or Czechoslovakia to actually protect the German speaking minority. I don't think Putin cares one wink about the Russian speaking minority in Ukraine. That will just be his excuse to move, if he decides to move. And the first step in moving would be seizing the airports... so it looks like Putin has decided to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Worst case scenario, say Russia invades and annexes all of Ukraine (strictly hypothetically). Does the United States do anything outside of sanctions? Is military action at all possible? The reason I ask is it seems like military strikes under this administration seem extremely improbable. What would have to happen to cross President Obama's "red line" so to speak? Why would we ever want to go to war to defend Ukraine? What vital interest of the United States would be served by defending Ukraine? You thought Iraq was bad!! 10 years, hundreds of thousands dead... Ukraine would be orders of magnitude worse, and talk about an occupation problem... We want no part of that mess. It's not like after we fight there for 10, 20, 30 years Russia isn't going to be on their boarders.. And it's not like after 100 years after we were successful if we had the will to be successful in a knife fight with Russia on her boarders, every Russian wouldn't still be thinking in a just world they would still own Ukraine.... It's also not like Ukraine joined NATO or the EU in the 20 years they've been removed from Russia. I think rhetoric, boycotts, and economic sanctions are the way to go on this one. The only thing that would change my opinion on that is if France or the UK were going to champion this. If they were to get involved I could see getting involved to support our allies... But France and the UK would need to risk an existencial war to defend Ukraine, and I think they are even less likely to do so than we are. It would be difficult for Russia to pull a Georgia on Ukraine. Georgia: 26,911 sq mi, 5 million ppl Ukraine: 233,062 sq mi, 45 million ppl It really wouldn't be. It's not like Russia hasn't done this sort of thing before across eastern Europe. They occupied Ukraine for 500 years up until what 15-17 years ago. The fact that Russia shares a common boarder with Ukraine means Russia could place and support as many troops into Ukraine as she needs to get the job done. The fact that we don't have a common boarder means our challenge of defending Ukraine if we choose to do so would be orders of magnitude more difficult than Russia's job in attacking it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 The fact that their Black Sea Fleet is located there even after the breakup of the USSR sure makes things difficult Why do you think so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Ask yourself, If Texas decided to secede from the union and the US intervened militarily to prevent the secession, would it really be prudent for Russia to send troops to Texas to fight for their independence? The answer is "hell ****ing no!". Ukraine is either gonna handle this themselves with a little help from the EU or it's not gonna get handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/ukraine-pleads-for-help-against-russian-invasion-of-crimea Ukraine Pleads For Help Against “Russian Invasion” Of Crimea Ukraine appealed to Western powers and the United Nations to help resolve the spiraling crisis in Crimea after unidentified armed men seized two airports and Russian troops were spotted making ominous movements around the peninsula. Even as Ukraine’s ousted, pro-Russian president called for investigations of his ouster in a press conference from a southern Russian city, Ukraine’s parliament asked the United Nations Security Council to hold a special session on the situation in Crimea and appealed to the U.S., Britain, and Russia to uphold a 1994 agreement to guarantee the country’s territorial integrity. Acting President Olexander Turchynov, who is also the speaker of parliament, presided over an emergency security council meeting as reports trickled in of Russian troop movements. http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/yanukovych-to-ukrainians-from-russian-exile-stop-this-im-sti Yanukovych To Ukrainians From Russian Exile: Stop This, I’m Still The President Ukraine’s ousted president Viktor Yanukovych made his first appearance Friday since fleeing Kiev a week ago, imploring Ukrainians that he was still the country’s president despite his forced exile in the southern Russian city of Rostov-na-Donu. Visibly shaken but unable to contain his trademark grin, Yanukovych gave a rambling and bizarre press conference that made it seem as he was still living in a parallel world, where violent clashes between protesters and riot police had not left dozens dead and caused his own allies in government and the security services to abandon him. Speaking in Russian for over an hour, Yanukovych insisted that he was still the president and said Ukraine’s new government was illegitimate. “Nobody overthrew me,” Yanukovych said, claiming he was forced to flee Kiev under threat from Western-backed far-right extremists who threatened him and his family. “I intend to fight for the future of Ukraine against those who are attempting to saddle it with fear and terror,” he said. Asked why he was in Rostov, where he arrived early this morning accompanied by a squadron of fighter jets, Yanukovych said he had come because an “old friend” lived nearby, though he declined to say who it was. Though Russian President Vladimir Putin maintains several residences in southern Russia, he is evidently not one of them. Yanukovych said he had spoken to Putin — who is known to despise him and once kept him waiting for four hours — by telephone when he arrived in Russia and assumed the two would meet when Putin “had the possibility of doing so.” Visibly affronted by Putin’s week-long silence on his overthrowal, Yanukovych at times sounded like a spurned boyfriend in denial after a bad breakup. “As soon as we meet, I’ll understand what he thinks and we’ll probably have a discussion about what happened,” Yanukovych said. Yanukovych added that he did not think Russia could remain indifferent to the fate of Ukraine and implored the Kremlin to say something. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-call-with-president-putin-february-2014 The Prime Minister called President Putin to discuss the situation in Ukraine. Following the call, a Downing Street spokesperson said: The Prime Minister called President Putin today to discuss the situation in Ukraine, particularly the escalating tensions in Crimea. The Prime Minister emphasised that all countries should respect the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine. President Putin agreed, stressing that Russian military exercises in the area had been planned before the current situation in Ukraine. The 2 leaders discussed how the international community could support Ukraine on the path to stability. They agreed that the free and fair elections that the interim government has pledged to hold are the best way to secure a positive future for Ukraine in which all Ukrainian people are represented. A future that would not involve forcing the Ukrainian people to make a choice between Europe and Russia. They agreed the international community should also consider how to help the interim government tackle the economic situation. They plan to keep in touch on the issue. http://www.aa.com.tr/en/u/294898--crimean-tatars-may-25-referendum-unacceptable Crimean Tatars: May 25 referendum unacceptable After armed men seized control of two government buildings in Crimean capital, Simferopol on Thursday, a new pro-Russian leader was instated, a move which was immediately rejected by the minority Muslim Crimea Tatars on the basis that it violates the Ukranian constitution. Crimean Tartars, who make up 13 percent of the Crimea population, are also against a decision voted on by the Parliament on Thursday, to hold a referendum on May 25 to decide the future of Crimea's status. They argue that the decision was made under duress, when the armed and masked men surrounded the parliament and forced the decision, which will benefit the Russian majority. The vote was supported by 61 out of 64 MPs in the parliament. A Crimean Tatar who lives in Turkey and is president of a foundation representing Tartars in Turkey, Zafer Karatay, says that the proposed constitution violates the rights of Tartars, is against international law and the Ukraine constitution. "Everyone kept away from the parliament building, and Konstantinov forced MPs to vote for the favor of referendum." Karatay said. http://www.rferl.org/contentlive/clashes-in-ukraine-live-blog-kyiv/25267783.html Here's another update from our newsdesk on the airport situation in Crimea: The head of Ukraine's Security Council says two airports in Crimea are now under Ukrainian control, despite attempts by armed men to seize them on February 28. Ukraine’s new authorities have accused Russia over what they called an armed "invasion" by military forces of airports in the Crimean capital, Simferopol, and near Sevastopol, where Russia's Black Sea Fleet is based. Pro-Russian forces were also seen around other Crimean facilities on February 28. A spokesman for Russia's Black Sea Fleet said any troop movements were in accordance with its basing treaty with Ukraine. Ukraine's new authorities have called for a UN Security Council meeting to discuss the situation. European Union officials have called on all sides to prevent escalation. (Reuters,AP,AFP) https://twitter.com/CharlieKayeCBS BREAKING. SecState Kerry says FM Lavrov reaffirmed today that Pres Putin does not intend to violate the sovereignty of Ukraine. 11:06 AM https://twitter.com/skymarkwhite BREAKING - UK Foreign office alert warns against all travel to Crimea - British nationals already there should leave by commercial means 11:36 AM https://twitter.com/bishopk "They have weapons & say that they are from the Black Sea Fleet" Stepan Hulevatyy, Head of Crimean TV on men who've taken over his channel 11:44 AM https://twitter.com/BoothWilliam Armored personnel carriers spotted near Sevastopol. Troops said they were Russian federation from Krasnodar pic.twitter.com/cI13HjOJ6n 11:33 AM https://twitter.com/petersbeaumont I think we can drop the unidentified armed men. APCs have Russian insignia/ helis seems to be M128 Russian Havoc anti-armour aircraft 12:00 PM It's somewhat amazing the speed at which this is all happening and ability of Russia to confuse the hell out of everyone as to how much involvement they have in this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 It's exactly how WWII got started Hitler invading countries on the auspicious of protecting native German speaking minorities from the pursecution of the local governments.... Poland, and then Czechoslovakia... Your history is as bad as ever. Poland and then Czechoslovakia??? Anyone think Obama will fly to Munich and meet Putin to defuse the situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 http://www.stripes.com/news/europe/crimean-tatars-deported-by-stalin-rally-against-russia-1.270448?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter Crimean Tatars deported by Stalin rally against Russia "Where are the separatists?" demanded the Crimean Tatar protester as he stamped his wooden stick on the ground after bursting into the region's parliament. As calls from the Russian majority in the southern Ukrainian region of Crimea for incorporation into Russia grow louder, the Muslim Tatar minority is growing militant too. Deported from Crimea in 1944 by Soviet leader Josef Stalin, with almost half dying from hunger, thirst and disease, the Tatars support the pro-European opposition that toppled Kremlin- backed President Viktor Yanukovych after three months of protests. Their opposition to Russia is already sparking ethnic conflict, giving Russian President Vladimir Putin an opportunity to play the Crimean secessionist card. "The Ukrainian people paid with their blood to get rid of one dictator," said Nebi Sadlaev, 60, another protester. "We don't one another one." The demonstrator with the stick, who had a Ukrainian flag wrapped around himself, rushed up the stairs to the assembly chamber. http://euromaidanpr.wordpress.com/2014/02/28/the-russians-of-ukraine-asked-putin-not-to-bring-the-troops/ The Russians of Ukraine asked Putin not to bring in troops Signatures on a petition addressed to Volodymyr Putin on behalf of the Russians and the Russian-speaking citizens of Ukraine are being collected on the Internet. People are calling to not bring troops into Crimea. “We, the ethnic Russians and Russian-speaking citizens of Ukraine, do not need any protection by other states. We thank you for your support, however, we want to inform you that we have never been prejudiced in any way by anyone in the territory of Ukraine. We have always lived freely and happily, speaking our usual language. We have also studied the state languge of Ukraine in schools and are able to speak it well enough to feel comfortable in a Ukrainophonic environment. That is why, with all due respect to your worries, we ask you to not raise internal questions of our country that are by no means critical at the national level of the Russian Federation. And moreover, we ask you not to bring in troops to regulate a conflict that you apparently see, but we fail to notice. Thank you for your understanding. RESPECTFULLY, THE RUSSIAN AND RUSSIAN-SPEAKING CITIZENS OF UKRAINE,” says the petition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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