visionary Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Thought the Ukraine situation deserved it's own thread...at least for now. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26280710 Ukraine sanctions imposed amid Kiev clashes European Union foreign ministers have agreed to impose sanctions on Ukrainian officials "responsible for violence and excessive force". In a statement, they said targeted sanctions including asset freezes and visa bans would be introduced "as a matter of urgency". http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/20/us-ukraine-idUSBREA1G0OU20140220 EU seeks peace as Ukraine death toll hits 75 European Union ministers sought to broker a political settlement in Ukraine after gun battles between police and anti-government protesters brought the death toll to 75 in two days of the worst violence in the country since Soviet times. Three hours of fierce fighting in Kiev's Independence Square, which was recaptured by the protesters, left the bodies of over 20 civilians strewn on the ground, a short distance from where President Viktor Yanukovich was meeting the EU delegation. The ministers, from Germany, France and Poland, embarked on "a night of difficult negotiations" with Yanukovich and the opposition, said EU officials who hoped a plan for an interim government and early elections could bring peace. France's foreign minister said there was still no agreement over a proposed road map to ease the crisis, which erupted in November after Yanukovich abandoned a proposed trade deal with the European Union and turned instead towards Moscow. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/02/20/ukraines-parliament-just-threw-president-yanukovych-under-the-bus-thats-great-news/ Ukraine’s parliament just threw President Yanukovych under the bus. That’s great news. Late Thursday, Ukraine's parliament voted to approve a resolution that calls for the country's security services to pull back and end their crackdown on ongoing protests. The resolution states an end to the "anti-terrorist" operation against protesters and orders a release of all imprisoned protesters, as well as similar measures. The degree to which Ukraine's security services do or do not obey this resolution is not actually the most important thing here. What makes this a really big deal is that the parliament is actually as well as symbolically undermining President Viktor Yanukovych – challenging both his handling of the protests as well as the president himself. It's a very significantly symbolic blow to Yanukovych's legitimacy. This also goes a long way toward reducing the odds that Ukraine's military would intervene on Yanukovych's behalf, which was a serious concern. It reduces the odds of an outside Russian intervention as well, given how difficult it would be to maintain the fiction of intervening the protect Ukrainian democracy from "insurgents." (One caveat: It's not clear whether there were enough legislators present to meet a quorum, although some Ukraine-watchers say it was; 236 out of 442 seats.) And it even delegitimizes Yanukovych within his own party. Of the lawmakers who voted for the resolution undercutting him, 34 were from his own party. So it will be tougher for him to claim popular legitimacy even from his own political movement. A good resource for news and updates on Ukraine: http://www.interpretermag.com/category/blog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Again, not our problem. Let the Ukrainians; handle it themselves. Actually, I think Putin will send in Russian tanks after the Olympics to help his puppet crush the protests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I am originally from Ukraine This is surreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/21/us-ukraine-idUSBREA1G0OU20140221 Violence flares as Ukraine politicians weigh deal Violence flared again in Kiev on Friday as Ukraine's opposition politicians pondered a draft deal with Russian-backed President Viktor Yanukovich which EU foreign ministers brokered to resolve the country's political crisis. After visiting European Union foreign ministers suspended talks at dawn, the presidential press service said an agreement with the opposition would be signed at noon (1000 GMT) but gave no details. Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, whose foreign minister is one of the mediators, cautioned that there was only a tentative accord so far. "The agreement has not yet been reached. What's been settled is the agreement's draft," Tusk told reporters in Warsaw. French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius, who was involved in the mediation effort earlier in the night, said the opposition needed to consult. "The opposition wants to consult with some of its members, which is entirely understandable," he told Europe 1 radio. "In this sort of situation, as long as things haven't really been wrapped up, it's important to remain very cautious." https://twitter.com/MaximEristavi Leaked details of Ukraine's peace deal: ✔powers to Parl via revival of 2004 Const in 48hrs ✔new govt in 10 days ✔pres elections in 10months 3:16 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The images are extrordinary. Not sure what can or should be done. The government can't stand by idly while Kiev is set on fire. The protestors have legitimate gripes. Horrible situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Reports that early elections are being called - though there is no response yet from the opposition to this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26289318 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Have you guys seen the video of snipers on top of a hill taking people out on the street? scary stuff man. dont' wanna post link cuz its definitely not safe for work, but its out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGoonie55 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I am originally from Ukraine This is surreal. I hope there is a swift and safe ending to this, my friend. Best wishes and thoughts for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The images are extrordinary. Not sure what can or should be done. The government can't stand by idly while Kiev is set on fire. The protestors have legitimate gripes. Horrible situation. Ukraine's president, opposition leaders sign deal aimed at ending months of political crisis - @BBCBreaking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Sad to think this country/region was once called the breadbasket of Eastern Europe. Most of the best agriculturalists fled to Canada and the northern US after the communist takeover. I guess there are some political catastrophes from which countries never recover, communist revolutions being at the top of that list. (Hell, Czechoslovakia was the 4th wealthiest nation in Europe before WWII.) The current Ukrainian images look almost Ceausescu-ish. Ironically, the pro-EU/anti Russian stance the protestors are demanding that their govt take may be crippling economically in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 So the opposition leaders signed the deal, but the people in the street are unwilling to accept anything less than the president's resignation so far. But just in the last few minutes or so the parliament (with the help of more defecting members from the president's party) agreed to financially compensate victims of the violence, fire the interior minister, and set into place laws which allow the release of jailed opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko. (and I don't think they're done yet). http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/2/21/ukraine-presidentannouncesearlyelectionsplansfornewgovernment.html Ukraine president, opposition agree to early elections, new government Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich has signed a deal with the country’s opposition to hold presidential elections early, form a national unity government and make constitutional changes reducing his powers, according to a copy of the agreement obtained by Al Jazeera. Constitutional reform will begin immediately with an end goal of finalizing the new constitution by September, but for the time being Ukraine will restore its 2004 constitution. Presidential elections will be held as soon as the new constitution is adopted, no later than December 2014. In a related move on Friday, Ukraine's parliament voted to allow the release of imprisoned opposition figure and former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko, who was jailed in 2011 on controversial abuse of power charges. http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/ukraine-president-backs-down-signs-peace-pact-protesters-n35171 The agreement was signed by the three main opposition leaders, including former boxing star Vitali Klitschko. However, it was almost immediately rejected by the extremist Right Sector party, which has been blamed for much of the civilian violence since protests in Kiev's Independence Square began in November. "We are inclined to consider Yanukovych’s statement as another whitewash," Right Sector said in a statement. "National revolution continues." But photographs of the document showed that the signature of Vladimir Lukin, special envoy of Russian President Vladimir Putin, was missing. Reuters confirmed that Lukin did not sign the deal and said there was no immediate explanation for his absence. One of the European foreign ministers who helped broker the deal, Poland's Radosław Sikorski, said the agreement was a "good compromise." Sikorski was earlier filmed by Britain's ITV News telling an opposition leader: "If you don't support this [deal] you'll have martial law, you'll have the army. You will all be dead." http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-feb-21-live-updates-337287.html Parliament votes to suspend Interior Minister Vitaliy Zakharchenko Feb. 21, 6:20 p.m. -- In another unanimous vote today, 332 members of the 450-seat parliament voted to insist on the suspension of the nation's top cop, Vitaliy Zakharchenko, as part of a political compromise. Zakharchenko is blamed for the violent police crackdowns on protesters that have killed nearly 100 people and injured thousands since November. -- Brian Bonner Several Party of Regions lawmakers leave the party 6:48 p.m. Tens of lawmakers from President Viktor Yanukovych's ruling Party of Regions left the faction on Feb. 21, signaling that the presient was loosing his grip on power and influence over those once loyal to him. At least 28 Party of Regions members of parliament were reported to have left the faction, according to Interfax-Ukraine news agency. -- Christopher J. Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-4-yanukovych-teeters/#2123 1912 GMT: As we’ve been saying, none of the opposition politicians necessarily has control over the crowds. The Euromaidan protests started without leaders, and the crowd is torn on whether it supports these politicians. That makes negotiating a settlement hard, however. Here’s more context on the vow to remove Yanukovych from power by 10 AM: If a few protesters turn to violence, does the deal collapse? If many of them do, will it? Meanwhile, with police standing down across the country (but, of course, not everywhere), Yanukovych’s physical and political power base is weakened. If he calls his police back to put down Maidan, there be enough of them? Follow up question – will we finally see a full-scale military deployment instead? For now there is a truce in Ukraine, but it is already proving to be an extremely fragile truce. The wild card is the Rada, which continues to pass legislation to hammer away at Yanukovych’s power. In fact, their efforts may be the best hope yet of a peaceful solution. 1945 GMT: A defeated-looking Vitali Klitschko (ex-boxer and a current opposition leader) just spoke to the crowds in Maidan. They booed him, and yelled cat calls when he paused. At one point, he looked like he was ready to cry, and his body language as ke walked off the stage was even more defeated than when he was on it. We don’t have a transcript, but the general sense is that he even apologized for doing things like shaking Yanukovych’s hand. Yet nothing he did could win him the crowd. 2126 GMT: Now there is a media report that Yanukovych has fled Kiev and has moved to Ukraine’s second largest city, Kharkiv. Here is a summary: Yanukovych, Rybak, Kluyev and Novinsky have flown off to Kharkiv – Media Viktor Yanukovych, along with a small number of trusted guards, flew off to Kharkiv at 22:40 A source told ZN.UA to a senior source in the presidential administration, reports Tsenzor.NET. https://twitter.com/MaximEristavi Multiply reports of Yanukovych fleeing to Kharkiv. His personal belongings are being evacuated from suburb residence, @glavcom says 4:53 PM 16 Lenin monuments went down just today all around Ukraine via @ukrpravda_news pic.twitter.com/cTKebypw2G 4:59 PM Yanukovych's reported asylum, Kharkiv is engulfed by surprising mass anti-govt demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s72NLnabzcY&feature=youtu.be Good luck w/ that, Mr. Pres 5:05 PM http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-4-yanukovych-teeters/ 2204 GMT: More information from ZN.UA, one of the two Ukrainian news agencies reporting that Yanukovych has fled Kiev: The source also stressed to ZN.UA that Yanukovych doubts the viability of the adoption of the law on the restoration of the 2004 constitution today by the Verkhovnaya Rada…. Let us recall that in Kharkiv on Saturday, February 22, a Congress of the deputies of all levels of the southeastern oblasts of Sevastopol and the Crimea [will be held]. https://twitter.com/RosieGray senior US official confirms that Yanukovych has gone to Kharkiv. says it's for "some kind of meeting that's taking place out there" 5:12 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Bank on it, if the protesters don't go away; Putin will send in Russian troops. Sochi is almost over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Western part of Ukraine is more nationalistic and historically speaks Ukrainan. The Eastern part is typically more connected to Russia, speaks Russian, historically, and has heavy industry. From what I understand young people typically have pro-european sentiments. In terms of economics, going with Russia provides short term benefits. Going with Europe means hard times, economically, but with long term prospects of freedom and free markets. Going with Russia is going with USSR power structures in place, KGB, etc.. Also note this is not a good guys against bad guys. There are criminals, far right nationalists, etc., in the opposition, alongside european-minded moderates. There are people who want to live their lives in peace but see alingment with Russia as the way to ensure that Ukraine's economy does not collapse. Ukraine depends on Russia for a lot of things, and economic support from the Western world is not on the table. It's a tough choice and a difficult, complex situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I love seeing the witness of these priests who stood on the battle lines calling for peace and prayer instead of violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Putin seeks to bring back the old Soviet Union, or at least as much of it as he can. I don't see him willingly letting Ukraine align itself with the EU. Sorry for those with ties to the Ukraine but this is about to get ugly there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 What's interesting is that there's reportedly been huge protests against the president tonight in areas that ought to be his safety net. Russia would have to be crazy to send troops into Ukraine the way things are going. I doubt they want another Afghanistan or even a Grozny on their hands. I could see them pressuring the Ukrainian president to crush the opposition, but I'm not sure he can on his own anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 From the latest reports, it appears as if the opposition is in control. There's little police presence in the government center of the capitol and it's mostly controlled by the opposition now. Reporters are roaming around everywhere including just recently the president's residence. The speaker of the parliament has resigned, other mps have defected, and the parliament is working on getting a new speaker, PM, Interior Minister, moving elections up to April, and are planning to try for impeachment. No one seems to be able to find the president anywhere, though rumors of various countries he may have fled to are all over twitter. A live feed of the parliament right now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPPxZl43u04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ukrainian-protesters-claim-control-over-capital Ukrainian protesters claim control over capital Protesters in the Ukrainian capital claimed full control of the city Saturday following the signing of a Western-brokered peace deal aimed at ending the nation's three-month political crisis. The nation's embattled president reportedly fled the capital for his support base in Ukraine's Russia-leaning east. Media outlets reported that President Viktor Yanukovych left Kiev for his native eastern Ukraine after surrendering much of his powers and agreeing to early elections this fall. The changes came as part of Friday's deal intended to end violence that killed scores and left hundreds wounded in Kiev this week as snipers opened fire on protesters. Andriy Parubiy, a leader of the protest camp on Independence Square, known as the Maidan, was quoted by the Interfax news agency as saying that Yanukovych fled for Kharkiv, the center of Ukraine's industrial heartland. The claims of the president's departure could not be immediately confirmed, however. Parubiy also said Saturday that protesters are now in full control of the capital. Police on Friday retreated from their positions in Kiev's government district, and the night passed quietly. http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-feb-21-live-updates-337287.html With reports that Yanukovych has fled Ukraine, parliament takes charges of nation today Feb. 22, . 10:52 a.m. Oleh Liashko of the opposition Radical Party: "The president left Ukraine, he's out of the country. So now the Verkhovna Rada needs to oust him because he's unable to fulfill his presidential liability." Yatseniuk seeks 300 votes in parliament Feb. 22, 10:45 a.m. Opposition leader Arseniy Yatseniuk said that parliament needs 300 votes today to take action because President Yanukovych didn't sign the laws which were passed to him yesterday which means that now we need to vote for his resignation. Tiahynbook calls for new presidential election no later than May 25 Feb. 22, 10:30 am.. -- Oleh Tiahnybok, leader of the we need to vote for the new governemnt, set the new date for pres elections, it should be no later than May 25. Rada need to vote for the transformation of central election committee and start judicial reform Turchinov says Yanukovych, most ministers have fled Feb. 22, 10: 28 a.m. -- Former Deputy Prime Minister Oleksandr Turchynov sats that most of the ministers disappeared as well as Interior Minister Vitaly Zakharchenko and President Viktor Yanukovych. "The only one legitimate body left is the Verkhovna Rada - so we are here to vote today. The major tasks for today are: to vote for the new speaker, prime minister and interior minister." https://twitter.com/bishopk is reporting from the presidential palace. http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-feb-21-live-updates-337287.html More Regions deputies defect Feb. 22, 10:59 a.m. --Deputies Olexander Volkov, Olexander Dudka, Artem Shcherban, Viktor Zherebniuk, Vasiliev, Nver Mhitaryan, Ivan Popesku left the Party of Regions. The exodus is picking up steam and means that an anti-Yanukovych majority has formed in parliament. https://twitter.com/myroslavapetsa Yanukovych's adviser Hanna Herman tells @TheDayNewspaper he's indeed in Kharkiv to meet voters, not to participate at separatists' council 4:09 AM 13 more MPs defect from Party of Regions 4:12 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-feb-21-live-updates-337287.html Interior Ministry appears to disavow Yanukovych Feb. 22, 12:28 p.m. The Interior Ministry website posted the following message to all police officers in Ukraine: "Police serve the people of Ukraine and share the people's craving for changes. We bow our heads in memory of the dead." It calls on the public to work with police to keep order. -- Olga Rudenko Turchynov elected speaker with 288 votes, could possibly become acting prime minister; other posts to be decided today Feb. 22, 12:27 p.m. -- With 319 votes out of 450 people, parliament approved a law to prevent separatist movements. It is also expected to appoint Oleksandr Turchynov, the former deputy prime minister and loyalist of imprisoned ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, as speaker of parliament and also acting prime minister. In President Viktor Yanukovych's absence, this could mean that he would run the nation. Other key posts, such as interior minister -- who is in charge of the nation's police -- are expected to be decided today also. Yuriy Miroshnychenko, Yanukovych's representative in parliament, said that parliament must serve eastern Ukraine, not only western Ukraine. Turchynov asked members of parliament from all groups and factions to form a coalition government after return to the 2004 constitution in which parliament has greater powers. -- Katya Gorchinskaya Turchynov appointed acting prime minister Feb. 22, 1:12 p.m. -- In another sign of how the nation is changing power, 314 out of 450 lawmakers voted to elect Batkivshchyna Party opposition leader Oleksandr Turchynov as acting prime minister. Serhiy Tigipko, a member of parliament who defected from the pro-President Viktor Yanukovych Party of Regions, says the appointment of interior minister should await decision by a new parliamentary majority. Yuriy Miroshnychenko, Yanukovych's representative in parliament, warned Ukraine is in danger of creating parallel power structures. https://twitter.com/myroslavapetsa Rada enacts 2004 Constitution after Yanukovych fails to sign yesterday's bill that returns it 6:12 AM Rada gives speaker Turchynov powers of the Cabinet coordinator (acting PM if you will), 318 MPs vote in favor 6:16 AM Another Yulia Tymoshenko's close ally @AvakovArsen appointed acting Interior Minister. 275 MPs vote in favor 6:19 AM https://twitter.com/MaximEristavi One of the top-leaders of revolutionary self-defense guard @AvakovArsen is now Ukraine's new Interior Minister pic.twitter.com/lcBApn1xVJ 6:24 AM .@YuliaTymoshenko is free as of now, the parliament have decided. Will see her at the Maidan today? 6:32 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Putin seeks to bring back the old Soviet Union, or at least as much of it as he can. I don't see him willingly letting Ukraine align itself with the EU. Sorry for those with ties to the Ukraine but this is about to get ugly there. I don't think it's as simple as Putin trying to bring back the old USSR - it's more about his fear/ dislike of unrest and instability right on Russia's borders. He does not want anyone in Russia getting any ideas and he also does not want an unstable regime right on his border. I highly doubt he would send in Russian troops though. What is a worry is if there is an East/West split with Ukraine and civil war breaks out. It looks so far though as if there is not huge support for the current regime even in the East of Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 Support for the president has been surprisingly low in rallies and such in the east so far, but there are some hardcore folks calling for organizing battalions, funding miltias, and creating a new "Soviet Army" at the separatist meeting of delegates in Karkiv. Although there are reportedly thousands of protesters condemning them outside the meeting. Oh and uh...Karkiv is also where Yulia was imprisoned. https://twitter.com/AP BREAKING: A spokeswoman for Yulia Tymoshenko says the former prime minister has been freed from prison. 7:09 AM Concerning though that Russia has some high level delegates at the separatist meeting who are calling for federalization, Russian tv too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 https://twitter.com/BSpringnote Just on Ukrainian tv, Yanik has submitted his resignation and will be read in Parliament shortly. 7:35 AM Yanik resignation news announced on euromaidan protestors going wild 7:36 AM https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak AP: a spokeswoman for Ukraine opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko retracts her statement that the former PM has been freed from prison 7:46 AM https://twitter.com/MillerMENA Ukraine Liveblog: Yanukovych advisor denies that Ukraine President has stepped down http://bit.ly/1gqXZTZ 7:54 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Switchgear Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Hopefully the violence is over and they can start rebuilding, with a better government. It's never a good sign when you dramatically expand your powers and jail the opposition leaders, I'm glad to see Yanukovych is out. If only Syria had gotten rid of Assad as quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Anybody want to get in ANOTHER land war in Asia? Here's our chance. Next, we can get involved in Syria and then open up another front in North Korea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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